Author Topic: No One Will Admit It But Never-Trump Conservatives Are Now Officially Vindicated  (Read 9311 times)

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Online DCPatriot

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@DCPatriot

I don't mean to come across that way.  It's more that I get ticked off because it's what I expected.

You expected him to be malleable?   Or, you expected him to break a promise?

...because so far, he's fulfilled more promises  than we've got fingers.  So.  Far.

Praise Jesus it's not Hillary.   

@CatherineofAragon
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 03:03:58 am by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Then blame Dixie, cause Cruz couldn't even win the Bible belt, save his home state and Oklahoma, no way can we assume he was going to take Michigan and Pennsylvania. This becomes a total disconnect with reality.  Conceivably, he could have taken Wisconsin.


Despite the youtube video of what Trump said about Planned Parenthood, he has defunded the international Planned Parenthood and given states the power to defund Planned Parenthood.

Respectfully, we can thank Senator Cruz for a goose egg for the pro-life cause.
I think the reason for that was the incredibly well-timed and conducted disinformation campaign that had tabloid headlines blaring from the end caps near the checkouts in every grocery store that Ted Cruz had Five--no, SEVEN, SEVEN mistresses (do I hear eight?), or that he is the "Annointed of God" which went over like a fart in church in the bible belt. Along with the full court press of "Lyin' Ted" crap on twitter, and his daddy gunning down JFK, (Not to mention his wife practically writing NAFTA), the bullshit just didn't quit.

In a fair head to head race, I think Cruz could have won handily in the southern districts that didn't know him as well as his home state. I really don't see the deep south voting for a Yankee otherwise, had it not been for the anti-Cruz lies. (Hell no, I'll never forget! )
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Wrong on two counts: one, God lets us make mistakes, and two, the only thing that could have gotten Trump elected was Mrs. Clinton.
Yep. Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EasyAce

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According to the Bible, God is involved in the ascension of all leaders to their positions of power.  Doesn't necessarily make them blessings.
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Then He must have been extremely p.o.ed at the United States, if the best we could do for a presidential
race last year was between a crank and a crook.


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Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Online DCPatriot

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A special thanks to @pookie18 !
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Online DCPatriot

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"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Online DCPatriot

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And the hits keep coming!   
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Jazzhead

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I don't know about you but I for one am sick and tired of fighting the same flipping fights we were fighting before the election as we are now.


Can't disagree with that. 

I'm a NeverTrump who is willing to give Trump a chance.  And so far, all in all, he's doing pretty well.   

My frustration is with conservatives in Congress who fail to appreciate the opportunity that Republicans have been given,  and continue to act like spoiled backbenchers.   
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Offline TomSea

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I didn't vote for Steve Bannon.

Trump and Pence have been the biggest pro-life ticket ever and have followed through on their promises.

I certainly did not abandon the pro-life cause, we have all saved babies through Trump and Pence's actions.

Those are standards, those who turned their back on them, that's up to their consciences.

It's a nonsensical debate, where the Cruz supporters disagree with a whole lot of things Cruz stands for.  It's not even worth going into that trap.

Offline TomSea

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I think the reason for that was the incredibly well-timed and conducted disinformation campaign that had tabloid headlines blaring from the end caps near the checkouts in every grocery store that Ted Cruz had Five--no, SEVEN, SEVEN mistresses (do I hear eight?), or that he is the "Annointed of God" which went over like a fart in church in the bible belt. Along with the full court press of "Lyin' Ted" crap on twitter, and his daddy gunning down JFK, (Not to mention his wife practically writing NAFTA), the bullshit just didn't quit.

In a fair head to head race, I think Cruz could have won handily in the southern districts that didn't know him as well as his home state. I really don't see the deep south voting for a Yankee otherwise, had it not been for the anti-Cruz lies. (Hell no, I'll never forget! )

Well, be happy, You Cruz Never Trumpers allowed the death of babies, so that is a big person you are.

