Author Topic: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump  (Read 11047 times)

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #150 on: July 05, 2017, 09:32:41 pm »

Yes, there has been significantly more acrimony here.  I remember a long time when it wasn't this way.  If you remember it being so for as long as you've been here @XenaLee you must have come in as part of the great flood of unvetted refugees.  A flood with a majority of people "traumatized" by the "harsh abuse" "suffered" at TOS who entered this world angry with their shields up and swords at the ready to use against anyone who disagreed with them. 

And I can judge this.  I've been a member since May 2009.  That flood caused a lot of smart, good people to flee.  I still miss their  camaraderie, their insights, their humor .... but have finally stopped hoping they will return. And this is a shame.

@Right_in_Virginia, that was a long time ago....like maybe before the forum started.  You might want to go back and re-read some old threads.  As the saying goes "nostalgia ain't what it used to be".

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #151 on: July 05, 2017, 09:34:59 pm »
Hey @Right_in_Virginia luckily for you, I just so happen to know of another forum where no dissent against Lord Trump is allowed.   You'd probably LOVE it! i just don't understand why you put up with it here if you hate it (and us) so.

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Offline Axeslinger

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #153 on: July 05, 2017, 09:39:16 pm »
How can you possibly question that assumption and still live in reality-ville.  It's the thing that starts every fight here. 

There are three basic thought patterns here.  There are a few people who genuinely admire Trump and always have.  There are more people who despised Trump during the primaries and cannot give it up or don't want to .... or don't think Trump deserves a chance. 

There are people here who don't care for Trump but are able to be reasonable about it and discuss issues without vitriol

There are a few people, like me, who loathed Trump in the primaries but believe he is entitled to a chance and so much better than the alternative.

Look, I've participated in a lot of threads and it's always the nevertrumpers who start making nasty comments and personal insults.

If you can prove otherwise, have at it.  But just saying it doesn't make it so.
@Emjay, Emjay, Emjay  :nono: :nono: :nono:

That's not how it works.  (And for the record, I'm firmly in your second camp, 3rd paragraph, above). You can't ask people to prove a negative.  That dog won't hunt.   You should know that by now...unless you were intentionally trying that middle school debating tactic.  You have posited that it is ALWAYS NeverTrumpers.  Sorry, but you have posited a hypothesis...it is up to YOU to prove that it is true.  We'll be happy to wait.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 09:42:06 pm by Axeslinger »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #154 on: July 05, 2017, 09:41:06 pm »

So....let me get this straight.  You are, in your usual passive aggressive, condescending and tactless manner...


Nothing passive-aggressive or condescending about it.  You brought up the acrimony on this forum since you came here.

I gave you my best and most honest opinion about the reason why. @XenaLee

Sorry if I pricked a nerve. 

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #155 on: July 05, 2017, 09:44:33 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia, that was a long time ago....like maybe before the forum started.  You might want to go back and re-read some old threads.  As the saying goes "nostalgia ain't what it used to be".

It's not nostalgia @Sanguine ... just describing my view of the cause and effect. 

And it now is what it is.  We're all used to it. :shrug:

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #156 on: July 05, 2017, 09:49:15 pm »
Nothing passive-aggressive or condescending about it.  You brought up the acrimony on this forum since you came here.

I gave you my best and most honest opinion about the reason why. @XenaLee

Sorry if I pricked a nerve.

Your nasty demeanor shows that you intended to "p rick a nerve".  But since I'm used to it by now, you haven't succeeded.  At least, not with me.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 09:49:47 pm by XenaLee »
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #157 on: July 05, 2017, 09:49:17 pm »
Hey @Right_in_Virginia luckily for you, I just so happen to know of another forum where no dissent against Lord Trump is allowed.   You'd probably LOVE it! i just don't understand why you put up with it here if you hate it (and us) so.

Hey @Axeslinger ..... are you pulling a JR on me?

Besides, you misunderstand, probably deliberately.  Dissent is the lifeblood of political debate.  Snotty, judgmental, hostility is not---it is the deathblow.   I hope you see the difference. 


Offline Sanguine

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #158 on: July 05, 2017, 09:50:15 pm »
It's not nostalgia @Sanguine ... just describing my view of the cause and effect. 

