U.S. Senate Votes on Blocking Portion of Arms Sale to Saudi Arabia

[ABX]

By invoking the Arms Export Control Act of 1976, U.S. Senators Rand Paul (R-KY), Chris Murphy (D-CT), and Al Franken (D-MN) forced a vote today on blocking a portion of new weapons sales to Saudi Arabia that would support its military campaign in Yemen.

The sale is part of a broader arms agreement that permits the U.S. to make up to $350 billion in defense equipment sales and training commitments to Saudi Arabia over 10 years. .....

https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/press/us-senate-votes-on-blocking-portion-of-arms-sale-to-saudi-arabia

[ABX]

Update, the Senate rejected it.
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/337614-senate-rejects-effort-to-block-saudi-arms-sale

[Bigun]

Update, the Senate rejected it.
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/337614-senate-rejects-effort-to-block-saudi-arms-sale

Excellent news!

[ABX]

Excellent news!

Excellent that we are sending a hundred billion dollars worth of weapons to what is one of the largest sponsors of terrorists in the world? (Lifting the ban on arms to Saudi Arabia was an Obama move, Republicans had blocked arming them through most of the 2010s).

[Bigun]

Excellent that we are sending a hundred billion dollars worth of weapons to what is one of the largest sponsors of terrorists in the world?

So you have been led to believe.  It isn't going to Iran which actually IS a state sponsor of terrorism.

[ABX]

So you have been led to believe.  It isn't going to Iran which actually IS a state sponsor of terrorism.

It shouldn't be going to Saudi Arabia or Iran. This isn't a 'or' proposal. They both are major terrorist sponsors for their own sects of choice in their own little caliphate war. It is the reason the Republicans blocked sending them arms for almost a half decade until 2015 when Obama reversed it.

[Bigun]

It shouldn't be going to Saudi Arabia or Iran. This isn't a 'or' proposal. They both are major terrorist sponsors for their own sects of choice in their own little caliphate war.

Not true!  The Saudi government is not a state sponsor and the Iranian government is!

[ABX]

Not true!  The Saudi government is not a state sponsor and the Iranian government is!

The House of Saud is neck deep in financing terrorism. The closest thing to 'state sponsor' you'll find in a kingdom. We just like to turn a blind eye due to oil interests and because they are a kingdom, they can keep things off the front pages in their area. It was one of the main (if not the primary) reason Republicans blocked arms deals to them for a long time (Obama overturned it).  At that, it is argued they are the biggest financial supporter of terrorism around the world and their version of Wahhibism is the root of modern terrorism.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/06/saudi-arabia-caught-red-handed-funding-us-enemies-in-afghanistan/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/704415/posts
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/06/saudi_arabia_funds_and_exports_islamic_extremism_the_truth_behind_the_toxic_u_s_relationship_with_the_theocratic_nation/
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/new-saudi-king-tied-911-bin-laden.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/09/saudi-arabia-obama-al-qaeda-terrorism/502343/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/saudi-royal-involved-in-terrorism-according-to-guantanamo-prisoner-a7312966.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/world/middleeast/24saudi.html
http://www.mintpressnews.com/how-saudi-gulf-money-fuels-terrorism/211331/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html
http://www.mintpressnews.com/wikileaks-cables-portray-saudi-arabia-as-a-cash-machine-for-terrorists/210038/
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/saudi-connection-wahhabism-and-global-jihad
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3205623/posts
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3558357/posts


You do understand that this current arms deal is a continuation of Obama's policy and against the Republican policy, it is just 100 times larger.

[sneakypete]

By invoking the Arms Export Control Act of 1976, U.S. Senators Rand Paul (R-KY), Chris Murphy (D-CT), and Al Franken (D-MN) forced a vote today on blocking a portion of new weapons sales to Saudi Arabia that would support its military campaign in Yemen.

The sale is part of a broader arms agreement that permits the U.S. to make up to $350 billion in defense equipment sales and training commitments to Saudi Arabia over 10 years. .....

@AbaraXas

EXCELLENT NEWS! Don't get me wrong,here.  I am very much in favor of sending ORDINANCE to the Sauds,but not the weapons that launch them.

This is going to absolutely break the hearts of a lot of US Senators and congresscritters that were looking for bags of cash to be left on their doorsteps,though.

[sneakypete]

Excellent news!

@Bigun

Whoever convinced you of that is NOT your friend or America's friend,and is not to be trusted. Pull the plug on Saudi financing,and 3/4's of the terrorist organizations will disappear the next day due to a lack of funding.

[sneakypete]

It shouldn't be going to Saudi Arabia or Iran. This isn't a 'or' proposal. They both are major terrorist sponsors for their own sects of choice in their own little caliphate war. It is the reason the Republicans blocked sending them arms for almost a half decade until 2015 when Obama reversed it.

