Death Of Senate GOP Health Care Bill Is Giving Conservatives A Good Reason To Never Vote Republican Again

[driftdiver]

While I share your frustration @INVAR --- what do you think will be happening to the country for the next 20 years while conservatives are busy building a political party of consequence?

@Right_in_Virginia
Conservatives will never build a political party of consequence.   A few 'conservatives' will proclaim they own the Truth and define what conservatism is, all while having different versions from each other.   They will refuse to compromise because compromise is of "the devil" and they'll proudly sit on their hill fending off any and all approaches.  While this is happening liberal operatives will occasionally throw red meat into the fray and the conservatives will kill each other over meaningless trivia.

Meanwhile reasonable folks will perhaps form into a independent party or maybe just maybe a leader will take over the GOP and schedule a surgery to install a backbone in the various politicians.

[roamer_1]

Sure, that'll make conservatives completely irrelevant. 

Forging coalitions is not easy.   Picking up your jacks and going home is.

This was not irrelevant.
and you have to have a reason to play jacks in the first place, or picking up your jacks and going home is the right thing to do.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The same exact thing that happens when the GOP is playing second fiddle which is exactly the same exact thing it does when it has control of all 3 branches.

History teaches that tyranny, especially the meddlesome 'for-our-own-good' kind, is never stopped or slowed by the use of civil means that have been corrupted wholesale by the rulers to keep themselves in power.

Ah, well, alrighty @INVAR  But I was thinking of a less esoteric approach ... one that would involve Conservatives and Center-Right Republicans in the Senate banning together to deal with the leftists whackos in the caucus---like removing their committee assignments and helping to primary them out of the Senate --- something along these lines.   

[truth_seeker]

Time for true pure conservative party right? Like the Constitution Party?

Susan Collins of Maine was elected with 68%.  How does a new party solve that situation, for conservatives?

What are the actual accomplishments to date, of the Constitution Party? If they are so desirable, why haven't they done more?

[truth_seeker]

Three words:

Could've.

Had.

Cruz.

How. Would. Cruz. Have. Changed. Collins. Vote?

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia
Conservatives will never build a political party of consequence.   A few 'conservatives' will proclaim they own the Truth and define what conservatism is, all while having different versions from each other.   They will refuse to compromise because compromise is of "the devil" and they'll proudly sit on their hill fending off any and all approaches.  While this is happening liberal operatives will occasionally throw red meat into the fray and the conservatives will kill each other over meaningless trivia.

Meanwhile reasonable folks will perhaps form into a independent party or maybe just maybe a leader will take over the GOP and schedule a surgery to install a backbone in the various politicians.

IMO, @driftdiver the President has done an excellent job of exposing the underbelly of the Republican Party.  Now we (including members of the Senate---not just the voters) need to come together and work to replace them. 

[kevindavis007]

Sure, that'll make conservatives completely irrelevant. 

Forging coalitions is not easy.   Picking up your jacks and going home is.

That was sarcasm..

[Oceander]

The fault lies with the fact the GOP had eight years to develop a comprehensive alternative and, to all appearances, instead wasted that time playing empty games of outright repeal.  Too bad. 

[Hoodat]

How. Would. Cruz. Have. Changed. Collins. Vote?

The same way he was able to get her vote the last time.  Collins wants some assurance that there will be something in place that will make insurance more affordable.  With the current ineptitude of McConnell and Ryan sitting in the driver's seat, uncertainty has skyrocketed.

If the Republicans had done what they campaigned to do (including Collins), then they would have had Collins' vote.  But they didn't.  They lied.  They cast their lot with a failed program.

[kevindavis007]

Susan Collins of Maine was elected with 68%.  How does a new party solve that situation, for conservatives?

What are the actual accomplishments to date, of the Constitution Party? If they are so desirable, why haven't they done more?

Sarcasm..

[INVAR]

Riiiight. Because it's always the customer's fault for not buying the piece of crap you're selling. Blame em good. And whatever you do, don't look at ways to improve your product in order that those customers will WANT to buy your product... I know. Cheapen it up... Make it even crappier. That'll teach em.

