Author Topic: Trump tells GOP to take it or leave it on ObamaCare repeal [vote Friday]  (Read 18923 times)

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Compromise is a dirty word to the modern GOP. Not just it's politicians, but to the extremely vocal adherents who call themselves "conservatives". And yet, nothing but nothing will happen without some sort of compromise.

Right.  But talking like that will get you labelled a RINO....

I'd love to see a full repeal.  But without the votes, sticking to that position will mean no bill at all.  So Obamacare will stagger along, including subsidies, Medicare expansion, etc...  And maybe the Dems ride that to midterm wins in 2018, and our only chance to actually get rid of it is gone.

There is a slim GOP majority in Congress.  Some people mistakenly believe that means a conservative majority, and so can't figure out why they can't get a full repeal passed.  The votes just aren't there.

Online Free Vulcan

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You've go the Freedom Caucus insisting on 1) elimination of the 26 year old addendum, 2) elimination of guaranteed issue, and 3) phase-out of the federally subsidized Medicaid expansion.  You've got the RINO's insisting on 1) keeping the 26 year old addendum, 2) keeping guaranteed issue, and 3) maintaining the federal Medicaid expansion subsidy.

How do you rewrite the bill to satisfy those two irreconcilable views?

1) The 26 y/o addendum is ridiculous. 21 y/o unless you are in college. After that you must be a verified dependent for tax purposes. If you refuse to get insurance, you get kicked to Medicaid and pay a high tax out of your paycheck till you get insurance, whatever makes the program whole. And in reality that should be for emergency room treatment only in life threatening accidents and such.

2) Guaranteed issue is also ridiculous. You can give incentives to get insurance co's to take pre-existings, or do carve outs, but there is some point where they got to get kicked to Medicaid, which goes back to 1). Those that are now would have to grandfathered. Guaranteed issue of insurance is practically a contradiction in terms.

3) Medicare and Medicaid both need to be reformed to the point where those that can't or won't get insurance will have to be catch all of last resort and be viable. It will be expensive but it can be reduced to the worst cases only to lower cost.

The moderates need to give up on 1) and 2) and the conservatives on 3). That's the only way it's going to work right, among other things.
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Online DB

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Anyone care to explain how this is a federal government issue as enumerated in the constitution instead of a state government issue?

Once you start accepting a federal government role, you've thrown the constitution out the window. We either get back to the basics or we don't get back at all.

Offline roamer_1

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Up or down,  keep ObamaCare or fix it.   


[X] NONE OF THE ABOVE

Thank God for Conservatives in the House.

Offline Jazzhead

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This morning's WSJ lead editorial squarely takes on the Freedom Caucus as a rump faction that may kill the best chance we have at health care reform based on conservative principles.

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  Dying on this Hamburger Hill means giving up the first modernization of Medicaid since the program was created in 1965, as well as reforms to achieve a fairer, more accountable and more market-based system that conservatives have pursued for decades.  Failure of the health bill will also jeopardize tax reform by adding $1 trillion to the budget baseline and creating a public perception that Republicans can't govern.

If the Freedom Caucus thinks a more conservative bill will emerge if this one fails, they have more illusions than Hillary Clinton's campaign.  If Mr. Trump concludes he can't win with the Republican majority, he may well try to negotiate with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and the cost of their votes will make the Ryan bill look like free-market heaven.

By insisting on the impossible over the achievable, these self-styled guardians of conservative purity could become the worst friends conservative ideas and free markets have had in decades. 
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Offline Jazzhead

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Count me with the President.   If the Freedom Caucus is going to torpedo this bill,  then let the vote be open and swift.   Trump is happy to sign a health care reform bill that unites the GOP caucus, but he's just as willing to let it go if conservatives are going to dick around.

Conservatives have an existential decision to make today,  and I hope that Trump's ultimatum will focus their minds.    Trump will not get the blame if this bill fails, and the jobs-killing and budget-busting ObamaCare remains in place.   Conservatives will.   
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 12:08:00 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Jazzhead

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[X] NONE OF THE ABOVE

Thank God for Conservatives in the House.

There is no "none of the above".   Either this bill passes or ObamaCare remains in place.   Is that what you want?  Then keep cheering on the Freedom Caucus.   
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Count me with the President.   If the Freedom Caucus is going to torpedo this bill,  then let the vote be open and swift.   Trump is happy to sign a health care reform bill that unites the GOP caucus, but he's just as willing to let it go if conservatives are going to dick around.

Conservatives have an existential decision to make today,  and I hope that Trump's ultimatum will focus their minds.    Trump will not get the blame if this bill fails, and the jobs-killing and budget-busting ObamaCare remains in place.   Conservatives will.   
Conservatives did not make this mess. Of course the blame will be shifted to Conservatives by those who aren't, but I thought I'd make that point.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Hoodat

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There is no "none of the above".   Either this bill passes or ObamaCare remains in place.   Is that what you want?  Then keep cheering on the Freedom Caucus.

I'll take Logical Fallacies for $200, Alex.



See:  False Dilemma
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Offline Jazzhead

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Conservatives did not make this mess. Of course the blame will be shifted to Conservatives by those who aren't, but I thought I'd make that point.

The current crisis is at the hands of the Freedom Caucus.   The Wall Street Journal,  one of the most respected conservative organs in the nation, let the Freedom Caucus have it with both barrels this morning as "the worst friends conservative ideas and free markets have had in decades."   

Conservatives have an existential decision to make today.     
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Offline Smokin Joe

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The current crisis is at the hands of the Freedom Caucus.   The Wall Street Journal,  one of the most respected conservative organs in the nation, let the Freedom Caucus have it with both barrels this morning as "the worst friends conservative ideas and free markets have had in decades."   

