House to vote Thursday on ObamaCare repeal...[updated...House Passes]

[ALurker]

The House will vote Thursday on a bill to repeal and replace rename and embrace ObamaCare,

Fixed it.

[bolobaby]

Well, sweetie, what do you suggest?  Perhaps we could just shoot out way out of this. 

I don't want to be on your side.  You are a negative person who seems to have forgotten that we cannot force congress critters to do what we want.

This bill is not perfect but it is good ... it does some good things and it is a start.  If you want to wait for a perfect bill, I suggest you find a comfortable chair.

Rule #3, in effect! Falsely ingratiating!

Here, I'll paste what I wrote before. This isn't even a GOOD bill. It does absolutely *nothing* to remove Obamacare:

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Bruce Jenner can call himself a woman all he wants. It doesn't make him a woman.

You can call this sh!tty bill "Repeal/Replace" all you want. It doesn't make it a repeal bill.

Ask yourself this simple question: will people still be getting free/highly subsidized health care after this bill is passed? (Hint: "Yes.")

Creating a $130B federal (slush) fund to cover "insurance" (ha!) for people with preexisting conditions is just a shell game of hiding the cost of the "free" stuff. This bill will not change the ENTITLEMENT that Obamacare created one frickin' bit. It just changes where the bill *seemingly* gets sent. They are pretending to send it to "the federal government."

Unfortunately, only democrats - and you - believe the federal government actually foots that bill.

Good job "repealing" that entitlement. Trump is a loser. Anyone who buys this "repeal" crap is a bigger loser.

Oh, and maybe you should check ALurker's post just above mine, too. It's more accurate than any of the fall-on-your-sword surrender-to-the-Almighty-Trump crap you wrote.

[bolobaby]

Oh, and @Emjay, to answer your question more directly - "what do you suggest" - here are 9 suggestions I've been throwing around since before the Obamacare debate:

(from another thread - http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,260354.msg1307421.html#msg1307421)

Basic point: insurance for preexisting conditions is NOT insurance. This has been said hundreds of times.

Can we please stop juxtaposing of the terms "insurance" and "preexisting conditions?"

We need an INSURANCE industry, which protects us against the cost of unforeseen health issues, and we need to fix the cost of healthcare. Period.

Price strategies:
1. Up-front, transparent pricing for procedures and care, providing for routine complications.
2. Tort reform to lower malpractice premiums and the cost to medical equipment providers.
3. Removal of onerous government regulations that cause $1 worth of materials crafted into a sling to inflate into a $190 "medical device."

Insurance strategies:
1. Allow for affinity groups to create risk pools across employers, especially for small businesses. (For example, B&B owners.)
2. Allow for the sale of policies across state lines.
3. No mandates on coverage to insurance providers. If you want something not covered in a policy, find a different policy. Just like if you want power windows in a car, and they aren't in the model you're considering. Let the market create policies people want.

Finally, for the uninsured:
1. Provide full tax breaks for any doctor or hospital that provides charity care. It *is*, after all, a charitable contribution.
2. Hold all doctors harmless on liability as it relates to charity care, except in the cases of gross negligence.
3. Encourage more private solutions like Medishare by using the government to HELP establish these programs, not hinder them with onerous regulations.

This isn't rocket science, but you people just love surrendering without a fight... oh... except in-fighting on how to BEST KEEP YET ANOTHER FRICKIN' GOVERNMENT ENTITLEMENT THAT WILL BANKRUPT US.

You just LOVE your government entitlement programs, don't you? Fools.

[Jazzhead]

This is a crucial vote -  the GOP dare not spit the bit.   

Coverage of pre-existing conditions isn't insurance -  it's a subsidy, and the question then becomes who pays for it.  Under ObamaCare, it's been the unlucky saps trapped in the individual health insurance marketplace,  paying far too much for far too little insurance.   Under the House bill's approach, those subsidies will be paid for by us all, through general tax revenues - and that's just as it should be.   

Centrist Republicans will hopefully come around as they learn more about the fundamental fairness of risk pools for the chronically sick,  and how to sell such fundamental fairness to their constituents.   They are vulnerable to Democratic demagoguery unlike their Freedom Caucus colleagues in safely conservative districts. But now is the time to do the right thing and demonstrate to the world that the center-right has the ideas and the gumption to govern. 

