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Author Topic: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative  (Read 22330 times)

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #125 on: October 24, 2017, 04:55:49 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on October 24, 2017, 04:43:47 pm
That is freaking hilarious coming from an advocate of tyranny like you, who just said in this very thread that "whatever the SCOTUS says IS the law".

Sorry, but that's just how the Constitution assigns the powers and responsibilities of the three branches of government.    The SCOTUS has the power to interpret and construe the law,  and the Congress has the power to change the law if it disagrees with a SCOTUS ruling.  And with respect to the wall of separation represented by the Establishment Clause, it never has.  That you would deny that design of the Founders suggests that the true advocate of tyranny is you, not me.   

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Offline musiclady

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #126 on: October 24, 2017, 04:56:31 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 04:19:48 pm
Nope.  I'm not arguing penumbras and eminations.  I've arguing for the primacy of the Establishment Clause, rooted in the Founders' concern over religious tyranny.

Now that doesn't mean I agree with every court ruling on the subject.  I don't, for example, see the harm in honoring cultural traditions by displaying a Christmas tree, creche or Menorah in a public square.   That doesn't strike me as the official endorsement of religion, but rather a benign recognition of holidays that are meaningful to a segment of the community.   

Always with the hyperbolic personal attacks.  Sad.


LOL!  I say, "There is nothing Conservative in anything you argue"

And you respond accusing me of "hyperbolic personal attacks."


And still expect anyone to take you seriously??

NOTHING you are arguing is Conservative.

Period.

That is neither exaggerated, nor personal, nor an attack.......... and you, of course, know that.

You seem to be playing a game on every thread where you participate.

And you don't seem to mind that you lose that game every time you play it.

Kinda fascinating study in........................ something very odd.  :seeya:
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #127 on: October 24, 2017, 04:57:52 pm »
 *****rollingeyes*****

Edit - OK, I'll bite, ML - just why is my view that the Establishment Clause erects a wall of separation between church and state not "conservative"?   Why is it "conservative" for the Constitution to permit state endorsement of religion?     
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 05:00:45 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #128 on: October 24, 2017, 04:59:31 pm »
Quote from: Sanguine on October 24, 2017, 02:41:10 pm
Jazzhead, you are remarkably impervious to any point of view other than the one you are currently flogging.  Have you ever learned anything  or taken a well-considered piece of advice from anyone else?  Just curious.

No.  He's just here to push his Leftist/Homosexual/Collectivist agenda while masquerading as a self-described Conservative, which by his own words reveals he is NOT.

He is a tried-and-true Liberal Leftist on almost every single core issue that Conservatives identify with.

That is why he has to lie as often as he does about what it is he is pushing and what he really is.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #129 on: October 24, 2017, 05:00:07 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 04:57:52 pm
*****rollingeyes*****

GREAT retort!

That may be the closest thing to conservatism you've ever displayed.  888high58888
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline TomSea

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #130 on: October 24, 2017, 05:00:09 pm »
The SCOTUS at one time, also okayed slavery. That's how much we need to know about their legislating from the bench.

Then, Judge Roy Moore is participating in the process, he has his voice, I would support it and we might see things change.

I saw one poll where he was up by 1% but what is odd, is I think there is another poll, not discussed as much, where he is up by 11%.

Watch out for push-polling to influence the public.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #131 on: October 24, 2017, 05:02:11 pm »
"the problem isn't with Christ but with Christians."

And Muslims are our friends and neighbors, all one has to know here.

I do admit some 'Christians' bear false witness, are hypocritical too; a lot of what is said here, I think is mainly between 2 posters who disagree with each other.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #132 on: October 24, 2017, 05:02:22 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on October 24, 2017, 04:59:31 pm
No.  He's just here to push his Leftist/Homosexual/Collectivist agenda while masquerading as a self-described Conservative, which by his own words reveals he is NOT.

He is a tried-and-true Liberal Leftist on almost every single core issue that Conservatives identify with.

That is why he has to lie as often as he does about what it is he is pushing and what he really is.

I'm a conservative - but not a social conservative.   If you think that all conservatives are SoCons, then think again.   
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Offline TomSea

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #133 on: October 24, 2017, 05:24:48 pm »
Reading that article in depth: http://www.dailywire.com/news/22591/camp-roy-moore-not-constitutional-conservative-frank-camp

I think there is plenty of leeway and plenty to defend on Roy Moore's opinions. Is the Daily Wire saying Moore is definitely wrong in his opinions? I don't think they can say that in every single case they cite.

