Author Topic: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump  (Read 20552 times)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #250 on: May 30, 2017, 10:38:49 pm »
I do not surrender principles to appease those who want us to shut up about them.


Nor do you shut up telling us how much you stand on principles.     


Lighten up a bit. 


 :) 


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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #251 on: May 30, 2017, 10:42:03 pm »
I am not a Republican for precisely that reason.
I owe fealty to no one but God.
And I had already reached the point at which I could not support this president before he was even elected.
Nothing changed just because he won.



Well,  the rest of us could quit worrying about secret police bashing in our doors and sending us to reprograming camps,   but other than that,  yeah,  it's exactly the same as if he had lost. 


Maybe I exaggerate...  a little...

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #252 on: May 30, 2017, 10:42:33 pm »
lol nice try....almost all the MODS voted and supported Trump...

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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #253 on: May 30, 2017, 10:44:49 pm »
I'm sorry to but fully understand why you are doing it.

I never need anyone to help me say something dumb.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #254 on: May 30, 2017, 10:45:28 pm »

In terms of influencing the outcome,  you only had two choices.   


I don't see any benefit to futile gestures,  especially when it damages a chance to halt a true evil from advancing.
In a state with a whopping 3 electoral votes, where the outcome is already a given by a wide margin, all I had left was a combination of a protest and the minute advocacy of something I thought better.

So I did it.

I voted for Castle.

It didn't affect the electoral college spread one whit, and I knew it wouldn't, and for the first time since Reagan I voted for a POTUS candidate, instead of against one.

It is that longstanding manipulation by the GOP that angers people: "You'll take what we give you and you'll like it!" mentality that is at the root of the anger in Conservatives, it just came out differently with some than others. Me? I Just said "No".

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #255 on: May 30, 2017, 10:47:08 pm »
:amen: I was not a Trump supporter and still don't like him personally but this constant Trump is bad is nothing but childish.  I just pass over certain posters comments because I knoww it's going to be the same song.  Not thoughful at all and very boring.


I feel the same way and I do the same thing. 

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #256 on: May 30, 2017, 10:53:46 pm »
22222frying pan


I think introducing a little levity from time to time is beneficial.   :) 


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Online roamer_1

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #257 on: May 30, 2017, 10:53:50 pm »

Not one that had the slightest hope of winning.   In terms of influencing the outcome,  you only had two choices.   


That is not winning, nor is it choice.

Quote
I don't see any benefit to futile gestures,  especially when it damages a chance to halt a true evil from advancing.

Lesser evil is every bit true evil.
The futile gesture is in voting for the slightly less liberal.

Until Republicans actually grow a pair and stand up for what they say they believe in, absolutely nothing will change.
Y'all will keep with the rah-rah Republican theme, and let em blow a little smoke up your skirt, and vote yet another 'moderate' liberal into office. That is the futility here.

Put up a Conservative, and I will be happy to vote for him, because I will always vote for a Conservative.
But nothing, and I mean *nothing* else will do.
I refuse to be complicit in the coming destruction - A destruction that is a foregone conclusion without the very principles of Conservatism *en-toto* applied thick and deep.
It is the only balm. And to vote otherwise is just to assure what we all know is coming anyway, absent thereof.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #258 on: May 30, 2017, 10:56:20 pm »

I think introducing a little levity from time to time is beneficial.   :)

I agree.  We all tend to take ourselves a bit too seriously sometimes.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #259 on: May 30, 2017, 10:57:07 pm »


Well,  the rest of us could quit worrying about secret police bashing in our doors and sending us to reprograming camps,   but other than that,  yeah,  it's exactly the same as if he had lost. 


Maybe I exaggerate...  a little...

It was Republicans under Bush that made that possible... Homeland Security, and the monster it's become is the Republicans' baby.

And no, you aren't exaggerating. But betting liberal Republicans will lead you out of that is a pipe dream.

Offline endicom

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #260 on: May 30, 2017, 11:01:08 pm »
It was Republicans under Bush that made that possible... Homeland Security, and the monster it's become is the Republicans' baby.