[Jazzhead]

The guy who you claim stood for nothing, has been carrying forward the conservative agenda while folks like you are snipping at his heels. He's barely been in office 3 months and has achieved all of the below and then some:

-Gorsuch
-Big drop in immigration flow
-Obamacare Repeal/Replace bill through the House (As of tomorrow)
-Signed an order reinstating the Mexico City Policy, which defunded International Planned Parenthood and other organizations that promote foreign abortions
-Signed two orders reviving consideration for the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipeline projects
-Signed a major executive order repealing several Obama-era environmental regulations unfavorable to coal.
-Signed an order which withdrew the United States from the globalist Trans-Pacific Partnership
-Launched an attack on Syrian airfield to chastize them for use of chemical weapons
-Re-established positive relations with Israel
-Signed an executive order that requires two federal regulations must be eliminated for every regulation created


The man is out there fighting for conservative causes and having real achievements like those listed above...with a congress that is softer than whale snot....and you're sniping at him because he hasn't been perfect in every way.

Wake up, climb down from your high horse, and get in the fight...you have a President leading the conservative charge and you seem to want only to undermine him.

Yup.   The Trump-haters can't handle the good.   

[libertybele]

This is a crucial vote -  the GOP dare not spit the bit.   

Coverage of pre-existing conditions isn't insurance -  it's a subsidy, and the question then becomes who pays for it.  Under ObamaCare, it's been the unlucky saps trapped in the individual health insurance marketplace,  paying far too much for far too little insurance.   Under the House bill's approach, those subsidies will be paid for by us all, through general tax revenues - and that's just as it should be.   

Centrist Republicans will hopefully come around as they learn more about the fundamental fairness of risk pools for the chronically sick,  and how to sell such fundamental fairness to their constituents.   They are vulnerable to Democratic demagoguery unlike their Freedom Caucus colleagues in safely conservative districts. But now is the time to do the right thing and demonstrate to the world that the center-right has the ideas and the gumption to govern.

Coverage of pre-existing conditions shouldn't be a subsidy for people who have paid premiums! People have paid money for health insurance and shouldn't  be penalized for getting sick or losing their jobs!!  That is absolutely absurd; taking someone's money and then telling then ...oops ... you're no longer insurable!

[libertybele]

The guy who you claim stood for nothing, has been carrying forward the conservative agenda while folks like you are snipping at his heels. He's barely been in office 3 months and has achieved all of the below and then some:

-Gorsuch
-Big drop in immigration flow
-Obamacare Repeal/Replace bill through the House (As of tomorrow)
-Signed an order reinstating the Mexico City Policy, which defunded International Planned Parenthood and other organizations that promote foreign abortions
-Signed two orders reviving consideration for the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipeline projects
-Signed a major executive order repealing several Obama-era environmental regulations unfavorable to coal.
-Signed an order which withdrew the United States from the globalist Trans-Pacific Partnership
-Launched an attack on Syrian airfield to chastize them for use of chemical weapons
-Re-established positive relations with Israel
-Signed an executive order that requires two federal regulations must be eliminated for every regulation created


The man is out there fighting for conservative causes and having real achievements like those listed above...with a congress that is softer than whale snot....and you're sniping at him because he hasn't been perfect in every way.

Wake up, climb down from your high horse, and get in the fight...you have a President leading the conservative charge and you seem to want only to undermine him.

Do you have a valid reliable "link" to verify all those accomplishments? 

Your last statement absolutely cracks me up -- we have a President leading the conservative charge??  That's why he went after the Freedom Caucus, refuses to REPEAL Bammycare, considering a budget funding PP,  and back pedaled on building the wall!  Got it!   

[Sanguine]

Coverage of pre-existing conditions shouldn't be a subsidy for people who have paid premiums! People have paid money for health insurance and shouldn't  be penalized for getting sick or losing their jobs!!  That is absolutely absurd; taking someone's money and then telling then ...oops ... you're no longer insurable!

But, they're not. It's only if you go to buy a new insurance plan that the pre-existing kicks in. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean?

[Mesaclone]

Oh, and @Emjay, to answer your question more directly - "what do you suggest" - here are 9 suggestions I've been throwing around since before the Obamacare debate:

(from another thread - http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,260354.msg1307421.html#msg1307421)

This isn't rocket science, but you people just love surrendering without a fight... oh... except in-fighting on how to BEST KEEP YET ANOTHER FRICKIN' GOVERNMENT ENTITLEMENT THAT WILL BANKRUPT US.

