Poll: 76 percent of voters say 'Dreamers' should be allowed to stay

[bilo]

I think we already have, they just put a different label on the jar.

You're right. The Pubs aren't all that different than the Rats. The results end up pretty close. The difference is the Pubs represent the corporations with the lobbyists and the chamber of commerce. The Rats represent the govt employee unions and people dependent on govt hand outs. No one represents the freedom loving individual who just wants to be left alone and allowed to sink or swim on his/her own merits.

[bilo]

The third strike comes in a couple of batters' boxes.

Sure, they're just about three up three down now

In previous games they told us they needed the House. So we gave it to them. Strike one.
They told us they needed the Senate, too. We gave it to them. Strike two.
They told us they needed the White House, or they just couldn't do it. We (the voters, collectively) gave it to them...
Lining up for strike three.

I'm with you. Pres. Trump started out well enough, but increasingly we see the NY liberal side coming out. Also, he is inept with the legislative side of things. I think his response on Harvey has been great. His nomination of Gorsuch looks to be very good. His handling of foreign policy has been pretty good. The big things though have all come up zeroes so far.

[anubias]

You sure as hell have no idea.   DACA enrollees are employed and paying taxes.

And receiving public benefits such as federal grants to attend college, not to mention all the other bennies received by Mom while in their minority.

[Jazzhead]

And receiving public benefits such as federal grants to attend college, not to mention all the other beanies received by Mom while in their minority.

You have no idea what you're talking about.  These folks don't qualify for most public benefits - but they pay the same taxes as you.   

[aligncare]

Following is my analysis, not necessarily my stance, so save your fire.

Americans will not blame minors for the sins of their parents, bottom line. So, congress will have to act and some compromise reached between all concerned so that these people who, through no fault of their own – some not even Spanish speakers, are trapped in the middle of immigration law.

Secondly, Americans will blame – and quite rightfully – congress, both parties, including the bureaucratic state ("the swamp"). It was they that, by their fecklessness in failing to act in a timely manner and in Americans best interests, kicked the can along for a minimum 30-years.

Congress bears nearly the entire blame; people who vote mindlessly for their congressman and senator share the remainder.

[Jazzhead]

Following is my analysis, not necessarily my stance, so save your fire.

Americans will not blame minors for the sins of their parents, bottom line. So, congress will have to act and some compromise reached between all concerned so that these people who, through no fault of their own – some not even Spanish speakers, are trapped in the middle of immigration law.

Secondly, Americans will blame – and quite rightfully – congress, both parties, including the bureaucratic state ("the swamp"). It was they that, by their fecklessness in failing to act in a timely manner and in Americans best interests, kicked the can along for a minimum 30-years.

Congress bears nearly the entire blame; people who vote mindlessly for their congressman and senator share the remainder.

Agreed.  The DACA came about to address a perceived injustice that Congress refused to address.  Congress now has six months to get its act together to replace an executive order with legislation.   

[Smokin Joe]

Following is my analysis, not necessarily my stance, so save your fire.

Americans will not blame minors for the sins of their parents, bottom line. So, congress will have to act and some compromise reached between all concerned so that these people who, through no fault of their own – some not even Spanish speakers, are trapped in the middle of immigration law.

Secondly, Americans will blame – and quite rightfully – congress, both parties, including the bureaucratic state ("the swamp"). It was they that, by their fecklessness in failing to act in a timely manner and in Americans best interests, kicked the can along for a minimum 30-years.

Congress bears nearly the entire blame; people who vote mindlessly for their congressman and senator share the remainder.

Does that include the people who voted for 'the lesser evil'?

[skeeter]

You have no idea what you're talking about.  These folks don't qualify for most public benefits - but they pay the same taxes as you.

Really? They don't qualify for benefits in many states? You need to spend a little time in California.

[Smokin Joe]

Really? They don't qualify for benefits in many states? You need to spend a little time in California.