"...nor the multiple times he’s spoken on the radio with Kevin Swanson, a pastor who appears to endorse the idea of executing homosexuals."

Okay, that is wrong but it's sort of a side note.

As said, since Christianity has millions and millions of followers in this country alone, you will find some bad apples and this is taking the writer's word, more or less, that Swanson did indeed say this. That is too extreme.

Swanson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Swanson_%28pastor%29
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #134 on: October 24, 2017, 05:29:53 pm »
Quote from: txradioguy on October 24, 2017, 02:46:12 pm
It wasn't written to stop a nativity scene from being placed on the front lawn of city hall...the Ten Commandments from being placed in a court room or to stop a HS football game in Texas from engaging in a prayer before or after the game.

Nor was it meant to be the vehicle of secular humanism - the religion established and promoted right now under the color of law.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #135 on: October 24, 2017, 05:37:42 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 05:02:22 pm
I'm a conservative - but not a social conservative.   If you think that all conservatives are SoCons, then think again.   

I am trying very hard to remember if you've ever uttered a conservative thought the entire time I have been acquainted with you... I literally can't think of a single Conservative thing that you've defended.

Likewise your declared 'christianity'.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #136 on: October 24, 2017, 05:44:57 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 04:24:10 pm
Don't give a damn what you think of me, Sanguine.  I'm having fun engaging in the dialogue, and so are others or they wouldn't keep responding.

Is that what you call it?  No wonder I've been so confused.  If I had realized you were just having fun at our expense I would never have engaged you in any kind of dialog.  I just thought you were lecturing us stupid rubes all this time, turns out you were just having fun.

Confidentially, that's what I think most people who talk to you are doing with you, so I guess that makes all even, having a jolly of a good time.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #137 on: October 24, 2017, 05:45:39 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 04:55:49 pm
Sorry, but that's just how the Constitution assigns the powers and responsibilities of the three branches of government.

"whatever the SCOTUS says IS the law" - Jazzhead 10-24-17   

Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 04:55:49 pm
That you would deny that design of the Founders suggests that the true advocate of tyranny is you, not me.

Says the guy who insists SCOTUS makes law by decree.   

"whatever the SCOTUS says IS the law" - Jazzhead 10-24-17   

Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 05:02:22 pm
I'm a conservative - but not a social conservative.   If you think that all conservatives are SoCons, then think again.   

You are as "Conservative" as you are "Christian", which is to say - your definition of each of those things is so heretical and far apart from the marks, as to make you nothing but an adversary.

But, thankfully the costume you wear is not fooling anyone on this board, you are only fooling yourself in thinking anyone actually believes anything you say.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #138 on: October 24, 2017, 05:45:57 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on October 24, 2017, 05:37:42 pm
I am trying very hard to remember if you've ever uttered a conservative thought the entire time I have been acquainted with you... I literally can't think of a single Conservative thing that you've defended.

Likewise your declared 'christianity'.

Neither can I, in either case.  Thought it was just me.   :shrug:
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #139 on: October 24, 2017, 05:48:02 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on October 24, 2017, 05:45:39 pm
"whatever the SCOTUS says IS the law" - Jazzhead 10-24-17   

Says the guy who insists SCOTUS makes law by decree.   

"whatever the SCOTUS says IS the law" - Jazzhead 10-24-17   

You are as "Conservative" as you are "Christian", which is to say - your definition of each of those things is so heretical and far apart from the marks, as to make you nothing but an adversary.

But, thankfully the costume you wear is not fooling anyone on this board, you are only fooling yourself in thinking anyone actually believes anything you say.

I believe him when he says he's just posts to have fun at our expense.  I guess he's given up on the lecturing thing, although it could be he considers that "fun."
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #140 on: October 24, 2017, 05:54:35 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 02:09:41 pm


Again, do as I did last night and read the Everson opinion.   It was based on the intent of the Founders to establish a secular Republic,  because of the Founders' justified fears of religious tyranny.


The founders had no intention of creating a secular Republic.   They took their action as a pragmatic realization that a coalition of states made with different official Denominations of Christianity would break apart if one was mandated as the "official"  religion.   

It was an effort to keep peace between the states,   not an intent to excise religion from the Federal government.    It was axiomatic that any elected official from any State was going to be a member of one of the Christian Denominations that existed at that time in History.   


