Author Topic: GOP lawmakers in North Carolina introduce bill to restore ban on same-sex marriage  (Read 48691 times)

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Silver Pines

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@mirraflake

You just don't get it.  You went to all that trouble to try and prove to me that men are visual,  which I never denied in the first place.


Offline Hoodat

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That's the easiest admission I've ever had to make.   Of course He's the Son of God.   And damn right he stood up to the bible-thumpers of His time.

That's funny, considering that Jesus was a 'Bible thumper'.  Look at his testimony against satan in the wilderness.  Instead of arguing, Jesus resorted to scripture every time.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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No, what Yeshua did was to lead us all in keeping Torah. He is the exact example of what you call 'ancient prejudices'. He is the singular pinnacle of how to keep the Law, the gold standard.

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Matthew 5:17


Through Christ who strenghens me, I can do all things.  Only through Christ can the law be fulfilled in me.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Matthew 5:17


Through Christ who strenghens me, I can do all things.  Only through Christ can the law be fulfilled in me.

Precisely right.
 888high58888

Offline INVAR

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Jesus was courage personified - he rejected the ancient prejudices depicted in the Old Testament and stood up to the "bible-thumpers" of his time.

You are such an ignoramus on basic Christianity as to be laughable.  All Jesus did was quote the Old Testament scriptures.  IN CONTEXT.  He was hated for it, declared a Blasphemer for doing so.  Even when hanging, crucified he was quoting the scriptures - because they were about HIM.    Jesus did not 'stand up against' "Bible Thumpers" of His day. HE WAS ONE (as your derogatory suggests).  As others have provided you the scripture from Matthew 5:17-18 - from His own mouth He says He did not come to destroy, but to fulfill.  Until heaven and earth pass away (last I looked they are still here) - not one little mark will pass from the Law, until all is fulfilled and His Kingdom comes down from On High.    Contrary to your assertions, He stood up against the Traditions of the Elders, who ADDED their own passages to scripture to make themselves arbiters of who God would accept and what things people must do to be allowed any access to the temple.  Jesus took a special effort to denounce them because they KNEW whom HE was, and REJECTED HIM, in favor of their OWN Traditions and especially because Jesus would not submit to THEIR authority or the perversion of scripture they instituted to make themselves as God.

You reject the bible itself as having any authority or being breathed from God, and instead have lofted the god of your imagination as having the only moral authority anyone can consider.  IN this way - you are that which you accuse us of being.

Jesus preached love and tolerance,  empathy and humility.   You and I may disagree about the meaning and import of Jesus' words,  but cut this crap that I don't "believe" Him.

Then why do you not do the things which He says?  John 1: 1-3, 14 tell us plainly Whom Jesus Was from the beginning.  The very Laws you reject, HE WROTE and handed to Moses.  If you knew Jesus beyond the 'philosopher', you wouldn't be pushing evil as a good and justifying abomination upon the people here.  The truth is, you do NOT believe in Yeshua/Jesus - but instead believe in a Jesus that conforms to your mindset rather than you conforming to His.

Jesus did not preach love and tolerance.  Not in the manner you and the Leftists use that phrase.  He revealed the Father - whom mankind was cut off from.  He was preaching a Gospel of reconciliation with the Father, and likewise with fellow man.  He preached the spiritual INTENT of the Law beyond just the physical and revealed the Father's heart towards us all.  Jesus Himself states that we must overcome sin, that we must be grafted into Him to put on the mind of Him and the Father.  His message was one that leads to LIFE.  The message you are preaching is one that will lead to DEATH.

Pushing homosexuality as virtuous is pushing the mindset of Satan and discarding the Word of God and Christ Himself.  Eternal Death is the wages earned for such, especially when you have witnesses here showing you the truth that you reject.  Truly it will be more tolerable in that Day of Judgment for the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah than it will be for those who are witness to the truth - and reject it in favor of their own gods.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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That's funny, considering that Jesus was a 'Bible thumper'.  Look at his testimony against satan in the wilderness.  Instead of arguing, Jesus resorted to scripture every time.
That guy is trying to create his own religion of Bible-hating sodomists. 

I have already suggested he go try to find some followers in the Middle East.

He won't have too many followers, as most already follow another guy.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 04:30:50 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline truth_seeker

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Jesus did not preach love and tolerance. 

True enough. Here is a guy in colonial America. My gramps, Rev. "Hatevil Nutter."

He saw to the lashing of three Quaker women. That was before the nation's policy against "established" religion, while the puritans still claimed the upper hand, in our faire colonies.

Google Rev. Hatevil Nutter.

https://thompsongenealogy.com/2011/04/hatevil-nutter-was-a-cruel-religious-hypocrite/
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline INVAR

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True enough. Here is a guy in colonial America. My gramps, Rev. "Hatevil Nutter."