And no, you aren't exaggerating. But betting liberal Republicans will lead you out of that is a pipe dream.


More under Reagan with the expansion of the WOD.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #261 on: May 30, 2017, 11:07:19 pm »
I would have agreed with you before the internet age - It was worse then, with the big three networks and the big three talking heads... But no more.

The internet, for all it's warts, is still largely free. 



But it is not where most of the people get their information on politics.   It is regarded as a rumor mill where the craziest cockamamie nonsense competes alongside with reality,  and for some it is not possible to tell which is which.   


The regular "news"  has the mantle of credibility.  (undeserved,  but it's still there.)   






Oh, but we most certainly CAN. But it takes a singular and coherent message.
What fights rampant liberalism is hard core Conservatism.
The problem is that the Republicans, who have oft been said to be the home of Conservatism, are shouting it down.


Because some of them are terrified of the media,  and some of them are really on the other side.   The media people understand that there is a social "in" group and a social "out"  group,  and they can steer the careers of politicians from the one group to the other with the power at their command.   

They (the media) are also owned by the billionaire class that gets rich off of Washington DC Big spending policies. 







The media doesn't matter.


I disagree.   I believe they are the primary weapon by which this war is fought. 





The truth is that concatenating 'Republicans' and 'Conservatives' is not true, and has not been true since at least the 94 Congress, and most probably, from the very day that Reagan;s heel crossed the White House threshold for the last time.

Our enemy is within the gates.


Well I agree with you there. 






meh. So did dubya during his first half of his first term. It's gonna take a whole lot more than tossing a few breadcrumbs to make me agree with you.


"W" turned out worse than I expected.    My thinking on Trump is that he has "evolved",   and has awakened to ideas to which he had little exposure during most of his life.   


I realized four or five years ago that he was likely going to run for President when he started making noises about Obama's birth certificate.    I also recognized the path he was likely to take.   


He took an "out"  group (birthers) that was so marginalized that even the bulk of their own political allies made fun of them,   and he spoke to their issue.   He not only spoke to their issue in a non demeaning fashion,   he offered support.    In fact,  he kept coming back to this issue several times.   


I think he marched through various groups of conservatives to win their support because he knew the Democrat path to the White house was unobtainable to him.   I think he went to a bit of trouble to learn more about conservative thought and ideas.   I think he did this initially just to size up what he needed to know to win,   but I think over time some of these ideas made sense to him,   and he adopted them. 


Now maybe he's fooling me,   but i've been watching him since he first intruded into the birther controversy,   and every move he's made since then leads me to believe he's moved in our direction. 


Of course it shall remain to be seen if this is actually true or is just a good pretense. 

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #262 on: May 30, 2017, 11:16:33 pm »
In a state with a whopping 3 electoral votes, where the outcome is already a given by a wide margin, all I had left was a combination of a protest and the minute advocacy of something I thought better.

So I did it.

I voted for Castle.


I actually advised people to do this in states where the outcome was a given.   I too live in such a state and I could have voted third party and it would not have affected the outcome. 


I regard it as a very different thing in states where votes could have made a difference.   



It didn't affect the electoral college spread one whit, and I knew it wouldn't, and for the first time since Reagan I voted for a POTUS candidate, instead of against one.

It is that longstanding manipulation by the GOP that angers people: "You'll take what we give you and you'll like it!" mentality that is at the root of the anger in Conservatives, it just came out differently with some than others. Me? I Just said "No".


I understand your thinking and I thought about doing the same thing. 


But then I thought someday I might get invited to the White House and that would make things awkward.

 :) 

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Online roamer_1

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #263 on: May 30, 2017, 11:18:13 pm »

More under Reagan with the expansion of the WOD.

Depending upon what you mean by more - More damaging because of  the years in interval - yes, you;re right.
More damaging to individual rights and privacy, not even close. The WOD provided the federal infrastructure, but HS is the American KGB in infancy... It will get much, much worse.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #264 on: May 30, 2017, 11:19:26 pm »
It was Republicans under Bush that made that possible... Homeland Security, and the monster it's become is the Republicans' baby.



