GOP lawmakers in North Carolina introduce bill to restore ban on same-sex marriage

[roamer_1]

Absolutely.  There are women who are immoral enough to do porn on their own, but many, many, many have either been abused as young girls or trafficked and sold (as early as 5 or 6, and sometimes by their families), and when they get older they feel they have no other options.

@musiclady
It is not my intention to diminish your position - I will largely agree. But lest we venture too terribly far down the  'women as victims' path, I would submit that women can, more often than not, walk away from sin - The weight of it will fall upon them... Just as I could have (really at any given moment) walked away from the party lifestyle, and turn toward Life - The weight of my sins, all the way along, fell upon me, regardless of the circumstances that brought me to that path.

That isn't to deny your position - Women are quite probably led into that life, and kept there by addiction. Some no doubt, have been forced into it. But it is the sad, sad truth that in most cases, all it would take to walk away is an ounce of courage and a new pair of Keds.

Many do figure it out later in life, and do walk away. I know, because they are my kind of folks.  :)

My point (with which I'm sure you agree) is that pornography degrades women, whether they choose to degrade themselves, or they are trapped and owned by pimps who force them into pornography.

And I fully believe that it diminishes, entraps and emasculates the men who view it.

I concur. Absolutely, I do.

btw, since this is a thread about NC's wise decision to restore their ban on same-sex "marriage" I will reiterate my support of a state making laws suitable for their particular state without interference from the federal government.

Of course. And it should be praised that they had the wherewithal to do it. Would that it becomes a trend.
But I think not... Doom approaches. Baphomet sits where the 10 Commandments once stood, and the influence is so blatant that those who have fallen feel no shame at all. Barring revival (which is my fervent prayer), liberty will (has) become libertine, as the people bow down to demons.

[musiclady]

I can see you missed my point entirely concerning correction of agendas.

Sheesh brother...... give it up.

[musiclady]

@musiclady
It is not my intention to diminish your position - I will largely agree. But lest we venture too terribly far down the  'women as victims' path, I would submit that women can, more often than not, walk away from sin - The weight of it will fall upon them... Just as I could have (really at any given moment) walked away from the party lifestyle, and turn toward Life - The weight of my sins, all the way along, fell upon me, regardless of the circumstances that brought me to that path.

That isn't to deny your position - Women are quite probably led into that life, and kept there by addiction. Some no doubt, have been forced into it. But it is the sad, sad truth that in most cases, all it would take to walk away is an ounce of courage and a new pair of Keds.

Many do figure it out later in life, and do walk away. I know, because they are my kind of folks.  :)

I concur. Absolutely, I do.


Of course. And it should be praised that they had the wherewithal to do it. Would that it becomes a trend.
But I think not... Doom approaches. Baphomet sits where the 10 Commandments once stood, and the influence is so blatant that those who have fallen feel no shame at all. Barring revival (which is my fervent prayer), liberty will (has) become libertine, as the people bow down to demons.

I know that it wasn't your point to diminish my position, and I accept your caveat that many women do what they do by choice.

But here's a further thought on that..........  when a man is getting off by watching porn, how does he know whether or not the object of his lust was trafficked at 12 and can't get out at 17 or 18, or has chosen a life of degradation?  How does one know if she is a victim or a volunteer?

As you said, it's someone's daughter.  And some of them have been forced by men to do things that no human being should ever be forced to do (it happens with boys as well, some of whom may be in those same porn films).

I would think that any man with a decent bone in his body would think it through, as you have, and give it up.

Our daughter is working in a Christian organization with women in their 30's who were trafficked as little girls.  We have no idea the burdens they bear, and the shackles they would love to get rid of, but are struggling with decades later.

Fortunately, the Christian community has awakened to the reality of what is happening with trafficking, and are picking up the gauntlet and ministering to many of the victims.

But it's a long, hard slog for these ladies and they need our prayer.


(Sorry for the sermon!  I know you're on the right side of things, and I'm glad you 'get it.'  ^-^)

[Smokin Joe]

Heck go to the local mall.  Here Victorias Secret has 15 foot tall posters of women in their underwear right on the food court.   Much more provocative then Sears ever had.

True, that, but in 1965, that would not have happened.

[EC]

But here's a further thought on that..........  when a man is getting off by watching porn, how does he know whether or not the object of his lust was trafficked at 12 and can't get out at 17 or 18, or has chosen a life of degradation?  How does one know if she is a victim or a volunteer?

There is such a thing as ethical porn.

[musiclady]

There is such a thing as ethical porn.

Is it safe for me to click on that link?   

[EC]

Sure - I'd not do that to you. No pictures, it's from Marie Claire.

Well there is a haeder image, but it's stock photos level safe.

[Cripplecreek]

I know that it wasn't your point to diminish my position, and I accept your caveat that many women do what they do by choice.

But here's a further thought on that..........  when a man is getting off by watching porn, how does he know whether or not the object of his lust was trafficked at 12 and can't get out at 17 or 18, or has chosen a life of degradation?  How does one know if she is a victim or a volunteer?

As you said, it's someone's daughter.  And some of them have been forced by men to do things that no human being should ever be forced to do (it happens with boys as well, some of whom may be in those same porn films).

I would think that any man with a decent bone in his body would think it through, as you have, and give it up.

Our daughter is working in a Christian organization with women in their 30's who were trafficked as little girls.  We have no idea the burdens they bear, and the shackles they would love to get rid of, but are struggling with decades later.

Fortunately, the Christian community has awakened to the reality of what is happening with trafficking, and are picking up the gauntlet and ministering to many of the victims.

But it's a long, hard slog for these ladies and they need our prayer.


(Sorry for the sermon!  I know you're on the right side of things, and I'm glad you 'get it.'  ^-^)

I've read that males in porn face worse emotional degradation than the women. They're simply not as important to the business as the females are throwaways who tend to make a very small fraction of what the women make. You could count the true male porn stars through history on one hand.

Male porn stars tend to land in gay porn because it pays better despite being even more degrading. Most of them declare that they aren't gay despite acting in gay porn but in my eyes that makes it a form of rape.

[musiclady]

Sure - I'd not do that to you. No pictures, it's from Marie Claire.

Well there is a haeder image, but it's stock photos level safe.

Sorry.  No sale.

You still don't know the histories of the women and what kind of abuse led them to such low self image that they sell themselves.

At any rate, the fact that there are young women into porn doesn't help the argument that it's a good thing.  It's still degrading.  It's still sin.  It still diminishes what's real and substitutes God-created pleasure with dirty pictures on a screen.

Porn diminishes us all, no matter what popular, liberal culture proclaims it to be.

Just like they have done with homosexual "marriage" they are engaging in a propaganda campaign to make what is evil good, and what is good, evil.

[DiogenesLamp]

No one here is defending promiscuity.   Heck, as I've said before,  I support gay marriage because it provides a respectable alternative to promiscuity. 

This only tells me that you haven't really looked into how "gay marriage"  works out in practice.  The norm is that they are "swingers",  and it is fully expected from both participants that they will have what they call "sex"  with other people.    Of the millions of male "gays",  only a tiny percentage of them want to get "married."   Of that tiny percentage who want to pretend to be "married",   it is an even tinier percentage that even attempts to practice "monogamy."   

The vast bulk of "gay"  marriages are "open"  marriages.   This "monogamy"  stuff is mostly just a fairytale in that community. 


Go ask your friends (Individually)  if they are completely monogamous,  or if they are old,  if they used to be monogamous.   You may get a surprise. 

You want to push gays back into the shadows,  where responsible behavior isn't rewarded or respected,  and instant gratification rules.    You want gay men to marry straight women, and deny their wives a lifetime of gratification.     

What I want has no relationship to the motives you have imparted to me.   What I want is for "normal"  to be Normal,  and "sick"  to remain sick.   I want the war on reality to stop.   I want society to do those things which will help to make it stable and prosperous,   and tolerating homosexuals,  abortion,  transgenders,  drugs, feminism  and assorted other dysfunctional practices and ideas,  is the exact opposite of a stable and prosperous society. 

[Smokin Joe]

There is such a thing as ethical porn.

I guess it depends on what ethics you use: (from that site)

Yet for the majority of these women, their main concern isn’t about whether enjoying it without bae is a form of cheating. Instead, it’s whether the women in the clips are being treated well, and whether the porn they’re watching is perpetuating sexual stereotypes – basically, whether it’s ‘ethical’ or not.

The primary concern here is whether actors aren't nonconsensually chained and flogged and whether the social justice bias fits? Consider "bae" is a slang acronym for "before anyone else".

[musiclady]

I've read that males in porn face worse emotional degradation than the women. They're simply not as important to the business as the females are throwaways who tend to make a very small fraction of what the women make. You could count the true male porn stars through history on one hand.