That is the Communist Way.  We will like it and vote for it OR ELSE!... ELSE YOU will be blamed for not voting for the lesser crap so you can have more and worse of it.

Because after all, the other side's crap is worse than the crap this side dishes out to you and demands you shove down your throat.

[kevindavis007]

The fault lies with the fact the GOP had eight years to develop a comprehensive alternative and, to all appearances, instead wasted that time playing empty games of outright repeal.  Too bad.

That is the truth..

[Emjay]

Riiiight. Because it's always the customer's fault for not buying the piece of crap you're selling. Blame em good. And whatever you do, don't look at ways to improve your product in order that those customers will WANT to buy your product... I know. Cheapen it up... Make it even crappier. That'll teach em.

Nice rant, but it's exactly what happens when Republicans stay home because a candidate is not 'quite to their liking.'

It needs to start earlier, during the primaries.  If the Republicans ever realize we want conservatives we might get more of them.

[Emjay]

How. Would. Cruz. Have. Changed. Collins. Vote?

Probably not but I think Cruz would have accomplished far more than Trump has so far.

He's smart, he's conservative, he's articulate and can explain intricate things because he understands them.

I'm not sure he could have had an immediate influence over the Senate but he could have gained it.

[libertybele]

Susan Collins of Maine was elected with 68%.  How does a new party solve that situation, for conservatives?

What are the actual accomplishments to date, of the Constitution Party? If they are so desirable, why haven't they done more?

Our electoral/two-party system is set up so that it is nearly impossible for a 3rd party win; therefore contributions and votes go to either the GOP or the DEMS.  The Constitution Party is not a party that is in power; so evaluating accomplishments is a mute issue. Their platform and ideology is different from either of the two parties that are currently in power. While I would love to see the Constitution party become a party in play, it is highly unlikely.  The only way that I remotely see them becoming a party of power is if we have some very strong conservatives, like Paul, Cruz, Lee and members of the Freedom Caucus join them.  It's going to take those conservatives currently in play shifting to another party; either one of them won't be able to accomplish this shift on their own, it's going to take the entire group ... just my opinion of course.

[Hoodat]

The fault lies with the fact the GOP had eight years to develop a comprehensive alternative and, to all appearances, instead wasted that time playing empty games of outright repeal.  Too bad.

The comprehensive alternative was to get the federal government the hell out of the health insurance market.  Unfortunately, they abandoned that the day Trump took office.

Philosophically, Obamacare was doomed to fail.  Republicans knew it.  Democrats knew it.  The architects of Obamacare openly admitted it back in 2010.  Yet for some insane reason, Republicans got this idea in their head that this philosophical inevitability could be reversed, and that Obamacare could be saved.  It was a fatal mistake on their part.

Overall, we are better off with the current law than with the 'fix' that Republicans were trying to pass.  The only thing to do now is to let it collapse, and see what solution the free market comes up with.  But it is still not too late for the Republicans to screw that up.

[INVAR]

Nice rant, but it's exactly what happens when Republicans stay home because a candidate is not 'quite to their liking.'

We do not accept the blame you want to foist on us.

Give us a reason not to sit home or vote for another party.

Some of us worked in the trenches and understand how deep the corruption goes to ensure someone the Oligarchy approves of is the 'nominee'.  After all, some of us remember Boehner's rule change that effectively stripped any grassroots challenge to the Establishment.

So... your party is the problem.  Not we voters who will no longer vote for liberals just because they have an R after their name.

[INVAR]

Ah, well, alrighty @INVAR  But I was thinking of a less esoteric approach ... one that would involve Conservatives and Center-Right Republicans in the Senate banning together to deal with the leftists whackos in the caucus---like removing their committee assignments and helping to primary them out of the Senate --- something along these lines.   

Wake me up if that ever happens.

I'm pretty sure I will never see that in my lifetime.

[Emjay]

The comprehensive alternative was to get the federal government the hell out of the health insurance market.  Unfortunately, they abandoned that the day Trump took office.

Philosophically, Obamacare was doomed to fail.  Republicans knew it.  Democrats knew it.  The architects of Obamacare openly admitted it back in 2010.  Yet for some insane reason, Republicans got this idea in their head that this philosophical inevitability could be reversed, and that Obamacare could be saved.  It was a fatal mistake on their part.