You just LOVE your government entitlement programs, don't you? Fools.

Surrender? We have not yet truly begun to fight. There is fighting stupid....charging at the machine gun directly across an open field....and there is fighting smart....call in some artillery on the machine gun while maneuvering to outflank it. One achieves the end goal, the other is Charge of the Light Brigade stupid. I choose...and more importantly President Trump chooses....a flanking maneuver that can actually result in achieving our goal (which is the advancement of our conservative principles)....you are proud to fail gloriously, telling yourself it was all for your "principles".

I neither love nor hate government. It is a tool, that can be used for good or ill. The Founding Fathers knew the dangers of government, and also understood its purpose and benefit....we should emulate their approach, not simplistically declare anything government does to be inherently wrong.

[Jazzhead]

Coverage of pre-existing conditions shouldn't be a subsidy for people who have paid premiums! People have paid money for health insurance and shouldn't  be penalized for getting sick or losing their jobs!!  That is absolutely absurd; taking someone's money and then telling then ...oops ... you're no longer insurable!

That's not what the bill would do.   If you're insured and get sick,  the insurance company shouldn't be able to cancel your insurance.   But if you let your coverage drop and then try to get back in when you get sick,  that's the classic free rider situation.   The insurance company can then charge you a higher premium.  That's only fair - why should others subsidize free riders?   

And as for losing your group coverage when you lose your job - welcome to America.   We've encouraged an employer-based insurance system since World War II, and the House bill doesn't change that.   But you should be able to transition from group insurance to individual insurance even if you have a pre-existing condition - so long as you remain continuously insured.     

[Mesaclone]

Do you have a valid reliable "link" to verify all those accomplishments? 

Your last statement absolutely cracks me up -- we have a President leading the conservative charge??  That's why he went after the Freedom Caucus, refuses to REPEAL Bammycare, considering a budget funding PP,  and back pedaled on building the wall!  Got it!   

There are a whole range of sources, google away.

[libertybele]

But, they're not. It's only if you go to buy a new insurance plan that the pre-existing kicks in. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean?

You understand exactly what I stated.  Let's say John and Jane Doe have worked all their lives, have insurance through their employer and have paid premiums all their lives and now are ready for retirement.  Government mandates that when John and Jane turn 65 that they sign up for Medicare which automatically drops their private insurance or their insurance is now available at a higher premiums for continuing their insurance though it becomes their secondary insurer. So ... If John and Jane now go onto Bammycare (provided it's more affordable) ... none of their pre-existing conditions are covered ... though they've been paying insurance premiums all their lives to another carrier(s).

[Sanguine]

You understand exactly what I stated.  Let's say John and Jane Doe have worked all their lives, have insurance through their employer and have paid premiums all their lives and now are ready for retirement.  Government mandates that when John and Jane turn 65 that they sign up for Medicare which automatically drops their private insurance or their insurance is now available at a higher premiums for continuing their insurance though it becomes their secondary insurer. So ... If John and Jane now go onto Bammycare (provided it's more affordable) ... none of their pre-existing conditions are covered ... though they've been paying insurance premiums all their lives to another carrier(s).

OK, but they are on Medicare, so why would they buy more insurance?

[libertybele]

There are a whole range of sources, google away.

No, I'm not going to do your homework; nor am I going to assume what you're posting is true. 

[Sanguine]

No, I'm not going to do your homework; nor am I going to assume what you're posting is true.

Yeah, sometimes that is a valid response, but usually it is an attempt to deflect. 

[libertybele]

OK, but they are on Medicare, so why would they buy more insurance?

Because Medicare only covers certain medical conditions and only pays for a portion of the costs; therefore one needs supplemental or secondary insurance to help pay for the out of pocket expenses.  So .... even though people have been paying all their lives for insurance once they retire, none of their pre-existing conditions are covered! 

[libertybele]

That's not what the bill would do.   If you're insured and get sick,  the insurance company shouldn't be able to cancel your insurance.   But if you let your coverage drop and then try to get back in when you get sick,  that's the classic free rider situation.   The insurance company can then charge you a higher premium.  That's only fair - why should others subsidize free riders?   