@AbaraXas   @Bigun

Seems as obvious as the noonday sun in the Sahara desert,doesn't it? The Sauds are NOT America's friends,they are America's pimps.

[Bigun]

@Bigun

Whoever convinced you of that is NOT your friend or America's friend,and is not to be trusted. Pull the plug on Saudi financing,and 3/4's of the terrorist organizations will disappear the next day due to a lack of funding.

I spent a good portion of my life living and working in the  area and suspect that my understanding of the lay of the land is much better than most.

[sneakypete]

I spent a good portion of my life living and working in the  area and suspect that my understanding of the lay of the land is much better than most.

@Bigun

Sometimes people can be so close to something they can't see the mountains for the mole hills.

[ABX]

I spent a good portion of my life living and working in the  area and suspect that my understanding of the lay of the land is much better than most.

I know a lot of people that work over there. At that, I think my neighbor may be there or in Dubai right now. The story is the same over and over. If you work there, they will put on the most modern and open front possible, both because you line their pockets, but you are their guest and there are cultural norms on how they treat guests. I've heard stories where even in SA, American workers are constantly offered booze and hookers, usually forbidden there, just to woo them. I also have no doubt whatsoever that the average oil filed guys people work with are good, salt of the earth workers just like those here...

..but none of that has to do with the Saudi Royal family being probably the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world and their sect of Wahhabi Islam being the ideological fuel for it.

You can't judge the actions of a nation by the average joe worker who you associated with or how they treated you as a 'customer' any more than you can't judge the entire Democratic party based on your old blue dog Democrat grandmother.

[Bigun]

I know a lot of people that work over there. At that, I think my neighbor may be there or in Dubai right now. The story is the same over and over. If you work there, they will put on the most modern and open front possible, both because you line their pockets, but you are their guest and there are cultural norms on how they treat guests. I've heard stories where even in SA, American workers are constantly offered booze and hookers, usually forbidden there, just to woo them. I also have no doubt whatsoever that the average oil filed guys people work with are good, salt of the earth workers just like those here...

..but none of that has to do with the Saudi Royal family being probably the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world and their sect of Wahhabi Islam being the ideological fuel for it.

You can't judge the actions of a nation by the average joe worker who you associated with or how they treated you as a 'customer' any more than you can't judge the entire Democratic party based on your old blue dog Democrat grandmother.

Why do you assume anyone is doing that? 

The House of Saud covers a lot of territory most of which has no part in government.

[TomSea]

I think to some extent, the problem in Saudi Arabia is with individuals, those individual donors, etc. but not so much with the Royal Family, the Rulers. This may be in part what BigUn is referring to. I see it as something that we need to find out definitely what is happening.

Yes, Saudi Arabia exports radical teaching across the globe and funds Mosques the world-over. This needs to be dealt with.

Yes, it is said Saudi Arabia is white Daesh, ISIS is black Daesh but the two follow some of the same teachings on religion.

Just my opinion.

I'm not so sure about the dangers of Iran, they are an enemy of Israel; that is certain. After that, I'm a bit unsure.

[TomSea]

I will add in, we need to find out what is going on with these folks, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc.

..but none of that has to do with the Saudi Royal family being probably the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world and their sect of Wahhabi Islam being the ideological fuel for it.

See, the family has even been called hedonistic; it is the radical clerics and individual donors.

Per the links left, I will trust Daily Caller and some others; but Mint Press as a source is questionable.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I spent a good portion of my life living and working in the  area and suspect that my understanding of the lay of the land is much better than most.

I also am familiar having traveled for 30 years extensively through the region, as well as North Africa.

I know it is easy for some who are unfamiliar to throw all the countries into a single bag of radical Islam, but it certainly is not so.

There are huge differences between them.  Look at Libya under Ghaddafi and what it is now.  Or go back and look at Iran under the Shah vs now.

The US cannot treat them all alike, that is insanity.  We have a long history of dealing with the Saudis and have mutual interests, them to protect against the growing threat of ISIS or others, us to offer protection against the takeover of their considerable resources against the likes of Russia, Chinese or fundamentalism, which is sponsored by Saudi's neighbors far more than by them.

Whether we like it or not, several large wars have been fought over the access to petroleum.  Keeping that safe from enemies is of utmost importance.

[Suppressed]

@Bigun
I hope you don't mind, but this has to be said bigger...

The House of Saud covers a lot of territory most of which has no part in government.

I think most people don't realize how large and diverse the House of Saud is.

[Bigun]

@Bigun
I hope you don't mind, but this has to be said bigger...

