Author Topic: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay  (Read 99521 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #975 on: October 05, 2017, 05:47:03 pm »
That is worth remarking upon.
canyons, and also high buildings, throw sound around. Not only the echo. Also the originating sound. 

I watched my buddy knock down an elk, and I could have sworn he fired from off to my right/forward... and out he come, from my direct left.

What anyone heard on the ground can't be readily trusted.

@roamer_1
And yet they had him located within about 10 minutes after it started.    They did an excellent job considering the circumstances.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,618
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #976 on: October 05, 2017, 05:48:06 pm »
@Bigun
I'd talk to the police.  I sure wouldn't be going public.  Not only a bad career move but likely to make any prosecution of people who helped him more difficult.

Likely to make any such possible suspects go even further to ground.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,105
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #977 on: October 05, 2017, 05:58:36 pm »
That is worth remarking upon.
canyons, and also high buildings, throw sound around. Not only the echo. Also the originating sound. 

I watched my buddy knock down an elk, and I could have sworn he fired from off to my right/forward... and out he come, from my direct left.

What anyone heard on the ground can't be readily trusted.

 :patriot:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline NavyCanDo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,506
  • Gender: Male
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #978 on: October 05, 2017, 06:02:54 pm »
@roamer_1
And yet they had him located within about 10 minutes after it started.    They did an excellent job considering the circumstances.

Yes they did and if the shooting was sfill going on, the shooter would have been dead on the 11th minute. There was a lot of unfair  criticism at TOS becaue the breach did not happen for over an hour. But we know now that there was grave concern that there was booby traps or an ambush set up becàuse of the cameras, and earlier shots that came through the door striking the security guard. The police handled the clearing of the flood and  textbook breach beautifully.
A nation that turns away from prayer will ultimately find itself in desperate need of it. :Jonathan Cahn

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,909
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #979 on: October 05, 2017, 06:04:59 pm »
@roamer_1
And yet they had him located within about 10 minutes after it started.    They did an excellent job considering the circumstances.

Yeah, that's right. There was a whole lot of trouble coming down, and it is too easy to blame the LEOs for not getting there sooner... That is very unfortunate... I think they did a fine job... And the same to the first responders... Something this big is damn hard to slog through, and folks used to getting immediate satisfaction are unlikely to see the scope of things.

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #980 on: October 05, 2017, 06:07:20 pm »
Yes they did and if the shooting was sfill going on, the shooter would have been dead on the 11th minute. There was a lot of unfair  criticism at TOS becaue the breach did not happen for over an hour. But we know now that there was grave concern that there was booby traps or an ambush set up becàuse of the cameras, and earlier shots that came through the door striking the security guard. The police handled the clearing of the flood and  textbook breach beautifully.

I haven't been to TOS for 6 months and even then it was a mistaken click.   I was wondering about the long delay myself but figured it would be explained.   I dont think we knew he stopped shooting after about 10 mins until yesterday.    He may have been working on his escape at that point.   Not many places to go unless he went out a window.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline NavyCanDo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,506
  • Gender: Male
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #981 on: October 05, 2017, 06:21:07 pm »
I don't know if I should find all the conspiracy nuts ammusing and entertaining, or be disturbed by how many people gravitate to believe this garbage. Here was one posted by  a FB friend. A youtube showing flashes on the 12th floor, claiming the gunfire was actually happening from there and the 32nd floor was all fake. Of course the thread recieved dozens of replies from gullibul people, and the explaination for no broken window, it that it was removed and replaced in the dark of night.
Last night on the news, a reporter with the hotel behind him, guess what could be seen on or about the 12th floor. A flashing strobe light, probably from a wall mounted security or fire protection device. Simple explaination. Unless of course the strobe was put up there by the government as a cover story  for the gunfire flashes :silly:
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 06:21:37 pm by NavyCanDo »
A nation that turns away from prayer will ultimately find itself in desperate need of it. :Jonathan Cahn

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,642
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #982 on: October 05, 2017, 06:24:32 pm »
That article talks of a second shooter on the 29th floor.  Did they use magic bullets that pass through glass without breaking it?


Clearly, the shots came from the grassy knoll on the 29th floor.  That's why you don't see bullet holes.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #983 on: October 05, 2017, 06:25:26 pm »
59 killed, over 500 injured, 22,000 in attendance.

There is every right to know the truth, legitimate questions should be asked, not tasteless conspiracy.

It affects a lot of people.


Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #984 on: October 05, 2017, 06:28:18 pm »
59 killed, over 500 injured, 22,000 in attendance.

