Poll: 76 percent of voters say 'Dreamers' should be allowed to stay

[Emjay]

Good catch @XenaLee, a favorite trick of the left is bait and switch. Claiming H1B visa holders are the same as illegals brought here as minors is absurd.

The magnitude of deporting all of these people is daunting.  On the other hand, they should not be allowed ill-gotten citizenship while law abiding people have waited years.

How about if they're put on some kind of probation.  Any kind of misstep and they are gone.

[Jazzhead]

You could say that about some people but certainly not XenaLee.

I'm torn about this thing.  These people are here as the result of a crime and have certainly benefited from that original crime.  If you don't think they have, then what are we talking about.

They are at no moral fault.   There are here because of the "sins" of their parents, and in many cases have become cultural Americans,  responsible, English-speaking and hard-working.

Yes,  I advocate compassion towards these folks.  The DACA requires they continue their education or serve in the military,  and otherwise be a credit to their communities.

Yes,  Obama should not have addressed this by means of an executive order.   Congress needs to act, and President Trump is giving them six months to do so.   

[Jazzhead]

You know y'all are essentially arguing with @Jazzhead The Dreamer.  I don't know his age, but he told us his daddy came her illegally, so what does that make him?  Perhaps legal now, but perhaps not.  Do you think a dreamer is going to agree that he should not be here?

I am 60 years old, and the person I spoke of was my father-in-law.  My wife's family is a true immigrant success story - all eight kids went to college, and each and every one of 'em are paying more in taxes than you do, I'll bet.   

[XenaLee]

Never mind, XenaLee.   There's no use trying to appease the willfully ignorant.

You sound like a leftie there, Jazzhead.  That is their go-to typical and usual response if/when they can't back up their bullshit.  Just sayin....

And there's also this... from that same article.

Little research has been done on the effects of DACA itself, which is why we have chosen to extrapolate the program’s economic impact from the research done on holders of H-1B visas, who are demographically similar to workers in the DACA program, as well as from the numerous studies on the economic effects of undocumented immigration generally.

[XenaLee]

You know y'all are essentially arguing with @Jazzhead The Dreamer.  I don't know his age, but he told us his daddy came her illegally, so what does that make him?  Perhaps legal now, but perhaps not.  Do you think a dreamer is going to agree that he should not be here?

That explains a lot, RoosGirl.  Thanks for the illustrative tip.   ^-^

[Silver Pines]

Obviously we disagree on the essential morality of compassion.   But check out the Cato article I linked to above.   Even if compassion doesn't occupy one small bit of your soul,  the economic benefits of the DACA enrollees, working legally and productively,  justify the program.

@Jazzhead

No.  We disagree on two things. Firstly, that it's our problem as a nation to mop up after people who broke the law.  They made a poor choice, and there are consequences for that.  Too bad they didn't stop and think about their kids.

Secondly, that you're a condescending, self-satisfied, virtue-signaling leftist who gets off on believing you're so much better than everyone who doesn't base every thought on emotion.

I mean, I guess we disagree on that, unless you're unusually self-aware...

[RoosGirl]

I am 60 years old, and the person I spoke of was my father-in-law.  My wife's family is a true immigrant success story - all eight kids went to college, and each and every one of 'em are paying more in taxes than you do, I'll bet.

If your FIL came here illegally like you say they are not a TRUE immigrant success story.  A TRUE immigrant success story is one where people came here legally like they were supposed to.

You bet they're paying more in taxes than I do, I'm a stay at home mom now.  So what?  My great grandparents came here through Ellis from Russia (Poland) and Austria.  Legally.

[bilo]

Strike three will be in 2018 when the GOP loses their majority in Congress due to having struck out with voters over their constant LIES.  The loss of the entire game will be in 2020....when disgusted non-leftist voters (formerly GOPers) just stay home and let the Democrats have at it.

The Pubs are making it real clear that there is no point in supporting them. All they tell us are lies. They just advance the leftist agenda a little slower.

[Emjay]

I am 60 years old, and the person I spoke of was my father-in-law.  My wife's family is a true immigrant success story - all eight kids went to college, and each and every one of 'em are paying more in taxes than you do, I'll bet.

Whatever your heritage is, you should not be attacked for it or have to defend it.  Not here.  Not ever.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead

.

Secondly, that you're a condescending, self-satisfied, virtue-signaling leftist who gets off on believing you're so much better than everyone who doesn't base every thought on emotion.

The Cato article I linked to justified the DACA program economically, without emotion.   Your take on the DACA, which is essentially to tell these folks to go screw themselves, is the one based on emotion.   

[Jazzhead]

If your FIL came here illegally like you say they are not a TRUE immigrant success story.  A TRUE immigrant success story is one where people came here legally like they were supposed to.

You bet they're paying more in taxes than I do, I'm a stay at home mom now.  So what?  My great grandparents came here through Ellis from Russia (Poland) and Austria.  Legally.