He saw to the lashing of three Quaker women. That was before the nation's policy against "established" religion, while the puritans still claimed the upper hand, in our faire colonies.

Google Rev. Hatevil Nutter.

Well, how about you provide us the scripture wherein Jesus preached tolerance for those practicing and promoting sin if you think pointing out the promotion of evil is religious hypocrisy.  Do note, that if you are going to cite the woman caught in adultery - do not forget the part about "go and sin no more".

I know, anyone daring to say such a thing is a religious hypocrite.  I guess Jesus must have been one too.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline roamer_1

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The truth is, you do NOT believe in Yeshua/Jesus - but instead believe in a Jesus that conforms to your mindset rather than you conforming to His.


Offline roamer_1

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True enough. Here is a guy in colonial America. My gramps, Rev. "Hatevil Nutter."

He saw to the lashing of three Quaker women. That was before the nation's policy against "established" religion, while the puritans still claimed the upper hand, in our faire colonies.

Google Rev. Hatevil Nutter.

So what?

Offline mirraflake

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Hitler on his deathbed repents and accepts Jesus Christ and confesses to God and goes to Heaven.

Two gay men who have believed in God all their lives, loved each other all their lives, did great community service, helped the poor, never spoke bad about anyone, model citizens helping others  go to Hell.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 05:20:48 pm by mirraflake »

Offline driftdiver

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Hitler on his deathbed repents and accepts Jesus Christ and confesses to God and goes to Heaven.

Two gay men who have believed in God all their lives, loved each other all their lives, did great community service, helped the poor, never spoke bad about anyone, model citizens helping others  go to Hell.

Not if they repent and accept Jesus as their Savior.

Same rules apply for all.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline mirraflake

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Not if they repent and accept Jesus as their Savior.

Same rules apply for all.

No it points out the ridiculousness of man's interpreted rules in the Bible.

Offline musiclady

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I agree on all points save one. Someone has to counter the arguments brought to try to justify abomination. As long as they are propped up, we are obligated to take them down lest someone actually believe them and be decieved.

If someone breaks bottles on your sidewalk, you still have to sweep up the glass or bear responsibility for the cuts on the neighbor kids' feet.

Point well taken.  The lies need to be countered with truth.

@Smokin Joe
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline driftdiver

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No it points out the ridiculousness of man's interpreted rules in the Bible.

huh, who else would 'interpret' the Bible?  a gerbil?

If you don't want to follow the rule then don't.  But dont be a hater.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline musiclady

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I resent your slander, ML.  I may have issues with the Bible (especially the Old Testament to which I ascribe no special authority), but I love Jesus Christ and consider him the preeminent moral philosopher of the age.   I take Jesus' words very seriously - and the passage in Matthew 19:12 demands serious analysis and respect.   Jesus was courage personified - he rejected the ancient prejudices depicted in the Old Testament and stood up to the "bible-thumpers" of his time.

Jesus preached love and tolerance,  empathy and humility.   You and I may disagree about the meaning and import of Jesus' words,  but cut this crap that I don't "believe" Him.   What I don't "believe" is INVAR and his agenda of cruelty.

I didn't "slander" you @Jazzhead .  You've said here multiple times on this thread that you don't believe what Jesus Himself said/says.   I'm not going to go back and find all the posts where you denied Jesus' words, but you've done in multiple times.

As others have said, and I have said, you don't have the right to make up your own Jesus and then say you love him.  To love Him requires obedience to His commandments.

As for the Old Testament, it's been said by others, but Jesus was there from the beginning.  He is the I AM, Creator, Giver of Life, who lowered Himself to become flesh so that He could die for us and redeem us from our sin.

What you don't believe is that Jesus meant what He said.  You don't believe that the Jesus who loves us is also the God of wrath and justice.

In other words, you don't believe the Christ of the Scripture, and you've said so repeatedly.

No slander.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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I see that the other way around.

It IS the other way around.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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@mirraflake

I'm sorry, mirraflake, but I'm sitting here laughing...literally.  Keep it up, I'm enjoying it.

I need this edumacashun.  No one ever told me about the birds and the bees.  I see horizons opening up before me!

Ain't it fun to be educated by a young whippersnapper about all this birds and bees stuff?

If it weren't for flake, I wouldn't know ANYTHING about sex.   Good thing he's here to help us out.  :silly:  :silly:

@CatherineofAragon
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Not if they repent and accept Jesus as their Savior.

Same rules apply for all.

That's the part that bugs liberals.

They want special treatment, not equal treatment.  They want  special favors, not justice, or even mercy.

They can't stand the idea that there are absolutes that can't be changed by their wishful thinking and imaginary gods.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Well, how about you provide us the scripture wherein Jesus preached tolerance for those practicing and promoting sin if you think pointing out the promotion of evil is religious hypocrisy.  Do note, that if you are going to cite the woman caught in adultery - do not forget the part about "go and sin no more".

