GOP tensions rise over Cruz proposal

[INVAR]

For a self-proclaimed rock-ribbed conservative Republican he sure takes an awful lot of liberal Democrat positions. 

Actually, let's correct that statement just a tad: "For a self-proclaimed rock-ribbed conservative Republican he sure takes an awful lot of liberal Democrat Socialist/Communist positions. 

Seems to be about the right time....

Happens when Socialism/Communism is being peddled as compassion in a vain effort to shame the members on a Conservative forum.

[Mod2]

The point has been made.  Please stick to the topic.

[Cyber Liberty]

The point has been made.  Please stick to the topic.

As a refresher, this is supposed to be about an argument between Cruz and McConnell, right?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

As a refresher, this is supposed to be about an argument between Cruz and McConnell, right?

Right.

What's kind of odd about the reaction to Cruz' proposal is that Cruz is really only urging a partial return to how things were before 2010.  That's hardly an extreme or radical position for a Republican to take, even if the votes aren't there to do it.  The reaction to that proposal seems a bit....overwrought.

[SunkenCiv]

[snip] The proposal would allow insurance companies the freedom to sell any kinds of health plans they want as long as they also sell at least one plan that qualifies under the regulatory requirements of the Affordable Care Act (ACA). [/snip]

Odd that's considered a non-starter.  Put it up for a vote, see if it's a non-starter or not.

Instead of gubmint controlled fake health care, the existing Medical Care Spending Accounts need to be made open-ended, that is, instead of expiring at the end of the year (and the leftover cash goes right to the gubmint), the accounts should be lifelong.  Currently the accounts can be used to pay insurance premiums with before-tax earnings (that's how I use mine), but they give the option of banking money ahead of some planned elective procedure, typically orthodontic work etc.  No employers should be required to pay a dime for health insurance premiums.

[Cyber Liberty]

Right.

What's kind of odd about the reaction to Cruz' proposal is that Cruz is really only urging a partial return to how things were before 2010.  That's hardly an extreme or radical position for a Republican to take, even if the votes aren't there to do it.  The reaction to that proposal seems a bit....overwrought.

I'm inclined to agree with that.  It's bad when we see a solid Republican take a soft stand, and he's being shot at for it.  This is how far we've fallen.

[bilo]

A decent vehicle can put you over, and here a junker can kill you (winter, subzero temps, lots of nothing out there).

With business, I have had a similar problem, but all my crew were contractors and wanted it that way. Not investing outside the US, yet, but I am interested in checking out Medi-Share. Do you have a link?

I don't off hand, but if you look up Christian Healthcare co-ops I think you will see 3-4 listed.

[truth_seeker]

I'll wear that label like a badge of honor.  Damn right I'm bigoted toward phony Christians who ignore the admonition of Jesus Christ to exhibit compassion toward their brothers.

"Christian" charity is when the community and congregation members determine worthy targets for support and help.

NOT when the money is taken by the FedGov to be spent wherever and however some distant bureaucrat determines.

We did pretty well  few decades back, with the latter system.

The basic problem is too much money for collectivist government to burn, on their own collectivist priorities.

BTW which Amendment provided for free health care, in this nation?

[Free Vulcan]

I'll wear that label like a badge of honor.  Damn right I'm bigoted toward phony Christians who ignore the admonition of Jesus Christ to exhibit compassion toward their brothers.

So if someone doesn't want to bake a cake for someone because of their religious beliefs, that is wrong. But we must force Americans to spend trillions of their money to 'exhibit compassion' toward others based on your religious beliefs. Got it.

And you completely ignored the fact of the hatred many gays have toward straights, and Christians in particular.

[bilo]

Right.

What's kind of odd about the reaction to Cruz' proposal is that Cruz is really only urging a partial return to how things were before 2010.  That's hardly an extreme or radical position for a Republican to take, even if the votes aren't there to do it.  The reaction to that proposal seems a bit....overwrought.

It is odd to see Pubs dislike Sen Cruz's amendment. All it does is give the individual the option to seek coverage they want.

One of the big problems with obamacare is the cost of the mandated community rating and essential benefits is carried largely by the individual market. It's such a liberal approach. People who don't have to pay for it decide they will exercise their "moral superiority" by mandating everyone must be covered and pay the same premium except they're not in the individual market and they don't see their premiums triple. They don't lose their doctors. They don't see the best hospitals and clinics denying them care. I am in the group this happened to and I love Sen Cruz's amendment because I get to go back to a low cost major medical plan and all the "do gooders" can start paying some of the load for all the subsidized healthcare they want provided.

[bilo]

"Christian" charity is when the community and congregation members determine worthy targets for support and help.

NOT when the money is taken by the FedGov to be spent wherever and however some distant bureaucrat determines.

We did pretty well  few decades back, with the latter system.