I've got standards and I didn't abandon them.

It's not even worth dealing with the nonsensical cynicism of the Cruz Never Trumpers, Cruz campaign lied about what Rubio said about the Bible, Cruz campaign lied in Hawaii, in the Carolinas, about Carson and everywhere.

That's historic fact not lies, news articles show it, call yourself pro-life then, I didn't abandon the babies.  Time for the Cruz Never Trumpers to put on their big boy pants and realize they did.

The Cruz Never Trumpers have shown themselves to be excessively nasty individuals on this topic, so have at it.

Rubio said the Cruz campaign was the dirtiest he'd ever seen.

At least, Trump said things to people's faces and I'm not sure if just saying what was on the national enquirer that Trump said is that bad. Trump did not say Cruz's father killed JFK.

Looks like the King Cruz followers need to check their facts.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 12:48:27 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Cruz has not been a governor like Nikki Haley, Rick Perry and Scott Walker, Cruz expounds on Limbaughism to a large degree and that's not bad. But these others haven't had the luxury to just regurgitate their views, they have had to act.

Offline TomSea

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Somehow those in the Rocky Mountain West where Cruz won a number of primaries were able to know about him. This logic totally escapes me and it is a trap to debate this topic. Best to have one's say though.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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This article is a real reach, and disingenuous to boot.  The key point made by the author at the outset isn't backed up by the rest of the article  He leads off with this:

Quote
It has been obvious for quite a while that Trump was never going to being able, or even willing, to fulfill most of his often insanely unrealistic campaign promises. It was also clear that he was very likely to move to the left, just as Arnold Schwarzenegger did here in California if things didn’t immediately work out for him politically.

But the author then goes on to highlight four "broken promises" that largely condemn Trump for "abandoning promises" that most conservatives didn't support from the outset:

Quote
Just this week Trump drastically altered his position on:
•China and the prospect of his promised a trade war with them
•The importance of NATO
•Steve Bannon’s role in his White House
•Whether Wikileaks is good, or bad

I'd suggest some of these aren't even "promises" at all.   Some of them haven't even happened yet, and are supported by nothing more than leaks from a press corps that hates him.  But leaving the "broken promise" aspect aside, never-Trumpers are by definition not members of the alt-right.  And who but a member of the alt-right would be 1) in favor of a massive trade war and tariffs with China; 2) support trashing NATO, 3) be upset if Steve Bannon's influence was reduced? 4) support WikiLeaks? Most mainstream conservatives despise Steve Bannon and his trillion dollar infrastructure plan -- so why is this guy lamenting Bannons (speculated only) fall from favor?  Every single one of these things he lists are things that neverTrumpers like the Bushes would actually support.  So to list these things as vindication of NeverTrumpers not voting for the guy is just absurd.

One last point:
Quote
The campaign version of Donald Trump is officially dead.

This is the anti-Trump argument that bugs me the most, because the truth is that a great many conservatives didn't like the campaign version of Donald Trump.  At one point, he promised universal health coverage for everyone, and conservatives went nuts.  But for all it's flaws, that's not what RyanCare did.  That was a promise on the left he was willing to abandon.   He made some statements suggesting he'd actually support Planned Parenthood, might actually believe in global warming, etc..  And in each case, when it came time to actually take action, he's come down on the conservative side.   Heck, conservatives should be happy that he's broken some of his campaign promises, because some of them weren't very good in the first place.  Almost uniformly, he's actually been more conservative as a President than most of us had any right to expect based on his campaign.

I'm not saying the guy is a paragon of conservatism, but at least so far, he's been better than advertised in terms of substance.  And while there may well come a time where his actual actions (rather than press rumors and supposition) as President do amount to a move to the left, that hasn't happened yet.  So maybe the author should keep the cork in his champagne for just a bit longer, and hold off on celebrating the fall of the Republic until it actually occurs.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 01:38:32 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline EC

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Aye. He has been better than expected (or feared) so far.