Yes,  I recognize that we went big government that Presidential term. 




And no, you aren't exaggerating. But betting liberal Republicans will lead you out of that is a pipe dream.


More likely than will a Liberal Democrat.   At least this one seems capable of learning. 
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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #265 on: May 30, 2017, 11:23:17 pm »


But it is not where most of the people get their information on politics.   It is regarded as a rumor mill where the craziest cockamamie nonsense competes alongside with reality,  and for some it is not possible to tell which is which.   


The regular "news"  has the mantle of credibility.  (undeserved,  but it's still there.)   






Because some of them are terrified of the media,  and some of them are really on the other side.   The media people understand that there is a social "in" group and a social "out"  group,  and they can steer the careers of politicians from the one group to the other with the power at their command.   

They (the media) are also owned by the billionaire class that gets rich off of Washington DC Big spending policies. 








I disagree.   I believe they are the primary weapon by which this war is fought. 






Well I agree with you there. 







"W" turned out worse than I expected.    My thinking on Trump is that he has "evolved",   and has awakened to ideas to which he had little exposure during most of his life.   


I realized four or five years ago that he was likely going to run for President when he started making noises about Obama's birth certificate.    I also recognized the path he was likely to take.   


He took an "out"  group (birthers) that was so marginalized that even the bulk of their own political allies made fun of them,   and he spoke to their issue.   He not only spoke to their issue in a non demeaning fashion,   he offered support.    In fact,  he kept coming back to this issue several times.   


I think he marched through various groups of conservatives to win their support because he knew the Democrat path to the White house was unobtainable to him.   I think he went to a bit of trouble to learn more about conservative thought and ideas.   I think he did this initially just to size up what he needed to know to win,   but I think over time some of these ideas made sense to him,   and he adopted them. 


Now maybe he's fooling me,   but i've been watching him since he first intruded into the birther controversy,   and every move he's made since then leads me to believe he's moved in our direction. 


Of course it shall remain to be seen if this is actually true or is just a good pretense.
@DiogenesLamp

I fully agree with you about the role of the media and the need for our side to get on top of that but would add that the need to reclaim our institutions of "higher" learning is equally as pressing a need.

W is the only person to ever occupy the Whitehouse that I personally knew and to say that he became a BITTER disappointment is a gross understatement.  I have come to loathe the likes of Karl Rove and Karen Hughes, both of whom I also know, because of what they did to the W I knew!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 11:31:14 pm by Bigun »
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Offline EC

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #266 on: May 30, 2017, 11:25:37 pm »

He took an "out"  group (birthers) that was so marginalized that even the bulk of their own political allies made fun of them,   and he spoke to their issue.   He not only spoke to their issue in a non demeaning fashion,   he offered support.    In fact,  he kept coming back to this issue several times.   


I think he marched through various groups of conservatives to win their support because he knew the Democrat path to the White house was unobtainable to him.   I think he went to a bit of trouble to learn more about conservative thought and ideas.   I think he did this initially just to size up what he needed to know to win,   but I think over time some of these ideas made sense to him,   and he adopted them. 


Now maybe he's fooling me,   but i've been watching him since he first intruded into the birther controversy,   and every move he's made since then leads me to believe he's moved in our direction. 


Of course it shall remain to be seen if this is actually true or is just a good pretense.

Given me some food for thought there. It sounds right, on first hearing, anyroad.  :beer:
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #267 on: May 30, 2017, 11:28:08 pm »
@DiogenesLamp

I fully agree with you about the role of the media and the need for our side to get on top of that but would add that the need to reclaim our institutions of "higher" learning is equally as pressing a need.


Absolutely,  and the best way to accomplish this is to get government money out of it and make these institutions operate on the free market system. 


The massive bloat of Academia is funded by government loans for education services at  incredibly inflated prices. 


