House GOP eyeing $1B disaster funds cut to finance wall

[IsailedawayfromFR]

So a lifetime of striving and responsibility is trumped by original sin? 

Absolutely.  If you ever read the Bible, that starts in Genesis and continues throughout.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No question the law needs to be fixed. 

Nope, all it needs is to be enforced.

A very simple solution.

[Emjay]

There won't be a wall, so fighting about it is a waste of time.

Oh, there will be a wall.  It won't completely cover the border but it can and will be built in some key places.

[jpsb]

There won't be a wall, so fighting about it is a waste of time.

So you leave your doors open all night every night right?

[RoosGirl]

So you leave your doors open all night every night right?

That's not just a jump to conclusion, it's a leap off a mountain.

[roamer_1]

Oh, there will be a wall.  It won't completely cover the border but it can and will be built in some key places.

There may be a section of wall to point at, but there won't be a wall. There was never going to be a wall... Y'all waltzed right down the garden path. And you will again when he blames [whoever] for not getting the wall done.

[roamer_1]

So you leave your doors open all night every night right?

Well yeah, I do... but what's that to do with you guys getting stars in your eyes and voting in a NY liberal who isn't going to do what he said?

[bigheadfred]

That's not just a jump to conclusion, it's a leap off a mountain.

It was a trick question caused I answered it in my head with a yes.

[Smokin Joe]

Drama queen.

I see nothing in that post to take issue with. Do you honestly believe that there are only (still) the 11 million illegals in the US? The 11 million we were told about decades ago? Or do they rotate out after making their bundle and go home, not leaving progeny? Is that same bunch why we have ESL classes in NORTH DAKOTA, why we press "dos" for espanol, why owners manuals that  once had exploded view diagrams and parts lists instead are half or more in some language other that English?
Seriously, do you think someone who can't read English can begin to comprehend the nuances present in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights?


Quote from: skeeter on Today at 12:30:32 PM
   

Anyone who cannot see that there are already forces at work who seek to disenfranchise traditionally minded Americans (not to be confused with republicans) in their own land, and that massive immigration both legal and illegal is part of that effort, is hopelessly naive or just plain dishonest.

    Another amnesty, and this one will be huge, will be the icing on that cake.

    At this stage it seems silly to even have to point it out.

Is spot on.

[bigheadfred]

If you have a job or are in an industry that isn't negatively impacted by illegals then I doubt you can see the harm. IMO, that doesn't give you a leg to stand on in the debate. That is all.

[Smokin Joe]

Nope, all it needs is to be enforced.

A very simple solution.

This. If people don't like the law, they can break it at their own risk (Civil Disobedience) and seek to have the law changed, but they should be prosecuted for violating it nonetheless until such time as it is no longer in effect. Unfortunately, the law in regards illegal immigrants has a long history of being broken, and has had national significance since "Operation Wetback" under the Eisenhower Administration.
Think about that for a second.

Seven generations of my family (from my great-grandparents to my great-grand children) have lived in the time that this was a not only a known, but officially admitted problem. If one tenth of a mile a day had been constructed, the wall (fence, or other barrier) could have been built several times over.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Seriously, do you think someone who can't read English can begin to comprehend the nuances present in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights?

I don't know.  Some of the kids I grew up with who struggled and basically got left behind in grade school math could give lectures on the EITC not too many years later.

I'd bet a lot of the people who "can't read English" suddenly can when it comes time to sign up for government benefits.

[That's not an argument with you comment, just a slightly offtopic observation]

[RetBobbyMI]

For those against a wall at the border, ponder this. Whether it be a wall, or a standing Army or a million miles of technology backup by an Army, it will cost many many billions. The alternative is to do nothing and the cartels of central Mexico and other lunatics from who knows where will have free reign throughout this country. Then what?

[Smokin Joe]

For those against a wall at the border, ponder this. Whether it be a wall, or a standing Army or a million miles of technology backup by an Army, it will cost many many billions. The alternative is to do nothing and the cartels of central Mexico and other lunatics from who knows where will have free reign throughout this country. Then what?

From roughly 770 BC to the 1600s, some folks who built walls not only expressed their territorial intent and desire to not be invaded, they left that legacy carved in stone. Though those fortifications were modified and reconfigured during that time, they stood as a barrier, a border, and a legacy for those who would follow. https://www.chinahighlights.com/greatwall/history/

No matter how many troops had walked that boundary, nor how many eyes had scanned the lands beyond it, nor how few might, with the vagaries of time and leadership, have patrolled that border, the wall stood as an enduring statement that the land inside it was theirs, and for invaders to stay beyond it.

Had the wall not been there, all that would have been left for posterity would have been well worn footpaths, some scattered campsites and detritus, and the ongoing expenditure of treasure, manpower, and, in the end, political will to keep invaders at bay.