There is every right to know the truth, legitimate questions should be asked, not tasteless conspiracy.

It affects a lot of people.

@TomSea
Perhaps, but not if it impedes the investigation.   Good grief they haven't even cleared the scene yet.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #985 on: October 05, 2017, 09:07:51 pm »
@roamer_1
And yet they had him located within about 10 minutes after it started.    They did an excellent job considering the circumstances.

Indeed.   I'd echo the President's word - it was "miraculous".   There's a lot that Las Vegas can be proud of,  in the response of its police, first responders and thousands of citizens.  A community came of age this weekend - that's the silver lining to this tragedy. 

P.S. thanks to all who expressed relief that I'd made it back safely. 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Online DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,345
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #986 on: October 05, 2017, 09:08:00 pm »
I haven't been to TOS for 6 months and even then it was a mistaken click.   I was wondering about the long delay myself but figured it would be explained.   I dont think we knew he stopped shooting after about 10 mins until yesterday.    He may have been working on his escape at that point.   Not many places to go unless he went out a window.

Regarding the long delay time, they had to make sure the best they could that there were no bombs or other booby traps in the hall, etc. The had no idea what they were facing.

Online DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,345
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #987 on: October 05, 2017, 09:09:22 pm »
59 killed, over 500 injured, 22,000 in attendance.

There is every right to know the truth, legitimate questions should be asked, not tasteless conspiracy.

It affects a lot of people.

The 59th killed was the shooter.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,829
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #988 on: October 05, 2017, 09:43:56 pm »
We don't know for a fact that there was a second shooter.  I'm not going to delve into conspiracy theory what if's on stuff like that.  I'm sticking with the facts.  I'll leave the conspiracy theory second shooter false flag stuff for Alex Jones and company.

I understand fields of fire very well.  Which is why I stand by what I said that there would be double the number of KIA and WIA had there been two shooters creating interlocking fields of fire form those two shooting points.  The spacing between platforms with two shooters would have been much more deadly than what ended up happening.  Two shooters...had they planned it right would have divided up those weapons and brought continuous volumes of fire down on that crowd or at the very least one firing while the other reloaded and just alternated in that fashion.

As it is the amount of KIA was and the gaps in times when there was not firing going on indicate to me that he was moving between the two broken windows...firing from one platform...emptying the weapon then moving back to the other firing position.
That makes sense, and I'm not promoting some conspiracy theory.

It doesn't pay me a nickel one way or the other, I just want to get at what happened there.

The graphic I had seen omitted the intervening doorway. If it is inaccurate, it is inaccurate. Thank you for clearing that up. If there is a doorway directly from room to room, that makes it a lot easier/safer to move back and forth, and allows doorways to the hall to be barricaded. The question is: were both doorways barricaded? Was either doorway barricaded? An escape plan might have included going out the other door when the LEOs went in.

I had figured the delays (as long as it took to empty a mag--about 10 seconds) were fumbling with drum magazines, which can be a pain in the rear to change compared to a conventional double-stack 30 round mag. Someone who is excited, shaky because they are doing something From the number of reports in a group on the early videos, I had ruled out a conventional 30 or 40 round magazine because these were taking 10 seconds from start to finish in continuous fire.
The slightly longer delay (17 seconds) would be roughly the time to move from one window to the other and pick up a different (prepositioned) weapon.
 
That continuous fire told me the guy likely wasn't a trained soldier, who would more likely have fired in bursts for better control and to reduce the barrel heating. (Sustained fire like that, as I have been told, is not good for the weapon and can lead to rounds cooking off from the heat. It is only done when there is no alternative.) That may also have just been out of complete disregard for the 'health' of the firearms, and knowing he only had a limited time to get off as many shots as he could, and that he had plenty of other weapons to use.

Someone posted a quick rundown of energy loss over the 350 yards to the crowd. Basically, a 5.56 bullet will have lost half its muzzle energy by the time it arrives, from roughly 1200 ft/lbs to roughly 600 ft. lbs (70 grain bullet, which is heavier than the 55 or 62 grain ones in common use).  A 7.62 bullet will lose about 40% of its initial energy. While still plenty lethal, the amount of penetration, hydraulic shock, and tissue necrosis in a wound (as well as organ damage from the temporary wound cavity) will be less than had the shooter been at close range. This, too may have been a factor in reducing the number of KIA vs WIA, and many of the accounts show those killed as having multiple wounds or having been hit in the head. For the person in the crowd, it was a complete crap shoot whether they got hit or not.

