BREAKING>>>>Nunes: Intel community surveiled Trump transition officials

[Smokin Joe]

@Cyber Liberty

I have been preaching for years that the entrenched unelected GS bureaucracy in Washington is the biggest threat we face! It is not elected democrats alone!

QFT!

Failure to sufficiently clean house will be the demise of this administration, as the staffers and entrenched bureaucrats (some with the equivalent of legislative authority) continue to quietly call the shots and make the trains run on time.

[Bigun]

Everyboduy knows it's because the Dems are always innocent of wrong doing.  Just ask 'em, they'll tell you!

And their propaganda arm - the MSM  - will back them on it 100%!  As will the unelected and unfireable GS bureaucrats in Washington! 

[bigheadfred]

Again, I think we need to draw the distinction between the incidental collection, and what happened next.  If Nunes is to be believed, the collection itself is legal.  Which among other things means that Trump's people really were in contact with people who were under surveillance.  Though it's highly unlikely that they were not the only ones.

It's what may have happened next that's the real problem: the intel people failed to "mask" at least some of those they should have.  That's bad enough.  But if they selectively failed to mask, then that's a much bigger deal.

But if they selectively failed to mask, then that's a much bigger deal.

Takes it completely out of the incidental realm and puts it into the intentional. And right back to what I said about the Trump people being the target(s) all along.

[Cyber Liberty]

But if they selectively failed to mask, then that's a much bigger deal.

Takes it completely out of the incidental realm and puts it into the intentional. And right back to what I said about the Trump people being the target(s) all along.

It will be a lot more difficult to prove if someone accidentally on purpose unmasked some people.  We're looking at a double-bank side pocket shot here.

[r9etb]

But if they selectively failed to mask, then that's a much bigger deal.

Takes it completely out of the incidental realm and puts it into the intentional. And right back to what I said about the Trump people being the target(s) all along.

Again, that goes against what Nunes said about the incidental collection itself, which he said appeared to be legal.  Which means that Trump's people really were in contact with people under surveillance.

I think the more likely scenario is that somebody with a political bent saw certain names of people who should have been masked and said, "well, isn't that interesting?"  And it quickly metastasized into something politically actionable by the Obama team.

And that could end up having interesting repercussions.

[don-o]

So Nunes is repeating that his new info

1. Was collected legally
and
2. Is not related to Russia.

For discussion and speculation:

1. Was this a surveillance on a foreign power other than Russia?
2. Is there a second and wider criminal investigation directly looking at Trumpworld?

The "does not involve Russia" piece is a puzzle. Of course, we may get a leak at any moment.

I lean to #1, maybe Israel, based on another of Obama's parting gifts, that being the stab in the back at the UN.

[Bigun]

Again, that goes against what Nunes said about the incidental collection itself, which he said appeared to be legal.  Which means that Trump's people really were in contact with people under surveillance.

I think the more likely scenario is that somebody with a political bent saw certain names of people who should have been masked and said, "well, isn't that interesting?"  And it quickly metastasized into something politically actionable by the Obama team.

And that could end up having interesting repercussions.

IF there were anyone around interested in acting upon it that is!

[r9etb]

1. Was this a surveillance on a foreign power other than Russia?
2. Is there a second and wider criminal investigation directly looking at Trumpworld?

The "does not involve Russia" piece is a puzzle. Of course, we may get a leak at any moment.

I lean to #1, maybe Israel, based on another of Obama's parting gifts, that being the stab in the back at the UN.

1.  Yes, apparently so, since it was covered under FISA.  I'd speculate (based on a few other things I've read) that Turkey is the other power, and that makes sense for a variety of reasons.

2.  It's possible that there's an investigation looking at Trumpworld, but this doesn't appear to be it.  I think there's some merit to the idea that "failure to mask" was politically motivated, and the information was used for Obamaworld's political ends.

[r9etb]

IF there were anyone around interested in acting upon it that is!

I think it's abundantly clear that Obama's minions were interested in creating political havoc for Trump, and this sort of thing would have fit in nicely.

[Bigun]

I think it's abundantly clear that Obama's minions were interested in creating political havoc for Trump, and this sort of thing would have fit in nicely.

And they SHOULD go to prison for it but I won't be holding my breath waiting for that result!

[r9etb]

And they SHOULD go to prison for it but I won't be holding my breath waiting for that result!