And it now is what it is.  We're all used to it. :shrug:

Sorry, but what does that mean?

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #159 on: July 05, 2017, 09:53:28 pm »
Your nasty demeanor shows that you intended to "p rick a nerve".  But since I'm used to it by now, you haven't succeeded.  At least, not with me.

I was gentle.  Trust me.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #160 on: July 05, 2017, 09:53:58 pm »
Hey @Axeslinger ..... are you pulling a JR on me?

Besides, you misunderstand, probably deliberately.  Dissent is the lifeblood of political debate.  Snotty, judgmental, hostility is not---it is the deathblow.   I hope you see the difference.

Well, apparently you have decided to go with what you know best.  And to that I'd have to say you're the expert on those three qualities.....so I bow to your expertise.   Happy deathblowing.

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #161 on: July 05, 2017, 09:55:12 pm »
I was gentle.  Trust me.

Sorry.  Don't.  Can't.  Never will as in hell would freeze over first.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #162 on: July 05, 2017, 10:24:39 pm »
Dissent is the lifeblood of political debate.  Snotty, judgmental, hostility is not---it is the deathblow.   I hope you see the difference.

Quote from: XenaLee on Today at 04:49:15 PM
Your nasty demeanor shows that you intended to "p rick a nerve".  But since I'm used to it by now, you haven't succeeded.  At least, not with me.


I was gentle.  Trust me.

We're not sure you do... See a difference that is.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #163 on: July 05, 2017, 10:30:14 pm »
We're not sure you do... See a difference that is.

Who's the "we" @INVAR ...

Offline Emjay

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #164 on: July 05, 2017, 10:32:06 pm »
@Emjay, Emjay, Emjay  :nono: :nono: :nono:

That's not how it works.  (And for the record, I'm firmly in your second camp, 3rd paragraph, above). You can't ask people to prove a negative.  That dog won't hunt.   You should know that by now...unless you were intentionally trying that middle school debating tactic.  You have posited that it is ALWAYS NeverTrumpers.  Sorry, but you have posited a hypothesis...it is up to YOU to prove that it is true.  We'll be happy to wait.

I'm not asking anybody to prove a negative, a positive or anything.  I was simply observing that it seems to be that NeverTrumpers tend to be more hostile than other groups.  Don't hold your breath for me to prove it.  You could turn blue as your mother always told you.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #165 on: July 05, 2017, 10:38:26 pm »
I'm not asking anybody to prove a negative, a positive or anything.  I was simply observing that it seems to be that NeverTrumpers tend to be more hostile than other groups.  Don't hold your breath for me to prove it.  You could turn blue as your mother always told you.
There you go again, with the "mean hostile nevertrumper" bit.
Yet here you are poking again and again, trying to elicit a harsh response, and you seem to think the pokes aren't hostility. Get real, they are. But, keep poking the bear, then whine about how mean it is when it finally swats you. Come on, Emjay, that's behaviour unbecoming of one who has shown signs of being more mature and intelligent than that.
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Offline Axeslinger

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #166 on: July 05, 2017, 10:41:02 pm »
Hey @Axeslinger ..... are you pulling a JR on me?

Besides, you misunderstand, probably deliberately.  Dissent is the lifeblood of political debate.  Snotty, judgmental, hostility is not---it is the deathblow.   I hope you see the difference.
@Right_in_Virginia
I wouldn't dream of pulling JR on you.  He's a gutless jagoff.  Pretty much told him so in my opus.  I would never petition for you and your ilk to be removed.  Not in my country.

I merely asked why you subject yourself to what you obviously feel is mistreatment.  Why do you have such a visceral reaction to people who vocally disagree with your vocal CHOICE of a politician. Why are they not entitled to the same CHOICE?  Because you're no different than the harpies at TOS. That's why you're still there and won't leave here.   Because it just gnaws at your soul that people won't buy in with you.  You don't want dissent.  You won't tolerate it...that's why you get your knickers in a twist every time someone dares to speak ill of St Donald.