Male porn stars tend to land in gay porn because it pays better despite being even more degrading. Most of them declare that they aren't gay despite acting in gay porn but in my eyes that makes it a form of rape.

It IS a form of rape, and I would venture to say that men do face at least as great an emotional degradation, or more than women.

Little boys who are raped by men (and a few by women) and grow up with no choices in their lives are no less victims than the girls are.

Sin is ugly.

[roamer_1]

How does one know if she is a victim or a volunteer?

TRUE.

As you said, it's someone's daughter.  And some of them have been forced by men to do things that no human being should ever be forced to do (it happens with boys as well, some of whom may be in those same porn films).

I would think that any man with a decent bone in his body would think it through, as you have, and give it up.

You give me too much credit. It was the Spirit that whispered that particular thought to me... At a rather inopportune time... The epiphany which followed was mechanical and automatic - Simple logic. I can make no claim upon it.

Our daughter is working in a Christian organization with women in their 30's who were trafficked as little girls.  We have no idea the burdens they bear, and the shackles they would love to get rid of, but are struggling with decades later.

Fortunately, the Christian community has awakened to the reality of what is happening with trafficking, and are picking up the gauntlet and ministering to many of the victims.

But it's a long, hard slog for these ladies and they need our prayer.

That explains your emphasis, and accredits your position with inside-knowledge and experience. My BIL is highly sensitive to addictions, and while his ministry comes right out of his own direct experience, his emphasis is likewise laser-centered on that problem. The stories he can tell would curl your hair.

I apologize if I seem less concerned - I am not - My focus is on that path that I once walked down, and that is where I stand my guard. Why they are on that path is of less concern to me than that they are on that path... I know where it goes. I'll do everything I can to pluck them off of it.

(Sorry for the sermon!  I know you're on the right side of things, and I'm glad you 'get it.'  ^-^)

Not at all sister! Preach it!

[Jazzhead]

This only tells me that you haven't really looked into how "gay marriage"  works out in practice.  The norm is that they are "swingers",  and it is fully expected from both participants that they will have what they call "sex"  with other people.

You don't know the "norm" anymore than I do.  Projecting such conclusions based on anecdotal evidence is fraught with unreliability.   

  Go ask your friends (Individually)  if they are completely monogamous,  or if they are old,  if they used to be monogamous.   You may get a surprise. 

I know, or have known, four same sex couples well enough to have an idea of the answer to your question (three male couples and one female couple).   I believe in my heart of hearts that each is/was a monogamous relationship,  and each lasted/has lasted over 20 years.   In the one case,  the partner died a long, slow, excruciating death from cancer and her partner stuck with her to the end.   (Probably saved a lot of Christian taxpayers a lot of money, I say bitterly.  And, yeah,  I am estranged from the Church out of bitterness;  bitterness at the sort of arbitrary cruelty practiced by those who think they know the mind of God.)   
 

   I want society to do those things which will help to make it stable and prosperous,   and tolerating homosexuals . . . and assorted other dysfunctional practices and ideas,  is the exact opposite of a stable and prosperous society.

May I respectfully request,  if only out of a sense of Christian brotherhood and compassion,  that you cease thinking of homosexuals as "sick" and "dysfunctional" people and instead as your neighbors, family members or colleagues. 

[roamer_1]

True, that, but in 1965, that would not have happened.

It is truly stunning how far we've gone down the drain in the course of my lifetime.
I pine for Mayberry RFD. How anyone can think we have it better now completely escapes me.

[roamer_1]

There is such a thing as ethical porn.

Wow. 
That article is insane.

[Jazzhead]

It is truly stunning how far we've gone down the drain in the course of my lifetime.
I pine for Mayberry RFD. How anyone can think we have it better now completely escapes me.

There was never any Mayberry RFD.   That was a TV show, not real life.   My neighbors are good neighbors, willing to help out in a pinch, even though in your eyes they're just freaks who are going to hell. 

[mirraflake]

It is truly stunning how far we've gone down the drain in the course of my lifetime.
I pine for Mayberry RFD. How anyone can think we have it better now completely escapes me.

Yeah the Mayberry 1965 where blacks had to ride on the back of the bus, use separate restrooms, sit  in the back of the movie theatre.

Women had little job opportunities and rarely could escape the daily grind in most cases and very little help to escape a abused spouse.

Religious dogma was so strict a woman thought she would go to hell if she left her worthless husband

Sexual molestation was covered up and hid away. No help for the abused.