Overall, we are better off with the current law than with the 'fix' that Republicans were trying to pass.  The only thing to do now is to let it collapse, and see what solution the free market comes up with.  But it is still not too late for the Republicans to screw that up.

I don't pretend to totally understand all the ramifications of the bill if it included the exact amendment proposed by Ted Cruz but I've read a lot of opinions that it would have really helped the current situation in several key ways.  I think if McConnell had left that Cruz amendment intact that Mike Lee would have been on board. 

Obamacare IS on the path to self-destruction but we could have helped it along with the Cruz Amendment.

[truth_seeker]

The fault lies with the fact the GOP had eight years to develop a comprehensive alternative and, to all appearances, instead wasted that time playing empty games of outright repeal.  Too bad.

Welcome to the reality of American politics.

If history repeats itself, the GOP may be punished for this failure. But as I wrote yesterday, the dems in 2009 took until March 23 to sign Obamacare, so there is ample time for the party to get its act together.

Unlike the dems, the span of the GOP from right-to-center, is a lot of ground to satisfy.

I live in an historical conservative district, like many other places. It is becoming more centrist, independent.

Those who classify themselves as "independents" come from the right, center, and left.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Right_in_Virginia
Conservatives will never build a political party of consequence.   A few 'conservatives' will proclaim they own the Truth and define what conservatism is, all while having different versions from each other.   They will refuse to compromise because compromise is of "the devil" and they'll proudly sit on their hill fending off any and all approaches.  While this is happening liberal operatives will occasionally throw red meat into the fray and the conservatives will kill each other over meaningless trivia.

Meanwhile reasonable folks will perhaps form into a independent party or maybe just maybe a leader will take over the GOP and schedule a surgery to install a backbone in the various politicians.

I really, really wish you were wrong, but this thread proves you aren't.

[corbe]

Our electoral/two-party system is set up so that it is nearly impossible for a 3rd party win; therefore contributions and votes go to either the GOP or the DEMS.  The Constitution Party is not a party that is in power; so evaluating accomplishments is a mute issue. Their platform and ideology is different from either of the two parties that are currently in power. While I would love to see the Constitution party become a party in play, it is highly unlikely.  The only way that I remotely see them becoming a party of power is if we have some very strong conservatives, like Paul, Cruz, Lee and members of the Freedom Caucus join them.  It's going to take those conservatives currently in play shifting to another party; either one of them won't be able to accomplish this shift on their own, it's going to take the entire group ... just my opinion of course.

   Wisdom is certainly not wasted on you @libertybele
   Excellent Post!

[Right_in_Virginia]

Probably not but I think Cruz would have accomplished far more than Trump has so far.  He's smart, he's conservative, he's articulate and can explain intricate things because he understands them.  I'm not sure he could have had an immediate influence over the Senate but he could have gained it.

Fantasies of Ted Cruz are like comfort food  ....  delicious days of frenzied self-soothing in the face of disappointment ... leaving nothing more than guilt, thunder thighs and clogged arteries in their wake.     

[corbe]

Fantasies of Ted Cruz are like comfort food  ....  delicious days of frenzied self-soothing in the face of disappointment ... leaving nothing more than guilt, thunder thighs and clogged arteries in their wake.     

   Now that right there is funny @Right_in_Virginia and TOTALLY misses what people like about Sen. Cruz but hey it's the INTERNET, I play 'fool' all the time just to amuse myself, too.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The same way he was able to get her vote the last time.  Collins wants some assurance that there will be something in place that will make insurance more affordable.

He got Collins' vote the last time because she knew Obama would veto whatever the GOP came up with.  He got her vote because she knew it was meaningless.  That's no longer the situation.

And she doesn't want "some assurance" that insurance will be "more affordable".  She wants guarantees that poor people will be given insurance if they can't/won't afford it.  Which is the exact opposite thing that conservatives want.

Or to put it differently, any health care bill that Susan Collins will help to pass into law is not a health care bill conservatives will support.  It is an unbridgeable gap.