I think most people don't realize how large and diverse the House of Saud is.

Don't mind a bit.  I'm quite sure you are correct.

[TomSea]

Those wars may have been about oil, some at least, such as the first Gulf war in '91 when Iraq invaded Kuwait; but just Saudi Arabia's treatment of women and gays, who they punish by cutting hands off and all of that should be enough to make us reconsider our relationship with them as far as I'm concerned.  IOW, human rights.

Back in '91 with Bush 41, that was easy to understand why we got involved with a large coalition of countries though I still know folks who didn't want us to go even then.

Black Daesh, white Daesh. The former slits throats, kills, stones, cuts off hands, destroys humanity’s common heritage and despises archaeology, women and non-Muslims. The latter is better dressed and neater but does the same things. The Islamic State; Saudi Arabia. In its struggle against terrorism, the West wages war on one, but shakes hands with the other. This is a mechanism of denial, and denial has a price: preserving the famous strategic alliance with Saudi Arabia at the risk of forgetting that the kingdom also relies on an alliance with a religious clergy that produces, legitimizes, spreads, preaches and defends Wahhabism, the ultra-puritanical form of Islam that Daesh feeds on.

Wahhabism, a messianic radicalism that arose in the 18th century, hopes to restore a fantasized caliphate centered on a desert, a sacred book, and two holy sites, Mecca and Medina. Born in massacre and blood, it manifests itself in a surreal relationship with women, a prohibition against non-Muslims treading on sacred territory, and ferocious religious laws. That translates into an obsessive hatred of imagery and representation and therefore art, but also of the body, nakedness and freedom. Saudi Arabia is a Daesh that has made it.

The West’s denial regarding Saudi Arabia is striking: It salutes the theocracy as its ally but pretends not to notice that it is the world’s chief ideological sponsor of Islamist culture. The younger generations of radicals in the so-called Arab world were not born jihadists. They were suckled in the bosom of Fatwa Valley, a kind of Islamist Vatican with a vast industry that produces theologians, religious laws, books, and aggressive editorial policies and media campaigns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html?_r=0

[ABX]

OK, so I guess the conclusion then with most is Obama was right when he lifted the arms embargo to SA?

Allrighty then.

[TomSea]

@Bigun
I hope you don't mind, but this has to be said bigger...

I think most people don't realize how large and diverse the House of Saud is.

Royal Family or Government,  if there is wrongdoing coming out of the country, it might not matter who is doing it and that is just semantics.

Saudi Arabia has likely bucked up now from when 911 happened but there is still a way to go.

[Bigun]

Those wars may have been about oil, some at least, such as the first Gulf war in '91 when Iraq invaded Kuwait; but just Saudi Arabia's treatment of women and gays, who they punish by cutting hands off and all of that should be enough to make us reconsider our relationship with them as far as I'm concerned.  IOW, human rights.

Back in '91 with Bush 41, that was easy to understand why we got involved with a large coalition of countries though I still know folks who didn't want us to go even then.

The NY Times has been trying to drive a wedge between the USA and Saudi Arabia for ages and it has largely worked unfortunately.

[TomSea]

The NY Times has been trying to drive a wedge between the USA and Saudi Arabia for ages and it has largely worked unfortunately.

Blame the messenger, you have people here who are skeptical as well, are they adherents of the NY Times?

Maybe one could turn that around and say one is defending Radical Islam. Does one deny it comes from there?

This was posted here, Clarion Project; really, Saudi Arabia and Turkey should be looked at seriously and could remain allies but only upon cleaning up their act:

Excerpts:

5 Things Trump Should Say in Saudi Arabia

Stop With the Radical Ideology

Leave Women Alone

I’m looking at you Saudi Arabia. Stop forcing women to wear floor-length black burqas. Stop denying women the right to drive. Stop mandating that they can’t go anywhere without their male guardian or an approved chaperone. Let women work if they want to.

Get Some Free Speech

Stop beheading people for witchcraft and sorcery and blasphemy. Those aren’t crimes! Stop arresting people for “insulting Islam.” Don’t call on the entire world to criminalize insulting religion. A cartoon of Mohammed may be offensive to you, but is it worth rioting and murdering people over?

End Hudud Punishments

Stop chopping people’s hands of for theft. Stop giving people lashes for going on dates. Stop throwing gay people off roofs.  Stop beheading apostates. Stop stoning adulterers.

Do This If You Want to Be Friends

It’s not so crazy what I’m asking. It’s very simple. All of the points are really the first point – stop with the radical political ideology. If you do it, and America will help you do it, we can have a new golden age of peace.

https://clarionproject.org/5-things-trump-saudi-arabia/

Oh, that's the Clarion Project.