Author Topic: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings  (Read 4524 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 384,682
  • Let's Go Brandon!
NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« on: October 05, 2017, 06:23:35 pm »
NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
By Ian Swanson - 10/05/17 02:21 PM EDT

The National Rifle Association in its first statement on the Las Vegas shootings is calling for additional regulations on a device used by the shooter that allows more rounds to be fired by a single pull of the trigger.

The NRA stops short of calling for legislation on "bump stocks," however, and instead urges lawmakers to pass "National Right-to-Carry reciprocity" which it says would allow people to defend themselves.

Here is the full NRA statement:

"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented. 

"Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks. This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world.

In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. 

"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.

"In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans' Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities. 

"To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."

DEVELOPING

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/354081-nra-backs-new-regs-on-device-used-in-vegas-shootings
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,175
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 06:30:47 pm »
Quote
Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions,

I did not know this. 


Quote
"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.

This is difficult to argue with. 


Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 06:35:47 pm »
I did not know this. 


This is difficult to argue with.

If the NRA didn't frequently support gun control I'd be inclined to agree with them.

They supported Clintons ban as well as numerous other anti-gun laws.   
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,175
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 06:56:40 pm »
If the NRA didn't frequently support gun control I'd be inclined to agree with them.

They supported Clintons ban as well as numerous other anti-gun laws.   

What reason is there for turning a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic rifle ... other than to kill a lot of people?

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 07:02:27 pm »
What reason is there for turning a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic rifle ... other than to kill a lot of people?

@Right_in_Virginia
What reason is there to have an electronic email system for communicating?  Or for more than one pair of shoes?   If you are going to start questioning 'need' for Constitutionally protected rights then you should just join the leftists.

Legal automatic weapons have been used in crimes 3 times.   Two of those were by FBI agents.

Automatic weapons are not of much use except in close quarters.    He most likely would have done far more damage with more disciplined semi-automatic fire.  The firearm is much easier to control and keep on target.

Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 07:03:49 pm »
What reason is there for turning a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic rifle ... other than to kill a lot of people?

@Right_in_Virginia
BTW, the 2nd amendment is not about hunting, sport shooting or even self defense.  The 2nd amendment is to allow the people to defend themselves from an out of control government.  Within that scope an automatic weapon is absolutely necessary.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline ConstitutionRose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,474
  • Gender: Female
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 07:26:32 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia
What reason is there to have an electronic email system for communicating?  Or for more than one pair of shoes?   If you are going to start questioning 'need' for Constitutionally protected rights then you should just join the leftists.

Legal automatic weapons have been used in crimes 3 times.   Two of those were by FBI agents.

Automatic weapons are not of much use except in close quarters.    He most likely would have done far more damage with more disciplined semi-automatic fire.  The firearm is much easier to control and keep on target.

My son says a bump stock is inaccurate and makes the gun difficult to handle --like holding onto an angry cat.  I demonstrated to my MIL that we could build one from what we have in the garage.  What are you going to regulate?  Crazy people?
"Old man can't is dead.  I helped bury him."  Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas quoting his grandfather.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 07:28:03 pm »
What reason is there for turning a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic rifle ... other than to kill a lot of people?

Defense, either from an oppressive government or a riot attacking your store.  The second amendment wasn't written for hunting privileges.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,141
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 07:28:38 pm »
My son says a bump stock is inaccurate and makes the gun difficult to handle --like holding onto an angry cat.  I demonstrated to my MIL that we could build one from what we have in the garage.  What are you going to regulate?  Crazy people?

Any decent machinist can convert an AR to full auto. Heck, other than the barrel, any decent machinist could build a full auto rifle from scratch.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 07:31:04 pm »
What reason is there for turning a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic rifle ... other than to kill a lot of people?

Because if you are a responsible gun owner who legally purchases items, as the overwhelming majority are, it is a hell of a lot of fun.  Incidentally, you can achieve the same effect with an elastic band and a little dexterity.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 07:41:11 pm by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2017, 07:46:44 pm »
Also note that this is not some complicated piece of machinery.  It takes little skill to make it yourself.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/06/diy-1022-bumpfire-stock/

Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 08:00:52 pm »
Any decent machinist can convert an AR to full auto. Heck, other than the barrel, any decent machinist could build a full auto rifle from scratch.

@roamer_1
In certain parts of this world (Afghanistan, Pakistan) there are 12 years olds making AK-47s from shovels inside mud huts.   
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,141
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2017, 08:10:02 pm »
@roamer_1
In certain parts of this world (Afghanistan, Pakistan) there are 12 years olds making AK-47s from shovels inside mud huts.

No lie. It isn't rocket science.
A hardened chamber and a rifled barrel would be the hard things to replicate, both in tech and in material. Otherwise it is totally doable.

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 08:17:11 pm »
No lie. It isn't rocket science.
A hardened chamber and a rifled barrel would be the hard things to replicate, both in tech and in material. Otherwise it is totally doable.

A thousand guns a day 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpURk1E3Q9c
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,141
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 08:31:15 pm »
A thousand guns a day 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpURk1E3Q9c

Rednecks is rednecks no matter where you are.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,175
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2017, 08:31:37 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia
BTW, the 2nd amendment is not about hunting, sport shooting or even self defense.  The 2nd amendment is to allow the people to defend themselves from an out of control government.  Within that scope an automatic weapon is absolutely necessary.

Okay.  But why would you use in when not in a war with an out of control government?