If you loved dissent, when people speak ill of any politician, you would just roll with it.   Perhaps point a logic in their FACTS, if it exists, but otherwise, you'd shake your head, laugh at their foolishness and roll on.   But that's not what you do, is it?
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline INVAR

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #167 on: July 05, 2017, 10:42:04 pm »
Who's the "we" @INVAR ...

Like you have to ask.

But your rhetorical question notwithstanding,  I did find your statement that "Snotty, judgmental, hostility is ... the deathblow of political debate" wondrously hilarious given your total support and devotion to a man who DAILY practices the art of snotty, judgmental hostility, Tweets or not - to your much applause and justification of so doing.

So thank you once again for that abject lesson in hypocrisy... and humor.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline corbe

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #168 on: July 05, 2017, 10:43:10 pm »
I'm not asking anybody to prove a negative, a positive or anything.  I was simply observing that it seems to be that NeverTrumpers tend to be more hostile than other groups.  Don't hold your breath for me to prove it.  You could turn blue as your mother always told you.

   With all due respect @Emjay I'm sorry you feel that way, there are extremes on each end of the Trump spectrum here and it does make for lively, passionate debate more times than not and that my wonderful friend is why some of us get upset when we perceive that our little home or the people in it are being disparaged or maligned.  Thank You for being here.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #169 on: July 05, 2017, 10:54:29 pm »
Like you have to ask.

But your rhetorical question notwithstanding,  I did find your statement that "Snotty, judgmental, hostility is ... the deathblow of political debate" wondrously hilarious given your total support and devotion to a man who DAILY practices the art of snotty, judgmental hostility, Tweets or not - to your much applause and justification of so doing.

So thank you once again for that abject lesson in hypocrisy... and humor.

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #170 on: July 05, 2017, 10:57:03 pm »
  Happy deathblowing.

I'm going to store that one away for future use, lol.

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Offline Axeslinger

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #172 on: July 05, 2017, 11:03:47 pm »
I'm not asking anybody to prove a negative, a positive or anything.  I was simply observing that it seems to be that NeverTrumpers tend to be more hostile than other groups.  Don't hold your breath for me to prove it.  You could turn blue as your mother always told you.

Um, wait, what?  Do you read what you write?



Look, I've participated in a lot of threads and it's always the nevertrumpers who start making nasty comments and personal insults.

If you can prove otherwise, have at it.  But just saying it doesn't make it so.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 11:05:17 pm by Axeslinger »
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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #173 on: July 05, 2017, 11:07:06 pm »
I thought Robert Jeffress was an overwrought kook the first time I heard him open his mouth, on Fox News way before Trump.

And I don't think this kind of thing has any business going on in a church.  I never have.  It's putting country on a level with God.  If you want to sing patriotic songs, sing them outside of God's house.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump
« Reply #174 on: July 05, 2017, 11:10:29 pm »
*double-take*

@truth_seeker
He was a great-grandfather of mine. Truly a stern Puritan.

"Hatevil Nutter had had enough. An elder in Puritan church in Dover, N.H., he objected to the way the three Quaker women “beset” Congregationalist minister John Reyner when he worshiped in public. He didn’t like the way they bedeviled the Puritan minister when he was at home. He believed their teachings were wrong and their methods pernicious.

For six weeks in 1662, the women had held meetings and services at various homes around town. The Quaker women, my 11th great grandfather cruelly reasoned, had the liberty to go elsewhere, but they failed to exercise that liberty. Instead, they tried to spread their beliefs in Dover, preaching against professional ministers, restrictions on individual conscience, and the established customs of church-ruled settlements. Something had to be done.

Nutter, who filled the pulpit on occasion, sprung into action. He helped to get Dover citizens to sign a petition “humbly craving relief against the spreading & the wicked errors of the Quakers among them.” According to a Quaker historian, Hatevil (pronounced just like you think, Hate Evil) stirred up crown magistrate Captain Richard Walderne to issue an order to the constables of surrounding jurisdictions.

A little background may be necessary. Many of the Puritans who settled in New England in the 1660s did not believe in a separate church and state. They fled Europe, in many cases, because they believed the Church of England had strayed from its basic principles. They refused to tolerate dissent.