My FIL came here over 70 years ago.  I honestly don't know whether he first came here legally or illegally;  he has been here legally for as long as I have known him (almost 40 years).   



 

[DCPatriot]

Poll: 76 percent of voters say 'Dreamers' should be allowed to stay

And, at 7:30pm on November 8, 2016, Hillary Clinton had an 80.2% chance of winning the Election.

[GtHawk]

My FIL came here over 70 years ago.  I honestly don't know whether he first came here legally or illegally;  he has been here legally for as long as I have known him (almost 40 years).   



 

Then your argument with him as an example is specious. I am first generation and my parents came here with seven dollars and change in their pocket and not speaking English,   but they came here legally as so many others from so many other nations, and they waited years in a war torn country to do it as so many others had. They worked hard bought and paid for several homes without ever taking a penny they didn't earn from the taxpayer, they were a success story. I will never be persuaded that anyone that entered the country illegally should be gifted with Citizenship. Now, if they return to their country of origin, get in line and follow all the proper laws for legal entry and residence in America it would be a different thing. Gifting these children, what a broad ridiculous definition, with something others suffered to achieve is morally repugnant.

[Emjay]

That explains a lot, RoosGirl.  Thanks for the illustrative tip.   ^-^

I'm glad @Jazzhead is here.  He may be liberal on a lot of social issues but he presents a different viewpoint and does it without hate or profanity.

We used to call the Republicans a Big Tent party, but some of us want to kick others out of the tent because they don't agree on social issues.

[Emjay]

Look, people.  Brag about who you are now, not your ancestry.  I spent a lot of wasted time on genealogy.  My ancestors DID come over on the Mayflower and the other side came over in the 1600's as Baptist missionaries from Wales.

Does that make me some kind of wonderful?  I wish.

[Jazzhead]

Thanks, Emjay - I appreciate it.

[DCPatriot]

Thanks, Emjay - I appreciate it.

 

[RoosGirl]

Look, people.  Brag about who you are now, not your ancestry.  I spent a lot of wasted time on genealogy.  My ancestors DID come over on the Mayflower and the other side came over in the 1600's as Baptist missionaries from Wales.

Does that make me some kind of wonderful?  I wish.

No one is bragging about their ancestry.  You're starting down the path of that same bullshit argument that some people here are "holier than thou" because we tell pragmatists to kiss our rears.

[Silver Pines]

The Cato article I linked to justified the DACA program economically, without emotion.   Your take on the DACA, which is essentially to tell these folks to go screw themselves, is the one based on emotion.

@Jazzhead

So if I believe there should be consequences for poor choices, especially illegal ones, it's a view based on emotion.

But your belief that we should dismiss the consequences in order to show compassion---an emotion---is not.

[RoosGirl]

@Jazzhead

So if I believe there should be consequences for poor choices, especially illegal ones, it's a view based on emotion.

But your belief that we should dismiss the consequences in order to show compassion---an emotion---is not.

Smells like liberal logic to me.

[jmyrlefuller]

These aren't illegals working in the underground economy; they are above-board employees who've earned their jobs and their salaries based on merit.   They haven't "taken jobs" that could have gone to others; they've earned them, fair and square.  And they pay taxes - even though they don't qualify for many benefit programs.   

So if those people were back in the country of their lawful citizenship, not a single American would have qualified for those all-too-rare quality jobs? Tell that to the underemployed guy with a bachelor's degree in a STEM field working night-shift, grunt-level work at minimum wage because that's the only job he can find even though, in theory, he should qualify for far better than that.

Those aliens are not irreplaceable.

[Silver Pines]

Look, people.  Brag about who you are now, not your ancestry.  I spent a lot of wasted time on genealogy.  My ancestors DID come over on the Mayflower and the other side came over in the 1600's as Baptist missionaries from Wales.

Does that make me some kind of wonderful?  I wish.

@Emjay

Hardly.

If someone is proud of his ancestry it shouldn't bother you, and I notice that in scolding those who are, you managed to work in mention of your own.   

They can brag as much as they want.  It's interesting.

[Silver Pines]

Smells like liberal logic to me.

@RoosGirl

In other words, no logic at all.

[Wingnut]

Look, people.  Brag about who you are now, not your ancestry.  I spent a lot of wasted time on genealogy.  My ancestors DID come over on the Mayflower and the other side came over in the 1600's as Baptist missionaries from Wales.

Does that make me some kind of wonderful?  I wish.

My ancestry is 100 percent Heinz 57 American Mutt.   That is all I need to know.   You all want to trace your roots back to some cornhole poker in Mesopotamia.   Have at it.

[Emjay]

My ancestry is 100 percent Heinz 57 American Mutt.   That is all I need to know.   You all want to trace your roots back to some cornhole poker in Mesopotamia.   Have at it.

Ha, ha.  We're better off not knowing about ALL of our ancestors.  I know there are a lot of drunks in my family ...