Despite the telescopic sight which might have initially put him on target or allowed him to see the effects of his fire, I do not think he was targeting specific individuals once he got the range.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,829
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #989 on: October 05, 2017, 09:52:14 pm »
That is worth remarking upon.
canyons, and also high buildings, throw sound around. Not only the echo. Also the originating sound. 

I watched my buddy knock down an elk, and I could have sworn he fired from off to my right/forward... and out he come, from my direct left.

What anyone heard on the ground can't be readily trusted.
True enough. I was walking down a streamside trail in West Virginia when it suddenly sounded like the guy walking behind me was speaking from in front of me. It worked both ways. We stopped and looked around, and across the little creek was a small anticline in the limestone with the middle hollowed out forming a natural parabolic reflector that made the sound seem to be coming from an entirely different point.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,909
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #990 on: October 05, 2017, 11:31:15 pm »
True enough. I was walking down a streamside trail in West Virginia when it suddenly sounded like the guy walking behind me was speaking from in front of me. It worked both ways. We stopped and looked around, and across the little creek was a small anticline in the limestone with the middle hollowed out forming a natural parabolic reflector that made the sound seem to be coming from an entirely different point.

Add a little panic, and a bunch of high powered show lights, and shazzam blinky shit, and...

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,105
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #991 on: October 05, 2017, 11:32:04 pm »
That makes sense, and I'm not promoting some conspiracy theory.

It doesn't pay me a nickel one way or the other, I just want to get at what happened there.

The graphic I had seen omitted the intervening doorway. If it is inaccurate, it is inaccurate. Thank you for clearing that up. If there is a doorway directly from room to room, that makes it a lot easier/safer to move back and forth, and allows doorways to the hall to be barricaded. The question is: were both doorways barricaded? Was either doorway barricaded? An escape plan might have included going out the other door when the LEOs went in.


 ...snip




Seems there is an adjoining door to the corner wrap-around room.  That room also has its own access to the hallway, where he had set up security cameras to warn him of anyone approaching his suite at the end of the hall.

"That room" also serves as the suite's bedroom, according to the foot print.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 11:33:43 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,829
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #992 on: October 05, 2017, 11:43:57 pm »
Add a little panic, and a bunch of high powered show lights, and shazzam blinky shit, and...
And a band playing. I thought I heard a comment on one of the videos asking where it was coming from. Confusion works against the targeted and in favor of the terrorist. OTOH, that may have kept the crowd from all stampeding in one direction, and that may have saved lives in the long run.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,829
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #993 on: October 05, 2017, 11:44:55 pm »


Seems there is an adjoining door to the corner wrap-around room.  That room also has its own access to the hallway, where he had set up security cameras to warn him of anyone approaching his suite at the end of the hall.

"That room" also serves as the suite's bedroom, according to the foot print.
Thanks.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #994 on: October 05, 2017, 11:45:09 pm »
Some video from a different viewpoint from inside Mandalay Bay.  Different angle and higher elevation, but similar to the perspective the shooter would have had.  Fortunately, the phone camera cannot zoom in to provide clear detail, or it'd be more graphic.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4EKXzZqcKM
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,105
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,909
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #996 on: October 05, 2017, 11:53:05 pm »
And a band playing. I thought I heard a comment on one of the videos asking where it was coming from. Confusion works against the targeted and in favor of the terrorist. OTOH, that may have kept the crowd from all stampeding in one direction, and that may have saved lives in the long run.

That's right. But there was no where to go... I am not much for crowds, a lot for that reason... this didn't change my mind.

Offline Suppressed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,921
  • Gender: Male
    • Avatar
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #997 on: October 06, 2017, 01:40:39 am »
Someone has stitched together the leaked photos of the room, but I'm just posting the link because it includes the graphic headshot.  Click at your own discretion...


https://i.imgur.com/b1roJKZ.jpg
+++++++++
“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Suppressed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,921
  • Gender: Male
    • Avatar
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #998 on: October 06, 2017, 04:56:22 am »
Now, it would seem he cased the Lollapalooza event in Chicago back in August.

He was a no-show on those rooms.

He had also searched for hotels overlooking Fenway Park in Boston, according to the same report, but didn't book.
+++++++++
“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,180
Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #999 on: October 06, 2017, 10:32:45 am »
Someone has stitched together the leaked photos of the room, but I'm just posting the link because it includes the graphic headshot.  Click at your own discretion...


https://i.imgur.com/b1roJKZ.jpg

I've seen worse. Frankly I enjoy the headshot of that scumbag. He even got off easy.