Walderne’s order required the constables “in the King’s name” to take “these vagabond Quakers, Ann Coleman, Mary Tomkins, and Alice Ambrose,” tie them fast to a cart’s tail, and “whip their naked backs, not exceeding ten stripes apiece on each of the them, in each town; and so to convey them from constable to constable, till they are out of this jurisdiction.”

The medieval-style punishment was severe, even by Colonial standards. The order called for whippings in at least 11 towns. It would require travel over 80 miles in bitterly cold weather. The first stop was Dover, to which Nutter had come from England 30 years before. The women were seized on a frigid winter day by constables John and Thomas Roberts. George Bishop recorded the events:

“Deputy Waldrom caused these women to be stripped naked from the middle upwards, and tied to a cart, and after awhile cruelly whipped them, whilst the priest stood and looked and laughed at it.”

Hatevil thought it was a real laugh-riot as well, according to Sewell, another witness. “All this whipping of the Quaker women, by the Constables (in front of the meeting-house) was in the presence of one Hate-Evil Nutwell (Nutter), a Ruling Elder, who stirred up the Constables (John and Thomas Roberts) to this wicked action, and so proved that he bore a wrong name (Hate Evil).”

According to Sewell’s History of the Quakers, the women were carried next to Hampton, where the constable wanted to whip the women with their clothes on. But they said, “‘set us free, or do according to thine order.’ He then spoke to a woman to take off their clothes. But she said she would not for all the world. Why, said he, then I’ll do it myself…So he stripped them, and then stood trembling whip in hand, and so he did the execution.

“Then he carried them to Salisbury through the dirt and the snow half the leg deep; and here they were whipped again. Indeed, their bodies were so torn, that if Providence had not watched over them, they might have been in danger of their lives.”

Once the women got to Salisbury, one Walter Barefoot convinced the constable to swear him in as a deputy. He received the women and the warrant and put a stop to the persecution. Dr. Barefoot dressed their wounds and returned them to the Maine side of the Piscataqua River.

Barefoot had the support of the town’s people, who were guided by the influential Major Robert Pike, one of the leaders of the lower Merrimac valley. According to history books, Pike stood far in advance of his time. He advocated religious freedom and opposed ecclesiastical authority. He even courageously wrote to the court at Salem, objecting to the witchcraft trials.

The Old Quaker Meeting House in Dover

Eventually, much to Nutter’s chagrin, the Quaker women returned to Dover and established a church. More than a third of Dover’s citizens eventually became Quakers.

The Nutter connection to the Thompson family comes through Grandmother Marie (Meanie) Elise Kruttschnitt’s grandfather, Frederick Manthano Pickering (1862-1945), who was born in Portland, Me. Intrepid family genealogist Sue Wolfe discovered the connection several years ago and documented it with a set of papers more than an inch thick.

Sue discovered that Hatevil was born in 1598, probably in Harlington, Bedford, England, and came to the United States in the mid 1630s. According to the history of Dover, N.H., he did not arrive with the first wave of immigrants in 1633. He probably showed up a little later. Public records show that in 1637 he bought a lot from one Captain Thomas Wiggin. Over the years, he received various land grants from the town.

Hatevil was part owner of a sawmill at Lamprey River, and he owned a ship yard on the shore of the Fore River. He helped organize the First Church in November 1638 and served in various official capacities during his lifetime.

“His house stood on the east side of High Street, about 15 or 20 rods from the north corner of the meeting house-lot,” reads the history of Dover. “An old pear tree stands (1923) in the hollow, which was part of the cellar.”

Nutter was by no means alone in his hatred of Quakers. Laws were passed during his time imposing fines on the master of any vessel who brought a Quaker into the colony. Quakers who managed to set foot in the Colonies were supposed to be sent immediately to a house of correction, where they would receive 20 stripes and be confined to hard labor.

A later act levied a 40-shilling fine against anyone who harbored a Quaker for one hour. After the first conviction, the offender, if a man, would lose one ear; and upon the third conviction, the other ear. Offending women would be whipped each time. After four convictions, offenders–men and women alike–would have their tongue bored through with a hot iron.

Many Quakers came to America to escape religious persecution in Europe. They found it in new forms once they arrived."

https://thompsongenealogy.com/2011/04/hatevil-nutter-was-a-cruel-religious-hypocrite/

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln