It Looks Like The New ObamaCare Repeal Bill is on Life Support as a Large Number of Tuesday Group Republicans Oppose it.

[txradioguy]

None of this ould be a problem if they'd just repeal the damn thing and stop trying to craft Obamacare-lite.

[Bigun]

None of this ould be a problem if they'd just repeal the damn thing and stop trying to craft Obamacare-lite.

 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

That is not what Trump has told the American people.  This isn't business as usual.  Americans want their premiums to go down.  That is what Trump promised.  Another failure.

This mindset illustrates the entire problem.  There is no way to make everyone's premiums go down unless the government pumps in a ton of money, and a lot of people don't want that either.

Seems like some people favor the free market only as long as it benefits them.

[DB]

This mindset illustrates the entire problem.  There is no way to make everyone's premiums go down unless the government pumps in a ton of money, and a lot of people don't want that either.

Seems like some people favor the free market only as long as it benefits them.

The "government" has no money to "pump" into it unless it prints it, borrows it or takes it from someone else. Obamacare is all about taking it from someone else. It was never about actually lowering costs, only shifting them.

[corbe]

This mindset illustrates the entire problem.  There is no way to make everyone's premiums go down unless the government pumps in a ton of money, and a lot of people don't want that either.

Seems like some people favor the free market only as long as it benefits them.

   I don't recall many people bitching about their premiums pre obummercare @Maj. Bill Martin
   The only valid starting point is the complete REPEAL of this CF, provide an appropriate period of adjustment in the interim, and pass Legislation for the stuff America wants, IMHO

[Chosen Daughter]

   I don't recall many people bitching about their premiums pre obummercare @Maj. Bill Martin
   The only valid starting point is the complete REPEAL of this CF, provide an appropriate period of adjustment in the interim, and pass Legislation for the stuff America wants, IMHO

That's right.  If he can't give them lower premiums as he promised just repeal the whole thing.  He ranted over and over about the cost of Obama care.  Now he wants to make it more expensive for people.

That isn't insurance its robbery.

[libertybele]

Quote:

The legislation would allow states to opt out of some of ObamaCare’s requirements and could result in people losing their current health coverage or facing much higher premiums.

That is not what Trump has told the American people.  This isn't business as usual.  Americans want their premiums to go down.  That is what Trump promised.  Another failure.

I look at this from a different perspective completely.  It is because of Bammycare that people lost their healthcare, their jobs, their doctors and for the majority of people their premiums skyrocketed.  That is not the fault of President Trump.  Let's place blame where the blame originated.  Bammycare was a nightmare from the very beginning AND Americans were lied to from the onset.  Rising healthcare premiums have been the norm for years; under Bammy though they skyrocketed and now to most their premiums are no longer affordable.

IMHO Trump's only failure right now is not putting his foot down and asking the House to come up with a plan for full REPEAL and replacement.

[DB]

I look at this from a different perspective completely.  It is because of Bammycare that people lost their healthcare, their jobs, their doctors and for the majority of people their premiums skyrocketed.  That is not the fault of President Trump.  Let's place blame where the blame originated.  Bammycare was a nightmare from the very beginning AND Americans were lied to from the onset.  Rising healthcare premiums have been the norm for years; under Bammy though they skyrocketed and now to most their premiums are no longer affordable.

IMHO Trump's only failure right now is not putting his foot down and asking the House to come up with a plan for full REPEAL and replacement.

Well actually, Trump has poisoned the well by demanding coverage of preexisting conditions.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/30/trump-guarantees-new-obamacare-plan-covers-pre-existing-conditions-in-bid-to-pass-overhaul-plan.html

Insurance that covers things after the fact isn't insurance at all. It's a government entitlement program. And yes, Trump did that all by himself.

[Chosen Daughter]

I look at this from a different perspective completely.  It is because of Bammycare that people lost their healthcare, their jobs, their doctors and for the majority of people their premiums skyrocketed.  That is not the fault of President Trump.  Let's place blame where the blame originated.  Bammycare was a nightmare from the very beginning AND Americans were lied to from the onset.  Rising healthcare premiums have been the norm for years; under Bammy though they skyrocketed and now to most their premiums are no longer affordable.

IMHO Trump's only failure right now is not putting his foot down and asking the House to come up with a plan for full REPEAL and replacement.

Mostly true.  But Trump's idea has always been socialized medicine.  So it will be the same with Trump he cannot do what he said and pay for it too.

[libertybele]

Well actually, Trump has poisoned the well by demanding coverage of preexisting conditions.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/30/trump-guarantees-new-obamacare-plan-covers-pre-existing-conditions-in-bid-to-pass-overhaul-plan.html

Insurance that covers things after the fact isn't insurance at all. It's a government entitlement program. And yes, Trump did that all by himself.

I agree with President Trump. If John Doe had a heart attack while working for company B and company B decides to eliminate his position and John Doe goes to work for another company and he needs to get onto a different insurance plan ... explain to me why the new insurance company should be able to deny him insurance or raise his rates or add a conditional rider to his plan??  Isn't the reason why we have insurance and pay premiums is to ensure we are covered for an illness/hospitalization/emergencies should the need arise?  Why in the heck would we pay for insurance and pay premiums to never use it?  Why should we be penalized for using our insurance?? To often companies find a way to eliminate their employees when they have a major illness. IMHO the notion that pre-existing conditions raises premiums is absurd ... everyone who uses their insurance has some type of pre-existing condition ... ever had a bad cold or the flu and been to the doctor?  What about the children with speech impediments?  How about the children with ADHD? How about skin rashes or people who have ever broken an arm or a leg? How about people with allergies or asthma? If these people lose their insurance, can those people then be denied coverage for those conditions?  Or is it only select conditions like cancer, heart failure, Multiple Sclerosis, Autism, Parkinson's, etc., you know, the more costly items to treat? The rising cost of healthcare is in large part due to illegals and healthcare fraud and abuse.  I think it is a travesty and very injust to deny coverage to someone who has a catastrophic illness ... should we stop treating people who come down with a disease and only treat people who have mild illnesses that are easily treated or cured?  That's what it's coming to. 

[Chosen Daughter]

I agree with President Trump. If John Doe had a heart attack while working for company B and company B decides to eliminate his position and John Doe goes to work for another company and he needs to get onto a different insurance plan ... explain to me why the new insurance company should be able to deny him insurance or raise his rates or add a conditional rider to his plan??  Isn't the reason why we have insurance and pay premiums is to ensure we are covered for an illness/hospitalization/emergencies should the need arise?  Why in the heck would we pay for insurance and pay premiums to never use it?  Why should we be penalized for using our insurance?? To often companies find a way to eliminate their employees when they have a major illness. IMHO the notion that pre-existing conditions raises premiums is absurd ... everyone who uses their insurance has some type of pre-existing condition ... ever had a bad cold or the flu and been to the doctor?  What about the children with speech impediments?  How about the children with ADHD? How about skin rashes or people who have ever broken an arm or a leg? How about people with allergies or asthma? If these people lose their insurance, can those people then be denied coverage for those conditions?  Or is it only select conditions like cancer, heart failure, Multiple Sclerosis, Autism, Parkinson's, etc., you know, the more costly items to treat? The rising cost of healthcare is in large part due to illegals and healthcare fraud and abuse.  I think it is a travesty and very injust to deny coverage to someone who has a catastrophic illness ... should we stop treating people who come down with a disease and only treat people who have mild illnesses that are easily treated or cured?  That's what it's coming to.

Well they aren't saying it but illegal immigrants do raise the rates of insurance.  When they are getting free health care they have to make up the cost somehow.

[libertybele]

Well they aren't saying it but illegal immigrants do raise the rates of insurance.  When they are getting free health care they have to make up the cost somehow.

President Trump seems (at least for the time being) to be getting a handle on halting illegal immigration.  Denying non-citizens healthcare would be a start; easier said than done from a Christian and humanitarian stance, but our citizens are suffering as a result. 

There is no easy answer ... but to try and piecework and patch and existing plan that is already a disaster is absurd.  Repeal the ACA completely and implement the plan that was previously voted on by both Houses a couple of years ago or come up with a new plan like Cruz and Paul's.

[Chosen Daughter]

President Trump seems (at least for the time being) to be getting a handle on halting illegal immigration.  Denying non-citizens healthcare would be a start; easier said than done from a Christian and humanitarian stance, but our citizens are suffering as a result. 

There is no easy answer ... but to try and piecework and patch and existing plan that is already a disaster is absurd.  Repeal the ACA completely and implement the plan that was previously voted on by both Houses a couple of years ago or come up with a new plan like Cruz and Paul's.

They can get healthcare in Mexico.  I don't know about some of the other countries but all they need to do is go home if they are from Mexico.

https://internationalliving.com/countries/mexico/health-care/ 

These illegals are not needy.  They come because they can take advantage of the system.  Free everything.  If they are sick or pregnant go home.  Americans have to pay for their own health insurance. Why should people working in the US get free healthcare because they are illegal?

[libertybele]

They can get healthcare in Mexico.  I don't know about some of the other countries but all they need to do is go home if they are from Mexico.

https://internationalliving.com/countries/mexico/health-care/ 

These illegals are not needy.  They come because they can take advantage of the system.  Free everything.  If they are sick or pregnant go home.  Americans have to pay for their own health insurance. Why should people working in the US get free healthcare because they are illegal?

 Very well stated!   

[Emjay]

The "government" has no money to "pump" into it unless it prints it, borrows it or takes it from someone else. Obamacare is all about taking it from someone else. It was never about actually lowering costs, only shifting them.

I believe that was the Major's point.  We can't have it both ways.

[Emjay]

Mostly true.  But Trump's idea has always been socialized medicine.  So it will be the same with Trump he cannot do what he said and pay for it too.

I'm not sure exactly where you get that idea unless  it was the not leave people dying in the street remark.  I've never heard Trump advocate socialized medicine.

[Chosen Daughter]

I'm not sure exactly where you get that idea unless  it was the not leave people dying in the street remark.  I've never heard Trump advocate socialized medicine.

It wasn't hard to find.  They are not "idea's" , they are truths.  I wouldn't have said it had I not known it to be true.  You could have looked it up yourself.  Google is a great tool to stay in the know.  Simply type in Trump socialized medicine or universal healthcare and wallah!  You could take your pick but here is one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/01/16/trump-obamacare-replacement-will-provide-insurance-for-everybody/#1425f586298d

[Emjay]

It wasn't hard to find.  They are not "idea's" , they are truths.  I wouldn't have said it had I not known it to be true.  You could have looked it up yourself.  Google is a great tool to stay in the know.  Simply type in Trump socialized medicine or universal healthcare and wallah!  You could take your pick but here is one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/01/16/trump-obamacare-replacement-will-provide-insurance-for-everybody/#1425f586298d

By the way, I wasn't going back to 'that thread' but I must say that you made a personal and insulting comment to me over there.

I have disagreed with you and argued with you (we are all entitled to our opinions) but I don't think I have ever insulted you personally.  If I have, I apologize.

We should all remember the first commandment... and the second is like unto it, 'love they neighbor as thyself.'

We are neighbors here on this forum and I would like to think we could disagree even strongly without personal attacks.

[Chosen Daughter]

By the way, I wasn't going back to 'that thread' but I must say that you made a personal and insulting comment to me over there.

I have disagreed with you and argued with you (we are all entitled to our opinions) but I don't think I have ever insulted you personally.  If I have, I apologize.

We should all remember the first commandment... and the second is like unto it, 'love they neighbor as thyself.'

We are neighbors here on this forum and I would like to think we could disagree even strongly without personal attacks.

What "that thread" and what personal insult?  If it was about you supporting everything gay it is true.  I cannot see why that would be an insult to you.  You are not secret in your support for homosexuality over Biblical truths.

About my response to you on this thread over universal health care.  You  could have checked to find out if Trump supported universal healthcare before you responding that I am posting "idea's" with no basis.

[DB]

I'm not sure exactly where you get that idea unless  it was the not leave people dying in the street remark.  I've never heard Trump advocate socialized medicine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2015/08/07/no-donald-trump-single-payer-health-care-doesnt-work-incredibly-well-in-canada-scotland/#4abfeaba5a9c

http://ijr.com/2016/02/537107-5-times-donald-trump-praised-socialized-healthcare/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6inQmf96SYQ

[txradioguy]

I'm not sure exactly where you get that idea unless  it was the not leave people dying in the street remark.  I've never heard Trump advocate socialized medicine.

You mean beside the fact he's on record as saying he wants single payer?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@corbe

   I don't recall many people bitching about their premiums pre obummercare @Maj. Bill Martin

Actually, a lot of the pre-existing conditions crowd was bitching about it.

Don't you see the cognitive dissonance in this thread?  Really, in the forum overall on this issue?  You've got one group of people saying that we should have a full repeal, and are upset that more members of Congress won't support it.  However, a full repeal which would include getting rid of the pre-existing conditions protections, and that would make premiums increase for people with pre-existing conditions.  That's just basic math.

But then you've got other people complaining about that exact premium increase, and claiming that's not what was supposed to happen.  @Chosen Daughter and @libertybele,for example.  The funny thing is that some in this same group complaining about a potential increase in premiums for pre-existing conditions are also demanding a complete repeal. 

A full repeal, no replace means that premiums for people with pre-existing conditions are going to increase.  I'm not advocating one way or the other -- I'm just pointing out the mathematical reality.

[Sanguine]

I look at this from a different perspective completely.  It is because of Bammycare that people lost their healthcare, their jobs, their doctors and for the majority of people their premiums skyrocketed.  That is not the fault of President Trump.  Let's place blame where the blame originated.  Bammycare was a nightmare from the very beginning AND Americans were lied to from the onset.  Rising healthcare premiums have been the norm for years; under Bammy though they skyrocketed and now to most their premiums are no longer affordable.

IMHO Trump's only failure right now is not putting his foot down and asking the House to come up with a plan for full REPEAL and replacement.

Well, yes....but, isn't that what we asked him to do?  And, he's not doing it.  Not even close.

[Sanguine]

I agree with President Trump. If John Doe had a heart attack while working for company B and company B decides to eliminate his position and John Doe goes to work for another company and he needs to get onto a different insurance plan ... explain to me why the new insurance company should be able to deny him insurance or raise his rates or add a conditional rider to his plan??  Isn't the reason why we have insurance and pay premiums is to ensure we are covered for an illness/hospitalization/emergencies should the need arise?  Why in the heck would we pay for insurance and pay premiums to never use it?  Why should we be penalized for using our insurance?? To often companies find a way to eliminate their employees when they have a major illness. IMHO the notion that pre-existing conditions raises premiums is absurd ... everyone who uses their insurance has some type of pre-existing condition ... ever had a bad cold or the flu and been to the doctor?  What about the children with speech impediments?  How about the children with ADHD? How about skin rashes or people who have ever broken an arm or a leg? How about people with allergies or asthma? If these people lose their insurance, can those people then be denied coverage for those conditions?  Or is it only select conditions like cancer, heart failure, Multiple Sclerosis, Autism, Parkinson's, etc., you know, the more costly items to treat? The rising cost of healthcare is in large part due to illegals and healthcare fraud and abuse.  I think it is a travesty and very injust to deny coverage to someone who has a catastrophic illness ... should we stop treating people who come down with a disease and only treat people who have mild illnesses that are easily treated or cured?  That's what it's coming to.

I don't have time to give this a full answer right now - back later.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I agree with President Trump. If John Doe had a heart attack while working for company B and company B decides to eliminate his position and John Doe goes to work for another company and he needs to get onto a different insurance plan ... explain to me why the new insurance company should be able to deny him insurance or raise his rates or add a conditional rider to his plan??

Isn't the reason why we have insurance and pay premiums is to ensure we are covered for an illness/hospitalization/emergencies should the need arise?  Why in the heck would we pay for insurance and pay premiums to never use it?  Why should we be penalized for using our insurance??..... IMHO the notion that pre-existing conditions raises premiums is absurd ... everyone who uses their insurance has some type of pre-existing condition ... ever had a bad cold or the flu and been to the doctor?  What about the children with speech impediments?  How about the children with ADHD? How about skin rashes or people who have ever broken an arm or a leg? How about people with allergies or asthma? If these people lose their insurance, can those people then be denied coverage for those conditions?  Or is it only select conditions like cancer, heart failure, Multiple Sclerosis, Autism, Parkinson's, etc., you know, the more costly items to treat? The rising cost of healthcare is in large part due to illegals and healthcare fraud and abuse.  I think it is a travesty and very injust to deny coverage to someone who has a catastrophic illness ... should we stop treating people who come down with a disease and only treat people who have mild illnesses that are easily treated or cured?  That's what it's coming to.

I don't get this.  Do you support a full repeal and the free market, or not?