No vested pensions laws yet so companies would fire a worker or workers  a week before retirement so they did not have to pay out the pension

No air conditioning.

Very little education opportunities beyond HS unless your family came from means.Smart people stuck in dead end manual labor jobs.

1965 Mayberry was not as great as you make it remember.


@roamer_1

[roamer_1]

There was never any Mayberry RFD.   That was a TV show, not real life.   

You are stone dead wrong. I grew up in a life very akin to Mayberry. And it's getting harder and harder to find.

My neighbors are good neighbors, willing to help out in a pinch, even though in your eyes they're just freaks who are going to hell.

We are ALL freaks who are deserving, if not going to hell. Why are they any different?

[mirraflake]

You are stone dead wrong. I grew up in a life very akin to Mayberry. And it's getting harder and harder to find.

Murder and violence rates today are at mid or early 60's levels. There was no FB or internet back then and powers to be kept it quiet.Anything to do with sex (assualt, rape etc)  was never published and kept behind closed doors

I grew up in a small midwestern town. The male grade school teacher at my Catholic school raped and strangled 2 teenage girls at the local park and the came into the school and arrested him-early 70's

No one even heard of this 40 miles away. Today it would be all over the world, most likely on the Daily Mail etc.

I remember my brother askingmy mom about the next door lady why after her husband leaves for work another guy shows up.

This was all 1960's and early 70's

@roamer_1

[roamer_1]

Yeah the Mayberry 1965 where blacks had to ride on the back of the bus, use separate restrooms, sit  in the back of the movie theatre.

Oh baloney.

Women had little job opportunities and rarely could escape the daily grind in most cases and very little help to escape a abused spouse.

More baloney - My great aunt, never married, left a 50 flat apartment building to our greater family which has paid for college for everyone who came after me.

Religious dogma was so strict a woman thought she would go to hell if she left her worthless husband

More baloney. No fault divorce is precisely what wrecked the place. The result? poor single-parent women, poor bastard children, poor men destroyed by alimony and child support, and a burgeoning federal government, taxing the crap out of everybody to pay for ever more poor women, bastard children, and destroyed men. 

Sexual molestation was covered up and hid away. No help for the abused.

Like there's less of a sex abuse problem today?

No vested pensions laws yet so companies would fire a worker or workers  a week before retirement so they did not have to pay out the pension

Right. Now the companies go broke because no one can sustain a pension system where two are retired for every one working. And the pension fund goes to the lawyers.
 

No air conditioning.

I have never had air conditioning. I take that back - I have a minivan that has it, but the belt to the compressor has been busted for years.

Very little education opportunities beyond HS unless your family came from means.Smart people stuck in dead end manual labor jobs.

My entire family is only high-school educated, until my Great Aunt died, and established a college fund... My sisters and my brother went to college, as did two of my aunts. One of my sons, and probably both of my daughters too... That's it.

Every one of them from my great-grandfather on down are entrepreneurs, to include me. All of them, every one, is successful at their business, to include me (until illness took it all). All of them made their own retirement, only three in my entire family (somewhere near 50 houses in the Greater House) have become divorced (again, to include me).

Smart people don't get stuck. Smart people DO. 

1965 Mayberry was not as great as you make it remember.

yes, in fact, it was.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Sheesh brother...... give it up.

Will never give up correcting those who wish to change history.

That is for those silent ones who look the other way.

[Jazzhead]

We are ALL freaks who are deserving, if not going to hell. Why are they any different?

Because the rest of us are going to hell, or not, based on the faithfulness of our actions.   The attitude of some here is that the homosexual is going to hell merely because of who he or she is.  He/she's an abomination.    Living an honorable, faithful, obedient and honest life apparently makes no difference.   The homosexual has the Dark Mark, unless, I suppose,  he/she lives - uniquely -  a life of self-denial.   Why does God impose such cruelty on the homosexual?     

[EC]

Wow. 
That article is insane.

It is, isn't it. 

Not exactly my definition of ethical, which is no coercion (either physical or chemical) of the performers - same goes for prostitutes. If that's covered, I no longer care - not my sin, nor my problem.

[roamer_1]

Murder and violence rates today are at mid or early 60's levels. There was no FB or internet back then and powers to be kept it quiet.Anything to do with sex (assualt, rape etc)  was never published and kept behind closed doors

Nonsense. I suggest you look at how many go missing every year nowadays.

You think they covered it up then...