How do you feel about legalizing rocket launchers ..... these would be needed in a fight against an out of control government?


« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 08:37:23 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,458
  • Gender: Male
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2017, 10:19:34 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia
BTW, the 2nd amendment is not about hunting, sport shooting or even self defense.  The 2nd amendment is to allow the people to defend themselves from an out of control government.  Within that scope an automatic weapon is absolutely necessary.


You do realize back when the 2nd Amendment was written, the only advance equipment the Government had at the time was the Cannon?  Right now the Military has the capability to shoot someone with a drone.


Trust me the Government is going to win.
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/ and the Eisenhower Caucus: https://EisenhowerCaucus.org

Ronald Reagan: “Rather than...talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems and make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit…earning here they pay taxes here.”

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,175
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2017, 10:29:15 pm »

You do realize back when the 2nd Amendment was written, the only advance equipment the Government had at the time was the Cannon?  Right now the Military has the capability to shoot someone with a drone.  Trust me the Government is going to win.

Well, I hope not. 

I'm trying to point out that better arguments are needed for "bumps" and "suppressors".   :shrug:

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2017, 10:34:42 pm »
Okay.  But why would you use in when not in a war with an out of control government?

How do you feel about legalizing rocket launchers ..... these would be needed in a fight against an out of control government?

You use for entertainment, like 1,000 Hp sports cars that no one needs either.  The difference is that use by individuals is a check on government power.  It won't be a win in an all out war, but it reduces the inclination to line up the unwanted in box cars to prison camps.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,005
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2017, 10:38:58 pm »
What reason is there for turning a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic rifle ... other than to kill a lot of people?
First, it doesn't turn a semi-auto into full auto, despite what is being bandied about.

The trigger still has to be pulled for each round sent downrange.

What DOES happen, is the device makes the act of pulling the trigger more efficient, using recoil to permit the shooter to fire more efficiently than they would be able to do without it, maximizing their semiautomatic rate of fire. Before these devices, people were doing the same thing with a piece of string or para cord, which requires a little more technique, practice, and skill.

Second, its fun to put a lot of rounds downrange at a (nonliving) target, a test of skill, even though that is a sentiment you may not share.
 
As regulations go, once again, the question will arise of if some person will be arrested for having a loose bootlace or loop of parachute line in the same pickup as their rifle.  All they have to do is say "any device" and your finger becomes illegal. Put that decision in the hands of the same agency which approved these devices in the first place, and the potential for vague regulation and capricious enforcement becomes surety--all of which amount to infringements on the RKBA, which, if not present would render possession of these arms downright ordinary instead of a notable exception. Were it not for the current legalities, a select fire rifle would cost little more (or even less) than the current semi-autos do.

One of the first egregious BATFE abuses of power I became aware of came with the use of the 1968 Gun Control Act to kick down the door of Mr. Kenyon Ballew https://topics.revolvy.com/topic/Ken%20Ballew%20raid, and the BATF has been known to abuse its power on numerous occasions, most notably at Mt. Carmel (Waco Texas).

I would submit that these devices are no more dangerous in the hands of those who do no harm to others than a wet noodle. We can't regulate insanity, we can't regulate malice and forethought, for what ever reason.

 This is real life, not Minority Report.

At present it remains entirely possible that one of these could be used for good, too. Eliminate that and only the bad guys will have them.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 10:48:09 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline mrclose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,233
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2017, 10:48:27 pm »
Any decent machinist can convert an AR to full auto. Heck, other than the barrel, any decent machinist could build a full auto rifle from scratch.

I can accomplish the same thing with an ordinary rubber band!
(Maybe even better)
"Hell is empty, all the devil's are here!"
~ Self

Offline mrclose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,233
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2017, 10:50:23 pm »
Okay.  But why would you use in when not in a war with an out of control government?

How do you feel about legalizing rocket launchers ..... these would be needed in a fight against an out of control government?

You can purchase a rocket launcher, tank, F-16 ... legally with enough cash and the patience to do all of the paperwork!
"Hell is empty, all the devil's are here!"
~ Self

Offline mrclose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,233
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2017, 10:52:37 pm »

You do realize back when the 2nd Amendment was written, the only advance equipment the Government had at the time was the Cannon?  Right now the Military has the capability to shoot someone with a drone.


Trust me the Government is going to win.

Not true (Automatic weapons were available) and those cannons were borrowed from the citizens for the most part!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 10:53:31 pm by mrclose »
"Hell is empty, all the devil's are here!"
~ Self

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,409
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2017, 10:57:24 pm »
If the NRA didn't frequently support gun control I'd be inclined to agree with them.

They supported Clintons ban as well as numerous other anti-gun laws.   
Yet you listen to the left and you'd swear the NRA is the boogeyman buying off politicians so they can put an arsenal in every psychotic nutjob's possession.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,409
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
Re: NRA backs new regs on device used in Vegas shootings
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2017, 11:01:40 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia
BTW, the 2nd amendment is not about hunting, sport shooting or even self defense.  The 2nd amendment is to allow the people to defend themselves from an out of control government.  Within that scope an automatic weapon is absolutely necessary.
Really?

Do you think that the government would have put in a clause in its own constitution encouraging a right to violently overthrow itself, when in the same bill of rights it guarantees a right to life and liberty?

The 2nd Amendment is meant to provide for a right of the people to organize and prevent foreign invasion. It also requires that said organization be "well-regulated." You have a right to bear arms, but the government has the right to regulate it. It does not grant a right to use those arms against said government.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024