A virtual wall will leave virtually nothing if the vagaries of political intent remove funding. A physical barrier will endure, can be repaired or modified, and will continue to exist--and more likely, so will the country within it.

[RetBobbyMI]

From roughly 770 BC to the 1600s, some folks who built walls not only expressed their territorial intent and desire to not be invaded, they left that legacy carved in stone. Though those fortifications were modified and reconfigured during that time, they stood as a barrier, a border, and a legacy for those who would follow. https://www.chinahighlights.com/greatwall/history/

No matter how many troops had walked that boundary, nor how many eyes had scanned the lands beyond it, nor how few might, with the vagaries of time and leadership, have patrolled that border, the wall stood as an enduring statement that the land inside it was theirs, and for invaders to stay beyond it.

Had the wall not been there, all that would have been left for posterity would have been well worn footpaths, some scattered campsites and detritus, and the ongoing expenditure of treasure, manpower, and, in the end, political will to keep invaders at bay.

A virtual wall will leave virtually nothing if the vagaries of political intent remove funding. A physical barrier will endure, can be repaired or modified, and will continue to exist--and more likely, so will the country within it.

Well stated! And I might also add that even Armies use physical barriers.  There is virtually no ligit reason to be against a wall.

[Applewood]

For those against a wall at the border, ponder this. Whether it be a wall, or a standing Army or a million miles of technology backup by an Army, it will cost many many billions. The alternative is to do nothing and the cartels of central Mexico and other lunatics from who knows where will have free reign throughout this country. Then what?

For me -- yes, it is important that we deal with this invasion of illegals and pseudo-refugees.  Should have been done a long time ago, but we have had so-called leaders who have done nothing about the problem and some who have actually encouraged this invasion. 

But it seems that now the issue is, do we spend the money on this wall or in helping our own citizens who have lost everything in Harvey?  A terrible choice, but right now -- having seen images of the destruction and loss wrought by Harvey -- if we have to make this awful choice -- I say, give the money to help the victims of Harvey first.  The wall can wait.  In the meantime, we have other options for dealing with the foreign invasion, chiefly, enforcement of existing laws and ending Obama-era measures that encouraged this invasion. This president can act on at least some of this without congress and in fact, he has made a few moves in that direction already.  It's time for him to continue with the executive  orders on immigration and at the same time, work with congress to get that aid to Harvey victims pronto.

[Smokin Joe]

For me -- yes, it is important that we deal with this invasion of illegals and pseudo-refugees.  Should have been done a long time ago, but we have had so-called leaders who have done nothing about the problem and some who have actually encouraged this invasion. 

But it seems that now the issue is, do we spend the money on this wall or in helping our own citizens who have lost everything in Harvey?  A terrible choice, but right now -- having seen images of the destruction and loss wrought by Harvey -- if we have to make this awful choice -- I say, give the money to help the victims of Harvey first.  The wall can wait.  In the meantime, we have other options for dealing with the foreign invasion, chiefly, enforcement of existing laws and ending Obama-era measures that encouraged this invasion. This president can act on at least some of this without congress and in fact, he has made a few moves in that direction already.  It's time for him to continue with the executive  orders on immigration and at the same time, work with congress to get that aid to Harvey victims pronto.

Sorry, I'm feeling like Mr. Crockett here, but the Federal Government has an obligation to defend our borders from invasion. It does not have any Constitutional obligation to help anyone out. I'll gladly dig down to the lint in my pockets to help people out, and while I'm glad our government can weigh in (and not calling for that to stop), a government that invented 10 trillion dollars of debt in the last decade can surely find the money to do both.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

But it seems that now the issue is, do we spend the money on this wall or in helping our own citizens who have lost everything in Harvey?  A terrible choice, but right now -- having seen images of the destruction and loss wrought by Harvey -- if we have to make this awful choice -- I say, give the money to help the victims of Harvey first.  The wall can wait.  I

Going down that long, tortuous path has every opportunity to be indefinitely delayed as one crisis after another comes into play, with delay inevitable.

You are talking as if there is money there to pay for a wall.  There is not.  Nor is there money to pay for a myriad of things we are spending money on, like $3.1 billion for vacation for employees on administrative leave, or on bird watching. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427891/ten-most-ridiculous-ways-government-wastes-your-money-jillian-kay-melchior

You do realize do you not that we are broke?  This is not about taking money from one thing and spending on another.  This is about spending money on things that we should be spending money on.

[RoosGirl]

Going down that long, tortuous path has every opportunity to be indefinitely delayed as one crisis after another comes into play, with delay inevitable.

You are talking as if there is money there to pay for a wall.  There is not.  Nor is there money to pay for a myriad of things we are spending money on, like $3.1 billion for vacation for employees on administrative leave, or on bird watching. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427891/ten-most-ridiculous-ways-government-wastes-your-money-jillian-kay-melchior

You do realize do you not that we are broke?  This is not about taking money from one thing and spending on another.  This is about spending money on things that we should be spending money on.