Actually, I think people probably will go to prison for this -- it goes to the very heart of legitimate concerns from across the political spectrum about the potential for misusing FISA.  It's not the sort of violation that one wants to be seen papering over.

Of course, it will probably not be the truly responsible somebodies. 

The response of the Democrats on this has been instructive -- I really begin to think there's something unpleasant they would like us to not know about.

[Sanguine]

Yeah, it's kind of odd random chance always seems to favor the Rats these days. 

Used to be, when votes were recounted in elections, half the time the Dem gained, the other half the Rep gained, but now the Dems gain every time the votes are counted.  They'll recount the same election over and over until the Rat gets enough to win.  How come they're so confident they'll come out ahead?

Something very fishy about that.

Because they're better at the game!  They take it very seriously and play for keeps.  As opposed to us...

[Bigun]

Because they're better at the game!  They take it very seriously and play for keeps.  As opposed to us...

And they had 40 years + to build their empire!

[Sanguine]

And they had 40 years + to build their empire!

Well, we could have been doing the same damn thing at the same time.  We could have, at the very least, been effectively and seriously fighting them all that time.

[r9etb]

Because they're better at the game!  They take it very seriously and play for keeps.  As opposed to us...

I think there's a real distinction -- we respect the rules and play the game to win according to the rules.  The left operates according to "the ends justify the means."  They'll use the rules if it suits them, and otherwise rely on the rules mainly to hold us in place. 

[Cyber Liberty]

There's "better at the game" and "better at cheating the game."

[Sanguine]

I think there's a real distinction -- we respect the rules and play the game to win according to the rules.  The left operates according to "the ends justify the means."  They'll use the rules if it suits them, and otherwise rely on the rules mainly to hold us in place.

I agree with that as far as it goes, but the other part of the equation is that we are just not as dedicated to seeing to it that our vision is brought about as are leftists.  It's both a strength and weakness of conservatives.

[r9etb]

Well, we could have been doing the same damn thing at the same time.  We could have, at the very least, been effectively and seriously fighting them all that time.

Here's another difference between "us" and "them."  At the risk of painting with a too-broad brush, activists on the left tend to live for and through their political issues.  There is no separation for them between politics and real life.  Conservatives tend to be people for whom politics is secondary to going to work, being with family, and all those other normal things.

The reason why the left wins, is because they go to all the meetings, get appointed to the committees, set the meeting agendas, and so on.  Normal people may show up for the meetings, but they almost never control them.

And, finally, because it's their life, activists on the left never rest after a defeat; they just keep plugging away; whereas normal people treat any victory as final and move on to the next issue.  And defeat usually stays that way, for the same reason.

[r9etb]

I agree with that as far as it goes, but the other part of the equation is that we are just not as dedicated to seeing to it that our vision is brought about as are leftists.  It's both a strength and weakness of conservatives.

We agree.

[bigheadfred]

Until I start seeing headlines like "798 intelligence community employees receive lengthy prison terms for multiple law-breaking" I will never begin to trust them or believe them.

[Bigun]

Until I start seeing headlines like "798 intelligence community employees receive lengthy prison terms for multiple law-breaking" I will never begin to trust them or believe them.

  Fred! Right there as well! 

[Smokin Joe]

And they had 40 years + to build their empire!

And the garbage hauler's local to dispose of the evidence...

[Smokin Joe]

Well, we could have been doing the same damn thing at the same time.  We could have, at the very least, been effectively and seriously fighting them all that time.

For decades it has been being branded as the crackpot at the meeting, a voice crying out in a wilderness of people who stand in the sunshine and just won't be bothered with the black sky and lightning coming in over the ridge. Now that the storm is breaking, the herd is close to stampede, when it could have avoided the whole situation. Problem is, that wild-eyed stampede has as much chance of going off a cliff as finding a safe pasture.

[Sanguine]

For decades it has been being branded as the crackpot at the meeting, a voice crying out in a wilderness of people who stand in the sunshine and just won't be bothered with the black sky and lightning coming in over the ridge. Now that the storm is breaking, the herd is close to stampede, when it could have avoided the whole situation. Problem is, that wild-eyed stampede has as much chance of going off a cliff as finding a safe pasture.

Yeah, I know, hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

[Smokin Joe]

Yeah, I know, hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

No one is afraid of hindsight. Foresight, no matter how gently phrased, scares the living scat out of them and they either avoid you or go into denial.