No set-asides, no quotas? No "diversity" edicts to comply with? I'd think 'sanctuary' jurisdictions would have all that and more.

[aligncare]

Agreed.  The DACA came about to address a perceived injustice that Congress refused to address.  Congress now has six months to get its act together to replace an executive order with legislation.   

Trump hit the exact right note here. He's forcing their hand. It's now up to congress to act – after the customary congressional 5 1/2 months of pussyfooting. 

[anubias]

You have no idea what you're talking about.  These folks don't qualify for most public benefits - but they pay the same taxes as you.

You are full of it. I personally know several whose fathers made more money in cash than the average American, while the average American paid for all the bennies the moms received so that the daddies got to keep all his cash. Then we educated their children through federal grants.  Those kids now pay taxes, but at what cost?

[XenaLee]

These aren't illegals working in the underground economy; they are above-board employees who've earned their jobs and their salaries based on merit.  They haven't "taken jobs" that could have gone to others; they've earned them, fair and square.  And they pay taxes - even though they don't qualify for many benefit programs.   

.

That sounds like pure speculation on your part (in other words....bullchit).  Since... you have no way of knowing that for a fact.  Where, exactly, are the stats and facts to back up your wild-ass claim?  I'd like to see them.  The US gov, under Barack Hussein Obama, dispersed those "kids" all over the country.  No way in Hell would the gov be keeping track of their progress, like adoptees, at this point.  I posit that the leftists wanted them to just disappear off the radar... only to appear at the voting booths at election time....illegally, of course.

[bigheadfred]

According to a 2013 Heritage Foundation report the net deficit for illegals was $55 billion--after taxes. You can't tell me I don't know, @Jazzhead. Do you understand? Those "tax-paying" illegals cost this country. Period.

[XenaLee]

The third strike comes in a couple of batters' boxes.

Sure, they're just about three up three down now

In previous games they told us they needed the House. So we gave it to them. Strike one.
They told us they needed the Senate, too. We gave it to them. Strike two.
They told us they needed the White House, or they just couldn't do it. We (the voters, collectively) gave it to them...
Lining up for strike three.

Strike three will be in 2018 when the GOP loses their majority in Congress due to having struck out with voters over their constant LIES.  The loss of the entire game will be in 2020....when disgusted non-leftist voters (formerly GOPers) just stay home and let the Democrats have at it.

[Silver Pines]

These aren't illegals working in the underground economy; they are above-board employees who've earned their jobs and their salaries based on merit.   They haven't "taken jobs" that could have gone to others; they've earned them, fair and square.  And they pay taxes - even though they don't qualify for many benefit programs.   

.

@Jazzhead

Their parents broke the law to bring them here.  Therefore they shouldn't be here and those jobs don't belong to them.  Blame the parents for whatever they have to deal with. 

[starstruck]

Trump hit the exact right note here. He's forcing their hand. It's now up to congress to act – after the customary congressional 5 1/2 months of pussyfooting. 

So they'll pass something that says we will let you stay this time but don't let it happen again. Trump will sign it. 25 years from now we will be going through the same thing.

The beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de de, la de da de da

[Jazzhead]

That sounds like pure speculation on your part (in other words....bullchit).  Since... you have no way of knowing that for a fact.  Where, exactly, are the stats and facts to back up your wild-ass claim?  I'd like to see them.  The US gov, under Barack Hussein Obama, dispersed those "kids" all over the country.  No way in Hell would the gov be keeping track of their progress, like adoptees, at this point.  I posit that the leftists wanted them to just disappear off the radar... only to appear at the voting booths at election time....illegally, of course.

The Economic and Fiscal Impact of Repealing DACA

Is the Cato Institute a good enough source for ya?   It is for me. 

 

However, a repeal or roll-back of DACA would harm the economy and cost the U.S. government a significant amount of lost tax revenue. We estimate that the fiscal cost of immediately deporting the approximately 750,000 people currently in the DACA program would be over $60 billion to the federal government along with a $280 billion reduction in economic growth over the next decade.