If this stuff had to stand on it's own,  it would not be so expensive.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #268 on: May 30, 2017, 11:31:51 pm »

But it is not where most of the people get their information on politics.   It is regarded as a rumor mill where the craziest cockamamie nonsense competes alongside with reality,  and for some it is not possible to tell which is which.   


The regular "news"  has the mantle of credibility.  (undeserved,  but it's still there.)   

Not anymore. CableTV has suffered huge, HUGE abandonment - to the tune of somewhere near a 45% drop in viewership - It is swiftly reaching the tipping point. And all those lost viewers are getting their news elsewhere, and I will give you two guesses where - and the second guess don't count.

Quote
Because some of them are terrified of the media,  and some of them are really on the other side.   The media people understand that there is a social "in" group and a social "out"  group,  and they can steer the careers of politicians from the one group to the other with the power at their command.   

They (the media) are also owned by the billionaire class that gets rich off of Washington DC Big spending policies. 

I don't think the media matters anymore to the Right. What is wrecking things is moderate and liberal operators confusing Republican and Conservatism. I can;t even tell you how many times I have been jeered at, here and elsewhere, by supposed 'conservatives' asking what the hell conservative principles even are..

That is where the problem lies.
The Conservative message has become fouled by those who wish to change it's precepts.

Quote
"W" turned out worse than I expected.    My thinking on Trump is that he has "evolved",   and has awakened to ideas to which he had little exposure during most of his life.   

I saw Dubya coming a mile away... Trump from a thousand miles away. He hasn't 'evolved' any more than Bush did. He's a 70 year old man - if he is evolving at that age, there is something drastically wrong. Nah, it;s bullsh*t.

Quote
Now maybe he's fooling me,   but i've been watching him since he first intruded into the birther controversy,   and every move he's made since then leads me to believe he's moved in our direction. 

I see him with a far more jaundiced eye - Experience has taught me well when it comes to cons... So I vote for the former.

Quote
Of course it shall remain to be seen if this is actually true or is just a good pretense.


We shall see.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 11:33:33 pm by roamer_1 »

Online Bigun

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #269 on: May 30, 2017, 11:33:24 pm »

Absolutely,  and the best way to accomplish this is to get government money out of it and make these institutions operate on the free market system. 


The massive bloat of Academia is funded by government loans for education services at  incredibly inflated prices. 


If this stuff had to stand on it's own,  it would not be so expensive.

@DiogenesLamp

I fully agree! If I had my way there would be no such thing as a government school!

BTW: I edited the post you responded to here.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline montanajoe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #270 on: May 31, 2017, 12:53:46 am »
Geez...

Another thread that''s gone 10+pages  with the same few posters as the last, and the last and the last and the last and the last and the last and the last and the last and the last and the last...got the idea yet...THIS IS BORING

There are very smart people here kick your brain into gear and say something you did not say yesterday and yesterday and yesterday and yesterday and yesterday and yesterday and yesterday and yesterday and yesterday..GIT THE PICTURE.. :whistle:

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #271 on: May 31, 2017, 01:01:46 am »

Nor do you shut up telling us how much you stand on principles.     


Lighten up a bit. 


And that is EXACTLY how Principles suddenly no longer matter to a large swath of self-identifying Conservatives.  No one takes them seriously anymore, we're constantly admonished to 'chill'.

I see no need to 'lighten up' about principles when they are routinely despised and disparaged as an enemy of good.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Offline Emjay

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #272 on: May 31, 2017, 01:40:54 am »
Depending upon what you mean by more - More damaging because of  the years in interval - yes, you;re right.
More damaging to individual rights and privacy, not even close. The WOD provided the federal infrastructure, but HS is the American KGB in infancy... It will get much, much worse.

I would not want to enter the dangerous and depressing territory that is your mind.
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Offline MOD3

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #273 on: May 31, 2017, 01:43:37 am »
Remember that you can argue with someone without getting personal.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #274 on: May 31, 2017, 02:14:13 am »
Remember that you can argue with someone without getting personal.

Sorry, but he was just so dam depressing, I wanted to shoot myself.  I'll be a better person.
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