Yep, everyone thinks $1B is so much money, but it's just a little drop in the bucket compared to the $400B in *interest* payments on the US debt.  Per my original comment this is just a bunch of bullshit from a Congress who is setting itself up for not appropriating money for a wall.  A Congress that already informed us there was "no chance" they would not be raising the debt limit.

[Smokin Joe]

Yep, everyone thinks $1B is so much money, but it's just a little drop in the bucket compared to the $400B in *interest* payments on the US debt.  Per my original comment this is just a bunch of bullshit from a Congress who is setting itself up for not appropriating money for a wall.  A Congress that already informed us there was "no chance" they would not be raising the debt limit.

It is a false dichotomy used as an excuse to not do something they don't want to do. When they invent the next gob of debt as part of their ongoing contribution to the future generations of Americans, they can make the investment in both, because both will pay dividends in the future, unlike so many of the ratholes they piss our grandchildren's economic future down.

[RetBobbyMI]

Going down that long, tortuous path has every opportunity to be indefinitely delayed as one crisis after another comes into play, with delay inevitable.

You are talking as if there is money there to pay for a wall.  There is not.  Nor is there money to pay for a myriad of things we are spending money on, like $3.1 billion for vacation for employees on administrative leave, or on bird watching. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427891/ten-most-ridiculous-ways-government-wastes-your-money-jillian-kay-melchior

You do realize do you not that we are broke?  This is not about taking money from one thing and spending on another.  This is about spending money on things that we should be spending money on.

The country is not broke. In fact it takes in more of our hard earned money than it spends. The problem with Washington DC is that it wastes enough money that could fund both the wall AND the Harvey recovery. But the political machine in DC won't let that happen.  There is too much money tied to political payoffs for votes.

[Smokin Joe]

The country is not broke. In fact it takes in more of our hard earned money than it spends. The problem with Washington DC is that it wastes enough money that could fund both the wall AND the Harvey recovery. But the political machine in DC won't let that happen.  There is too much money tied to political payoffs for votes.

The gorilla in the room is Foreign Aid. I'm sure we have a few hostile countries we can give less to to support rescuing our own, and still build the wall.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The country is not broke. In fact it takes in more of our hard earned money than it spends. The problem with Washington DC is that it wastes enough money that could fund both the wall AND the Harvey recovery. But the political machine in DC won't let that happen.  There is too much money tied to political payoffs for votes.

The definition of being broke is that one does not bring in enough to cover the bills.

The USA does not and hence is broke.

We ONLY survive by encumbering future generations with debt by spending now above our means.  A crack addict has that same mentaiilty.

The entire argument of not being able to afford a wall, aid or anything else is a strawman and certainly not based upon fact.

[RetBobbyMI]

The definition of being broke is that one does not bring in enough to cover the bills.

The USA does not and hence is broke.

We ONLY survive by encumbering future generations with debt by spending now above our means.  A crack addict has that same mentaiilty.

The entire argument of not being able to afford a wall, aid or anything else is a strawman and certainly not based upon fact.

The US government does not have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.  Because they treat the national debt separately from other spending, whether it be discretionary or not, they spend and spend like crazy. Then they remember they have to borrow more to pay the debt. There is enough revenue taking in by the government that should easily pay normal obligations.  It will never change until they are forced to have a balanced budget to include paying the debt.

[Chosen Daughter]

@Oceander

I just got an email from the Sheriff's Dept. in Conroe, Texas, Montgomery County, where I own property, and it says:

"For over an hour helicopter after helicopter landed at Conroe Regional Airport with mostly medical evacuees from the Golden Triangle Area. Twenty-four ambulances and two buses awaited their arrival and are transporting them to several locations north of Conroe which arrangements had been made for. We will have additional information shortly."

The golden triangle is Beaumont, Port Arthur, and Orange. 

There are no hospitals open in a huge area involved in this mega flood. It will take money and time before medical services anywhere in the area can function.  Infrastructure (roads/bridges) should get money first so teams of repair people can get around, then water infrastructure repaired, and food next, then medical services should be next. People cannot return home if there is no potable water and food available.  They can't go to work in oil refineries or any other job if there is no water and food available.

There has never been in modern times in this country, many hundreds of miles with basic services wiped out including the houses.

The US House of Representatives and the Senate should be required to fly over these hundreds of miles to see the devastation before they vote on money to help repair services so people can live again in these areas.

I agree.  And Hurricane Irma is making her way to shore soon also.  Hopefully she will steadily downgrade by currently at a 2.  If our taxes cannot provide basic help during natural disasters we are a failed country.  We have lost our ability to function.  What are they thinking?