Conservatives have an existential decision to make today.     
The current crisis would not exist were it not for the machinations of the Democrats and RINOs in the Congress. After years of excuses, those who ran for office on a platform plank of repealing Obamacare have been exposed as the liars they are. Don't paint Conservatives with the fecal matter generated by the Progressives of both parties in the Congress. They own it: The Democrats for making this mess in the first place, and the lying Republicans who claimed they'd repeal it for their perfidy in keeping it going.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cripplecreek

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The current crisis would not exist were it not for the machinations of the Democrats and RINOs in the Congress. After years of excuses, those who ran for office on a platform plank of repealing Obamacare have been exposed as the liars they are. Don't paint Conservatives with the fecal matter generated by the Progressives of both parties in the Congress. They own it: The Democrats for making this mess in the first place, and the lying Republicans who claimed they'd repeal it for their perfidy in keeping it going.

And Trump is out there screeching that it must be kept going.

I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with his son in law's family members making money hand over fist off of Obamacare.

Offline Jazzhead

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The current crisis would not exist were it not for the machinations of the Democrats and RINOs in the Congress. After years of excuses, those who ran for office on a platform plank of repealing Obamacare have been exposed as the liars they are. Don't paint Conservatives with the fecal matter generated by the Progressives of both parties in the Congress. They own it: The Democrats for making this mess in the first place, and the lying Republicans who claimed they'd repeal it for their perfidy in keeping it going.

After today,  if the ACHA doesn't pass the House because of opposition from the Freedom Caucus, conservatives will own it.

That's Trump's strategy - to force these fools to make an existential decision.   I support the President.   
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Online Hoodat

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The current crisis is at the hands of the Freedom Caucus. 

The current crisis is at the hands of Republicans lying about wanting to overthrow the tenets of government-dictated health insurance.


The Wall Street Journal,  one of the most respected conservative organs in the nation

There is nothing Conservative about the Wall Street Journal.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Jazzhead

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And Trump is out there screeching that it must be kept going.


No, he wants the GOP to pass its leadership's bill.  He wants them to spit or get off the pot.   There are other priorities that must be attended to if conservatives in the House insist on making the perfect the enemy of the good.   
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Offline Cripplecreek

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No, he wants the GOP to pass its leadership's bill.  He wants them to spit or get off the pot.   There are other priorities that must be attended to if conservatives in the House insist on making the perfect the enemy of the good.   

You might be a royal subject but I am not.

My congressman answers to his constituents and not to your GOP leadership or your king.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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The current crisis is at the hands of Republicans lying about wanting to overthrow the tenets of government-dictated health insurance.

Well, great.  You've identified your villain.  That doesn't change the reality that ObamaCare will remain in place when this bill gets voted down.  In fact, identifying the "villain" doesn't change anything.

There is a 0% chance this bill would get approved verbatim by the Senate anyway, which means that even if the House passes it, it will have to go to a conference committee.  Personally, I think the smart play for both the Freedom Caucus and moderates is to vote for this bill, send it to the Senate, and then hash it out in conference committee when everyone sees exactly what the chances of passage are in both chambers.  If they don't like the final bill, oppose it then.

Voting against this bill now means the ball will never even get started rolling.  But if the Freedom Caucus and moderates prefer to keep ObamaCare in place as is, then I suppose they're going to get what they want.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 01:14:49 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline roamer_1

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There is no "none of the above".   Either this bill passes or ObamaCare remains in place.   Is that what you want?  Then keep cheering on the Freedom Caucus.

YUP. Better than seeing Conservatism go down the drain. Live to fight another day.

Offline Cripplecreek

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YUP. Better than seeing Conservatism go down the drain. Live to fight another day.

There's a fairy tale I've been hearing my whole life.

Offline roamer_1

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The Wall Street Journal,  one of the most respected conservative organs in the nation

ROTFLMAO!!! :silly: :silly: :silly:

You said that just like as if you were serious.

Offline roamer_1

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There's a fairy tale I've been hearing my whole life.

If there's anyone putting their Conservative  'money' where their mouth is, it's Freedom Caucus members.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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There is a slim GOP majority in Congress.  Some people mistakenly believe that means a conservative majority, and so can't figure out why they can't get a full repeal passed.  The votes just aren't there.

And yet they repeatedly passed OBamacare repeals when Obama was president. A more cynical man than myself might label them a bunch of bullshitters.

Offline roamer_1

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There is a 0% chance this bill would get approved verbatim by the Senate anyway, which means that even if the House passes it, it will have to go to a conference committee.  Personally, I think the smart play for [...] the Freedom Caucus [...] is to vote for this bill [...]

They would never be elected again.

Quote
Voting against this bill now means the ball will never even get started rolling.  But if the Freedom Caucus and moderates prefer to keep ObamaCare in place as is, then I suppose they're going to get what they want.

All it takes to get the ball rolling is another bill... It ain't no thing.

Offline Smokin Joe

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After today,  if the ACHA doesn't pass the House because of opposition from the Freedom Caucus, conservatives will own it.
If they vote for it they will own that, too.

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That's Trump's strategy - to force these fools to make an existential decision.   I support the President.
and the Democrats, and the RINO liars, and the rest of the coprophillic denizens of the swamp. Trump's strategy has been from day one to get principled Conservatives to shed their principles. I will stand with those who are there to do what they said they would: repeal Obamacare. I would contend that the fools are those who try to justify the false advertising the GOP has been putting out since they became a majority in Congress, and remind them they can lose that. They have no excuse for not doing what they were sent there to do. None.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 01:44:39 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Suppressed

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After years of excuses, those who ran for office on a platform plank of repealing Obamacare have been exposed as the liars they are.

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