Especially with regards to abortion - is there anything more he can do now other than to wait for Congress to get off their arse? I don't know of anything.  :shrug:
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Aye. He has been better than expected (or feared) so far.

Especially with regards to abortion - is there anything more he can do now other than to wait for Congress to get off their arse? I don't know of anything.  :shrug:

Yeah, he's done a damn good job on that as well -- much better than expected given his long pro-choice history.

On issue after issue, he's pretty much been surprisingly conservative considering some of the weird crap he was saying during the campaign.  And actually, I've seen other people make the same argument this guy has -- reciting "broken promises" that those other people never would have supported in the first place.

One other thing -- the author says that Trump is the type who is likely to go left if he doesn't have initial success on the right.  Assuming the author is correct, then isn't that the strongest possible argument for conservatives to get out there and support him now, so he doesn't end up going left?  In what universe does a conservative who actually believes that simultaneously spend all that energy trashing the guy?

Offline skeeter

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If we all admit the Never Trumpers were right will they THEN shut up and move on?

Offline driftdiver

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If we all admit the Never Trumpers were right will they THEN shut up and move on?

@skeeter

No, they will not.   Its about them being right, not whats good for the country, or at least trying to make things better.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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If we all admit the Never Trumpers were right will they THEN shut up and move on?

Some of them have -- there are some former "nevertrumpers" here who have been willing to give him a shot, and support him when he does the right thing.  But then, there are clowns like this guy who will actually condemn things they'd otherwise support just so they have something on which to attack him.  It's pathetic.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 01:40:30 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

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You expected him to be malleable?   Or, you expected him to break a promise?

...because so far, he's fulfilled more promises  than we've got fingers.  So.  Far.

Praise Jesus it's not Hillary.   

@CatherineofAragon

@DCPatriot

No, I didn't expect him to be malleable.  I expected him to be the man he's always been---without ideology.  I read an article today that said he's governing on impulse and by applause.  I think that's pretty accurate. 

He's flipped on quite a few things, you know. 

I just can't take the "not Hillary" excuse anymore.  If Trump didn't do a thing he promised on the campaign trail, three years from now some would still be saying, "But he's not Hillary!"  Our standards have to be higher than that.

Online DCPatriot

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@DCPatriot

No, I didn't expect him to be malleable.  I expected him to be the man he's always been---without ideology.  I read an article today that said he's governing on impulse and by applause.  I think that's pretty accurate. 

He's flipped on quite a few things, you know. 

I just can't take the "not Hillary" excuse anymore.  If Trump didn't do a thing he promised on the campaign trail, three years from now some would still be saying, "But he's not Hillary!"  Our standards have to be higher than that.


You miss the entire point of "It's not Hillary!"

IMO, you're not capable of comprehending it, either.

...carry on.    :seeya:     :seeya:
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Offline TomSea

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@DCPatriot

No, I didn't expect him to be malleable.  I expected him to be the man he's always been---without ideology.  I read an article today that said he's governing on impulse and by applause.  I think that's pretty accurate. 

He's flipped on quite a few things, you know. 

I just can't take the "not Hillary" excuse anymore.  If Trump didn't do a thing he promised on the campaign trail, three years from now some would still be saying, "But he's not Hillary!"  Our standards have to be higher than that.



They've already made some progress on this issue alone.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Aye. He has been better than expected (or feared) so far.

Especially with regards to abortion - is there anything more he can do now other than to wait for Congress to get off their arse? I don't know of anything.  :shrug:
There really wasn't anything he COULD ever do. Even if Congress passed all the stunt legislation it wanted, until they can get SCOTUS to stop recognizing stare decisis abortion's still going to be legal.
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Offline TomSea

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They have defunded planned parenthood,  Trump has had to deal with an awful threat from overseas, a crisis in North Korea, jobs are up, border crossings are down, NATO allies paid up. I guess detractors can just point at the healthcare bill.