There are valid reasons to be concerned about unauthorized immigration in the United States. The DACA program, however, screens out anyone with a criminal past as part of its core eligibility requirements. DACA participants are not eligible for means-tested welfare benefits or Obamacare subsidies.

Since DACA applicants pay their own processing fees, the program itself does not have an administrative cost, and so the only costs we need to evaluate are those that stem from having these people in the country in the first place. We submit that any such costs are far outweighed by the benefits that come from immigrants who are able to work openly and legally, pay taxes, support entitlement programs, create jobs, innovate, and sire children who will one day do the same.

The deportation of DACA participants would cost the American economy billions of dollars, as well as billions of tax dollars foregone, while doing little to address the true concerns that Americans may have about unauthorized immigrants.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead

Their parents broke the law to bring them here.  Therefore they shouldn't be here and those jobs don't belong to them.  Blame the parents for whatever they have to deal with.

Obviously we disagree on the essential morality of compassion.   But check out the Cato article I linked to above.   Even if compassion doesn't occupy one small bit of your soul,  the economic benefits of the DACA enrollees, working legally and productively,  justify the program.

[Jazzhead]

According to a 2013 Heritage Foundation report the net deficit for illegals was $55 billion--after taxes. You can't tell me I don't know, @Jazzhead. Do you understand? Those "tax-paying" illegals cost this country. Period.

You couldn't be more wrong.  Check out the Cato Institute article linked above.   The DACA enrollees are willing and able to work hard, and contribute lawfully to the community just as you do.   And they don't even qualify for the welfare programs that you do.   

[jpsb]

The Economic and Fiscal Impact of Repealing DACA

Is the Cato Institute a good enough source for ya?   It is for me.

No Cato is a open border globalist Libertarian org.

[XenaLee]

The Economic and Fiscal Impact of Repealing DACA

Is the Cato Institute a good enough source for ya?   It is for me.

No.  It's not good enough.  Not by a long shot. 

Did you even bother to READ the article you presented as an answer to my question???  Apparently not.  I asked for stats and facts on actual DACA recipients.  And I didn't mean a small percentage of them.  TCI didn't posit facts on DACA recipients.  They instead used H1B visa folks as a benchmark.  WTF???

We instead looked for another group that might more closely resemble the demographic characteristics of those in the DACA program whose economic and budgetary impacts on the economy is well established: the recipients of H-1B visas, which are issued to skilled workers who are invited into the country to fulfill specific economic needs.

I suspect the reason WHY they used H-1B visa folks for their BS is because I am correct re: that most (again, not a small percentage of) DACA recipients have dropped off of the radar and the gov has NO IDEA what they make, how they live or even IF they are working for a living (much less paying taxes).

Prove me wrong....if you can.... @Jazzhead

[Jazzhead]

Never mind, XenaLee.   There's no use trying to appease the willfully ignorant.   

[jpsb]

No.  It's not good enough.  Not by a long shot. 

Did you even bother to READ the article you presented as an answer to my question???  Apparently not.  I asked for stats and facts on actual DACA recipients.  And I didn't mean a small percentage of them.  TCI didn't posit facts on DACA recipients.  They instead used H1B visa folks as a benchmark.  WTF???

Good catch @XenaLee, a favorite trick of the left is bait and switch. Claiming H1B visa holders are the same as illegals brought here as minors is absurd.

[Emjay]

Never mind, XenaLee.   There's no use trying to appease the willfully ignorant.

You could say that about some people but certainly not XenaLee.

I'm torn about this thing.  These people are here as the result of a crime and have certainly benefited from that original crime.  If you don't think they have, then what are we talking about.

[RoosGirl]

You know y'all are essentially arguing with @Jazzhead The Dreamer.  I don't know his age, but he told us his daddy came her illegally, so what does that make him?  Perhaps legal now, but perhaps not.  Do you think a dreamer is going to agree that he should not be here?