And as for losing your group coverage when you lose your job - welcome to America.   We've encouraged an employer-based insurance system since World War II, and the House bill doesn't change that.   But you should be able to transition from group insurance to individual insurance even if you have a pre-existing condition - so long as you remain continuously insured.   

I hope you are correct; I guess we'll all find out when the new bill is signed and hope for the best. 

[Sanguine]

Because Medicare only covers certain medical conditions and only pays for a portion of the costs; therefore one needs supplemental or secondary insurance to help pay for the out of pocket expenses.  So .... even though people have been paying all their lives for insurance once they retire, none of their pre-existing conditions are covered!

But, they aren't buying insurance from the company that they paid premiums to, right?

[libertybele]

But, they aren't buying insurance from the company that they paid premiums to, right?

In most cases, once you retire and go onto Medicare (as mandated by our government), most insurance through employers stop or some have the option of continuing their insurance, but not at a group rate.  So they have to try to find more affordable insurance through another company/Bammycare.

[Jazzhead]

In most cases, once you retire and go onto Medicare (as mandated by our government), most insurance through employers stop or some have the option of continuing their insurance, but not at a group rate.  So they have to try to find more affordable insurance through another company/Bammycare.

Just sign up for Medicare and, if you feel you need more insurance, purchase an affordable private "Medigap" policy to cover what Medicare won't.   You may be able to continue your employer's coverage under COBRA (and that is a group rate, not an individual rate),  but why bother unless there's a particular doctor who you want to continue to see who won't take Medicare?   

[Sanguine]

Just sign up for Medicare and, if you feel you need more insurance, purchase an affordable private "Medigap" policy to cover what Medicare won't.   You may be able to continue your employer's coverage under COBRA (and that is a group rate, not an individual rate),  but why bother unless there's a particular doctor who you want to continue to see who won't take Medicare?

Jazzhead makes some good points.  And, under COBRA you are paying the group rate instead of your employer paying it.  It always cost a lot, but your employer was paying it instead of you.

[libertybele]

Just sign up for Medicare and, if you feel you need more insurance, purchase an affordable private "Medigap" policy to cover what Medicare won't.   You may be able to continue your employer's coverage under COBRA (and that is a group rate, not an individual rate),  but why bother unless there's a particular doctor who you want to continue to see who won't take Medicare?

Ok, I hear what you are saying, but I'm concerned (obviously) about the pre-existing condition clause and how it would apply to the "Medigap" policy. I tend to think that no pre-existing condition is going to be covered.

[Jazzhead]

THIS ARTICLE and its related links (e.g., "the best time to enroll in a Medigap") may be helpful to you, LB.

[bolobaby]

Surrender? We have not yet truly begun to fight. There is fighting stupid....charging at the machine gun directly across an open field....and there is fighting smart....call in some artillery on the machine gun while maneuvering to outflank it. One achieves the end goal, the other is Charge of the Light Brigade stupid. I choose...and more importantly President Trump chooses....a flanking maneuver that can actually result in achieving our goal (which is the advancement of our conservative principles)....you are proud to fail gloriously, telling yourself it was all for your "principles".

I neither love nor hate government. It is a tool, that can be used for good or ill. The Founding Fathers knew the dangers of government, and also understood its purpose and benefit....we should emulate their approach, not simplistically declare anything government does to be inherently wrong.

You are truly deluded. Absolutely, positively deluded.

There will never be another vote on health care. The GOP knows that language is power. That is why they are branding this as "repeal." Afterwards, they can say, "Hey - we already repealed Obamacare. What else do you want us to do? It's over."

Your analogy is ridiculous. You are a surrender monkey. When you control the presidency and both chambers of Congress, you are not involved in the "Charge of the Light Brigade" by setting a conservative agenda. Your insistence that this capitulation is some kind of genius tactical maneuver to avoid a slaughter simply shows how deeply ingrained your Stockholm Syndrome is. You now actually believe this bullcrap you are spouting.

There will be no private solution. We will still have an entitlement to health care that will further bankrupt the country. None of the important measures that could actually help healthcare costs will ever be passed. The status quo will march on, like Nazis into Vichy France. And you will be there waving their flag.

Pathetic.

[libertybele]

THIS ARTICLE and its related links (e.g., "the best time to enroll in a Medigap") may be helpful to you, LB.

Thanks Jazz.