It was pragmatism.   You get pragmatism don't you?  As I recall you are one of the dominant advocates of it. 
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #141 on: October 24, 2017, 05:59:56 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 02:12:27 pm
I'm hardly denying the Christian roots of our culture.  But the government is strictly secular - for the reasons, just look to the Founders.


It is not,  nor was it ever intended to be.   

The Declaration of Independence cites God as the source of it's authority. 

The Articles of Confederation cites God as the source of it's authority. 

The US Constitution cites Jesus as the source of it's authority. 

The belief that the founders intended for their to be a secular government is a modern invention cobbled together in the 1940s by the Roosevelt appointed kook judges. 

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #142 on: October 24, 2017, 06:01:37 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on October 24, 2017, 05:45:57 pm
Neither can I, in either case.  Thought it was just me.   :shrug:

No I really mean it - His bias against Judeo-Christianity is on his sleeve, So he rightly claims he is not a social conservative.

He defends FDR judiciary and social programs, so he certainly isn't an original-constructionist or federalist...

He loves big-gov insurance (and other social programs), so that scotches fiscal conservatism...

He does not believe in an unabridged R2KBA - something every Goldwater libertarian and defense conservative would inherently embrace as a first cause...

What other sort of conservatism is left?

@Jazzhead
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #143 on: October 24, 2017, 06:02:09 pm »
Quote from: skeeter on October 24, 2017, 02:20:58 pm
Then our essential rights must originate with men, rather than descend from our creator, right?



And therein lies the seeds of dissolution for the whole thing.   The entire premise of this nation is that God has granted it the right to separate from the United Kingdom.   


The entire concept of "natural law"  is predicated on Christianity.   

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #144 on: October 24, 2017, 06:04:23 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on October 24, 2017, 05:48:02 pm
I believe him when he says he's just posts to have fun at our expense. 

I don't post to "have fun at [your] expense".   I have fun debating the issues of the day - isn't that why you participate here as well?   I have no hidden agenda; my views are my own - and I assume the same for everyone else here. 

 I think this thread has been a good one with lots of constructive dialogue notwithstanding the usual personal attacks from those who can't believe I'm not a false flag (having been on the internet for 15 years now, I'm used to them).     
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #145 on: October 24, 2017, 06:04:53 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on October 24, 2017, 05:29:53 pm
Nor was it meant to be the vehicle of secular humanism - the religion established and promoted right now under the color of law.

Exactly!
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Offline musiclady

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #146 on: October 24, 2017, 06:06:28 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on October 24, 2017, 05:45:57 pm
Neither can I, in either case.  Thought it was just me.   :shrug:

Nope.  It's pretty much all of us.
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #147 on: October 24, 2017, 06:09:04 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on October 24, 2017, 06:04:23 pm
I don't post to "have fun at [your] expense".   I have fun debating the issues of the day - isn't that why you participate here as well?   I have no hidden agenda; my views are my own - and I assume the same for everyone else here. 

 I think this thread has been a good one with lots of constructive dialogue notwithstanding the usual personal attacks from those who can't believe I'm not a false flag (having been on the internet for 15 years now, I'm used to them).   

OK, I'll give you that.  There are just days I don't feel like fencing, and those are the days I put my foil, lame and mask away and stay off certain threads.   :shrug:
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Offline TomSea

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #148 on: October 24, 2017, 06:21:47 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on October 24, 2017, 05:29:53 pm
Nor was it meant to be the vehicle of secular humanism - the religion established and promoted right now under the color of law.

Right on the mark.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: CAMP: Roy Moore Is Not A Constitutional Conservative
« Reply #149 on: October 24, 2017, 06:23:49 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on October 24, 2017, 05:45:39 pm
"whatever the SCOTUS says IS the law" - Jazzhead 10-24-17   

Says the guy who insists SCOTUS makes law by decree.   

"whatever the SCOTUS says IS the law" - Jazzhead 10-24-17   

You are as "Conservative" as you are "Christian", which is to say - your definition of each of those things is so heretical and far apart from the marks, as to make you nothing but an adversary.

But, thankfully the costume you wear is not fooling anyone on this board, you are only fooling yourself in thinking anyone actually believes anything you say.

Wait 'till Kennedy or Breyer retires and/or Ginsberg goes toes up and the balance of the court is tipped back to the right. I suspect SCOTUS will suddenly lose its infallability in JH's mind.
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