The basic problem is too much money for collectivist government to burn, on their own collectivist priorities.

BTW which Amendment provided for free health care, in this nation?

Probably the same one that says it's okay to kill the unborn.

[Emjay]

Right.

What's kind of odd about the reaction to Cruz' proposal is that Cruz is really only urging a partial return to how things were before 2010.  That's hardly an extreme or radical position for a Republican to take, even if the votes aren't there to do it.  The reaction to that proposal seems a bit....overwrought.

We don't really know what the reaction to the proposal is.  All we know is McConnell spouting his Cruz hate.  The Old Goat will never forgive Cruz for going against him.

I've read elsewhere that the reaction to the proposal is favorable and gives the bill a much better chance to pass.

[Emjay]

So if someone doesn't want to bake a cake for someone because of their religious beliefs, that is wrong. But we must force Americans to spend trillions of their money to 'exhibit compassion' toward others based on your religious beliefs. Got it.

And you completely ignored the fact of the hatred many gays have toward straights, and Christians in particular.

We all know Jazzhead's not gonna shut up.  We need to stop arguing with him if we want to continue to discuss healthcare here.  I don't blame the Mod for getting tired of it.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

We don't really know what the reaction to the proposal is.

We know what the reaction to the proposal was here.  I was trying to make that point without pointing fingers, though....

I just thought it odd that a return to what existed prior to Obama's Presidency would be characterized in such harsh terms.

[Emjay]

Probably the same one that says it's okay to kill the unborn.

Plus for every dollar the feds take, 99 cents is lost through bureaucracy.  Churches and good organizations like Samaritan's Purse, the Salvation Army and the Red Cross do it better.  The Salvation Army, in particular, has almost no cost going into its administration.

[Emjay]

We know what the reaction to the proposal was here.  I was trying to make that point without pointing fingers, though....

I just thought it odd that a return to what existed prior to Obama's Presidency would be characterized in such harsh terms.

It was odd and I just came back from an hour in the dentist chair so I'm tired and cranky.  I may need to go back and read the original post but what I remember it was all McConnell ranting and raving.

[skeeter]

We know what the reaction to the proposal was here.  I was trying to make that point without pointing fingers, though....

I just thought it odd that a return to what existed prior to Obama's Presidency would be characterized in such harsh terms.

Exactly right. Since what we had is well within every living adult's recent memory, why does it seem so hard for ANYONE with a microphone to make the point that people weren't exactly dying in the streets before 2010?

[Emjay]

Exactly right. Since what we had is well within every living adult's recent memory, why does it seem so hard for ANYONE with a microphone to make the point that people weren't exactly dying in the streets before 2010?

They certainly were not.  Government interference has not helped health care one bit.

[austingirl]

I will not be happy unless there is a full repeal as promised.

[Cyber Liberty]

I will not be happy unless there is a full repeal as promised.

A reset to when that socialist pig took rule would be great.

[Sanguine]

We don't really know what the reaction to the proposal is.  All we know is McConnell spouting his Cruz hate.  The Old Goat will never forgive Cruz for going against him.

I've read elsewhere that the reaction to the proposal is favorable and gives the bill a much better chance to pass.

That's a good point.  Both McConnell and The Hill.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The proposal would allow insurance companies the freedom to sell any kinds of health plans they want as long as they also sell at least one plan that qualifies under the regulatory requirements of the Affordable Care Act (ACA).

If states still regulate insurance within their borders, how would this amendment "allow insurance companies the freedom to sell any kinds of health plans they want"?  Or is Cruz taking regulation away from the states and giving it to the federal government?

[Smokin Joe]

If states still regulate insurance within their borders, how would this amendment "allow insurance companies the freedom to sell any kinds of health plans they want"?  Or is Cruz taking regulation away from the states and giving it to the federal government?

My insurance company quit offering health insurance here (In ND).

Self-employed, I had a high deductible plan and a HSA. That did not comply with the Obamacare requirements. Like other insurers they quit offering plans which did not comply with Obamacare requirements. It was the ACA requirements that killed those alternatives for people nationwide, not the States.

While the Feds can't regulate those alternatives (back) into existence, they did regulate them out of existence. Remove those criteria, and the insurance companies can sell those 'lesser than Cadillac' plans again.
Remove the penalties, and people can get affordable coverage for the big stuff, and pay the little things out of pocket.   

[Hoodat]

“Nobody wants to go home and say to a 45-year-old steelworker with diabetes that you should have to pay a lot more for your health insurance,” the aide added.

Yet you have no problem at all telling a 50-year-old engineer to pay more even though he can't even use his insurance because there are no longer any doctors in network taking new patients.

[Hoodat]

As a refresher, this is supposed to be about an argument between Cruz and McConnell, right?

That simplifies things.  One has integrity.  The other does not.  One wants to repeal Obamacare.  The other wants to keep it.