I know, anyone daring to say such a thing is a religious hypocrite.  I guess Jesus must have been one too.

The liberal atheists of the board can't hide their liberalism because they so desperately cling to stereotypes. Portraying the Puritans as religious zealots is an old standby but its also false. The Puritans were quite forward thinking by most European standards of the day. Cotton Mather was an early researcher into cross pollination of crops noting that "we breed stock for better strains, plants may be the same". He even worked with the natives to test his theories because they used hardier strains of crops. He also experimented with early forms of vaccination (Variolation) which did get him into trouble with the church but it passed.

Increase Mather wrote a scathing repudiation of those accusing other of witchcraft during the Salem witch trials. He pointed out that witchcraft isn't real and that the devil had come to Salem town under the guise of those who bear false witness against their neighbors. The church was the only court of the day so they get the blame but they were trying to shut down the greed/lust/envy driven hysteria.

The left behaves as if anywhere from dozens to hundreds of women were killed due to the suspicion of witchcraft. It actually sounds like somewhere between 5 or 10 women died in relation to the witch trials and most look like accidental deaths or deaths due to illness. At least 2 was burned by a lynch mob who burned a cabin where she was being held.

Online libertybele

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Hitler on his deathbed repents and accepts Jesus Christ and confesses to God and goes to Heaven.

Two gay men who have believed in God all their lives, loved each other all their lives, did great community service, helped the poor, never spoke bad about anyone, model citizens helping others  go to Hell.

We aren't the judge, nor are we to judge.

2 Corinthians 5:10  "For all of us must appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each may receive recompense for what has bee done in the body, whether good or evil".
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline truth_seeker

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Well, how about you provide us the scripture wherein Jesus preached tolerance for those practicing and promoting sin if you think pointing out the promotion of evil is religious hypocrisy.  Do note, that if you are going to cite the woman caught in adultery - do not forget the part about "go and sin no more".

I know, anyone daring to say such a thing is a religious hypocrite.  I guess Jesus must have been one too.

The incident had nothing to do with adultery. It had only to do with the Quaker women practicing their religion's beliefs. One such belief held against a professional class of preachers, btw.

The Puritan preacher Nutter had them stripped to the waist, whipped, and paraded from town to town.

The Puritans held the upper hand. Same back in Merrey Olde Englande, for a time, when Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell went to chopping the king's head off.

Later the Founders of our Civil Government, rejected churches so powerful, the would "hold the upper hand."

*Ironically the puritans left Europe, in order to practice their denomination, only to immediately desire to force it upon others.

You can quote Bible verses until the cows come home, but if our Founders intended them to be civil laws, they had the means to make that be so. They did not do so.



"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Hoodat

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Hitler on his deathbed repents and accepts Jesus Christ and confesses to God and goes to Heaven.

Two gay men who have believed in God all their lives, loved each other all their lives, did great community service, helped the poor, never spoke bad about anyone, model citizens helping others  go to Hell.

That quite the self-serving view of salvation you have there.  Have you ever looked at salvation as an opportunity rather than an accomplishment?

I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.


John 10:10


It all has to do with getting us back to living in the Garden.  It isn't about some free ticket into heaven.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Mesaclone

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You're seeing what you want to see.  Your use of the term bible thumpers is derogatory to the Word of God.  Why don't you say he stood up to people who were misinterpreting the Word of GodInterpreting it to mean what they wanted it to mean instead of what God wants it to mean?   Perhaps because that hits too close to home?

The 'Church' is made up of Gods people.  We are all fallen and to distance yourself from the Church is to distance your self from God.  Jesus died for our sins but they are still sins, and if we don't turn away from them they will result in our destruction.   Homosexuality goes against Gods plan for us, and as such it is a destructive force.  Just as anything else that is against Gods will.   

See the bolded....because those points are correct.  Jesus stood up to those exact folks...call them what you will (and bible thumpers is as good a descriptor as any). What Jesus did was brave, smart and wise. Jazz is following exactly in those footsteps, standing up to the modern day versions of Pharissees...what we today call bible thumpers.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline mirraflake

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That quite the self-serving view of salvation you have there.  Have you ever looked at salvation as an opportunity rather than an accomplishment?

It all has to do with getting us back to living in the Garden.  It isn't about some free ticket into heaven.

I really don't think God is that rigid and I'm quite sure he takes each case differently. If God sends those 2 gay men for Hell for doing good all their lives he is not a God I would respect.

What about the atheist or agnostic who is the same,  has done good all his life but God takes him away in an accident before he can repent or accept. God sending him to Hell? I don't think so.

If he did ..God sounds like a vengeful a$$hole but we know he is not.

@Hoodat
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 06:38:31 pm by mirraflake »