Senator Rand Paul had his bill; and most say that wasn't very good. It's not an easy situation.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 05:58:36 pm by TomSea »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Well, be happy, You Cruz Never Trumpers allowed the death of babies, so that is a big person you are.

I've got standards and I didn't abandon them.

It's not even worth dealing with the nonsensical cynicism of the Cruz Never Trumpers, Cruz campaign lied about what Rubio said about the Bible, Cruz campaign lied in Hawaii, in the Carolinas, about Carson and everywhere.

That's historic fact not lies, news articles show it, call yourself pro-life then, I didn't abandon the babies.  Time for the Cruz Never Trumpers to put on their big boy pants and realize they did.

The Cruz Never Trumpers have shown themselves to be excessively nasty individuals on this topic, so have at it.

Rubio said the Cruz campaign was the dirtiest he'd ever seen.

At least, Trump said things to people's faces and I'm not sure if just saying what was on the national enquirer that Trump said is that bad. Trump did not say Cruz's father killed JFK.

Looks like the King Cruz followers need to check their facts.
You down to calling us baby killers now?
That would cost you some teeth in person, (characterization deleted to save the Mods the trouble).
Last I saw Roe v Wade hasn't been overturned. The abattoirs are still in operation, not one damned clinic has closed. That isn't our fault.

I was pointing out why Cruz didn't win the South. You can deny and dissimilate, but that does not address the campaign of lies thrown at Cruz, which was unprecedented in American History, partly because of the technology involved, and partly because the MSM parroted it, thinking they could beat Trump but feeling really shaky about Cruz.

As for the National Enquirer, David Pecker and Trump are old friends. If you don't know who David Pecker is, google it. It was part of a coordinated campaign. But I didn't say Trump said it, so maybe you are the one who needs to check and see what I posted.

Those articles, about mistresses which did not exist, ties to a "Cult", "stealing" delegates the same way anyone else in history acquired them, and other well repeated nonsense were carefully timed to affect demographics in the regions involved in primary contests, as those contests came up, right down to the "Daddy killed JFK' nonsense for New England.

You can deny it all you want. I seriously doubt I was the only one to notice. As modern propaganda goes, it's textbook. It was probably the best conducted, most comprehensive, well targeted smear campaign in history. It still has people wanting to deny us our rights and trying to push us out of the discussion, and when that won't work (because we're not going anywhere) you disrupt the discussion.
But, like I said, that is one for the textbooks, some of us are trying to move on and get with the program.
If you "WINNERS!" will quit with the hateful nonsense, maybe the rest of us can get back to discussing America after the Primaries. Or not.

Like many who supported Cruz in the primaries, I praise Trump when he gets it right, question the questionable, and will decry things he does which I think are rash, stupid, or dangerous just like any other POTUS. If you WINNERS would quit fighting the battle you WON!!, Maybe we could move on and deal with what is on our plate today instead of digging the leftovers out of the garbage. It appears you'd rather disrupt rational discussion with this crap, attacking those who don't worship your idol.

I am done responding to your disruptive BS.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 06:29:11 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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If you WINNERS would quit fighting the battle you WON!!, Maybe we could move on and deal with what is on our plate today instead of digging the leftovers out of the garbage. It appears you'd rather disrupt rational discussion with this crap, attacking those who don't worship your idol.


I think that is a legitimate point.  Way too much refighting of old battles.  But in fairness, it should be pointed out that the article that started this thread is by a nevertrumper trying to keep fighting that battle.  So to the extent there is commentary on this particular author/article, I think that's legit.

But again, you're absolutely right about those who insist on rubbing their perceived victory in the face of others.  It' up to the rest of us to try to move past that, and deal with what is left to us now.

And for the record, I agree that the way Trump treated most of his rivals in the primary was despicable.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 06:34:19 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »