Author Topic: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs  (Read 30899 times)

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Offline FS7

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WMAL has a morning show that is one of the last shows I listen to, and Larry Kudlow is a weekly guest. While I've never been particularly impressed with Kudlow, I did not expect what I heard today.

For those who don't know, Kudlow worked under Reagan and has long claimed to be a supply-side economist. Early on in the primary, he became a Trump loyalist, but he still retained some of his economic credentials as he half-heartedly criticized Trump's anti-conservative policies.

Today he was asked about the CBO analysis and his response tells me there is no hope for a conservative solution.

I am going on memory here, but he mentioned that we "need" to cover all of the people who will lose coverage according to the CBO. He didn't say who "we" was, but he made it seem like a foregone conclusion that it was our responsibility. (Since when is that a conservative idea?)

He then mentioned that 50% of all healthcare costs are incurred by 5% of the population (who he referred to as "the sick"). He then hand-waved and said something like "let's just have the government pay for them" with the pretense that it would result in substantially healthier insurance pool. I suppose that would be theoretically possible if we could know the future, but I'm pretty sure "the sick" change constantly. There is no way to isolate the membership of that 5% as it changes constantly and I would have thought that anybody with a brain would know that. It follows then that the only thing the government could do is pay 50% of all medical bills, which is, to borrow a phrase, one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.

I don't know if this is Trump Stage 0 thinking rubbing off on him or if he's really a socialist now, but with friends like these, who needs enemies?

I just don't see how we can possibly return to economic realism on healthcare (or anything else) if "popular" "conservative" "economists" say things like this.

Offline rodamala

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 02:04:10 pm »
I used to enjoy listening to Larry's Saturday radio program on WABC... but I think he has spent too much time around the nitwits at CNBC.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 02:24:03 pm »
I used to enjoy listening to Larry's Saturday radio program on WABC... but I think he has spent too much time around the nitwits at CNBC.

I listen to him. He is a Conservative until it becomes inconvenient or hurts business getting a free ride. Let's also not forget that Larry is one of the circle jerks who hosted that Obama dinner for establishment righties.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 02:36:20 pm »
I see nothing in the Constitution that supports the claim govt must pay, hence Discarded.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 02:39:47 pm »
I see nothing in the Constitution that supports the claim govt must pay, hence Discarded.

Gotta grab a microscope and read between the lines...that where Liberals see some of the "rights" they say are in the Constitution.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 03:28:04 pm »
Kudlow also folded and said we needed a bailout back in 2008, all the while talking up supply side and free market economics.


Just as once-principled conservatives folded for Trump, free market adherent are folding too.


Can't wait until Limblob starts talking up single payer, and his brainless idiot followers lap it up, like sheep.

Offline LonestarDream

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 03:51:01 pm »
Have been following Kudlow for years.  Instead of ObamaCare or single payer where everyone's healthcare is intertwined, Kudlow is for isolating the poor/sick in a small, defined pool.

This will keep costs identifiable and contained.  Meanwhile, private health savings solutions and competition will lead better treatment outcomes ( eg cancer outcomes in the US versus UK ) for middle class and above households. 



WMAL has a morning show that is one of the last shows I listen to, and Larry Kudlow is a weekly guest. While I've never been particularly impressed with Kudlow, I did not expect what I heard today.

For those who don't know, Kudlow worked under Reagan and has long claimed to be a supply-side economist. Early on in the primary, he became a Trump loyalist, but he still retained some of his economic credentials as he half-heartedly criticized Trump's anti-conservative policies.

Today he was asked about the CBO analysis and his response tells me there is no hope for a conservative solution.

I am going on memory here, but he mentioned that we "need" to cover all of the people who will lose coverage according to the CBO. He didn't say who "we" was, but he made it seem like a foregone conclusion that it was our responsibility. (Since when is that a conservative idea?)

He then mentioned that 50% of all healthcare costs are incurred by 5% of the population (who he referred to as "the sick"). He then hand-waved and said something like "let's just have the government pay for them" with the pretense that it would result in substantially healthier insurance pool. I suppose that would be theoretically possible if we could know the future, but I'm pretty sure "the sick" change constantly. There is no way to isolate the membership of that 5% as it changes constantly and I would have thought that anybody with a brain would know that. It follows then that the only thing the government could do is pay 50% of all medical bills, which is, to borrow a phrase, one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.

I don't know if this is Trump Stage 0 thinking rubbing off on him or if he's really a socialist now, but with friends like these, who needs enemies?

I just don't see how we can possibly return to economic realism on healthcare (or anything else) if "popular" "conservative" "economists" say things like this.
(?) Trump Realist    (*) Trump believer   (?) Never Trump,   Which are you ?

Offline FS7

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 04:34:16 pm »
Have been following Kudlow for years.  Instead of ObamaCare or single payer where everyone's healthcare is intertwined, Kudlow is for isolating the poor/sick in a small, defined pool.

This will keep costs identifiable and contained.  Meanwhile, private health savings solutions and competition will lead better treatment outcomes ( eg cancer outcomes in the US versus UK ) for middle class and above households.

Presumably you're defending this point of view. I'll assume you haven't thought about it.

The reason insurance companies charge premiums is to cover their risk in the eventual case expensive care is required. You pay while you don't need it so that you can receive care when you need it. Now, if you isolate the "sick" in a pool, there is no reason for insurance. Alternatively, this could be looked at as a way to grossly enrich insurance companies by letting them collect money from healthy people but transfer the hard work (paying out claims for the sick) to the taxpayer. Either way, this is an argument for single payer.

It would, in addition, do absolutely nothing to contain costs. The taxpayer becomes responsible for both their own health insurance as well as the government-sponsored "sick pool." Given the inefficiency of the government, it's likely that costs to the end user would increase substantially. At the absolute theoretical best, they would remain the same, but then that would obviate the need for such a program.

Any amount of logical thought shows that this is an argument for single payer somebody with the rationalization ability of a high school sophomore would propose.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 04:38:18 pm by FS7 »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 04:36:26 pm »
Presumably you're defending this point of view. I'll assume you haven't thought about it.

The reason insurance companies charge premiums is to cover their risk in the eventual case expensive care is required. You pay while you don't need it so that you can receive care when you need it. Now, if you isolate the "sick" in a pool, there is no reason for insurance. Alternatively, this could be looked at as a way to grossly enrich insurance companies by letting them collect money from healthy but transfer the hard work (paying out claims for the sick) to the taxpayer. Either way, this is an argument for single payer.

It would, in addition, do absolutely nothing to contain costs. The taxpayer becomes responsible for both their own health insurance as well as the government-sponsored "sick pool." Given the inefficiency of the government, it's likely that costs to the end user would increase substantially. At the absolute theoretical best, they would remain the same, but then that would obviate the need for such a program.

Any amount of logical thought shows that this is an argument for single payer somebody with the rationalization ability of a high school sophomore would propose.

 :amen:

Excellent analysis
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Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 05:32:59 pm »
Presumably you're defending this point of view. I'll assume you haven't thought about it.

The reason insurance companies charge premiums is to cover their risk in the eventual case expensive care is required. You pay while you don't need it so that you can receive care when you need it. Now, if you isolate the "sick" in a pool, there is no reason for insurance. Alternatively, this could be looked at as a way to grossly enrich insurance companies by letting them collect money from healthy people but transfer the hard work (paying out claims for the sick) to the taxpayer. Either way, this is an argument for single payer.

It would, in addition, do absolutely nothing to contain costs. The taxpayer becomes responsible for both their own health insurance as well as the government-sponsored "sick pool." Given the inefficiency of the government, it's likely that costs to the end user would increase substantially. At the absolute theoretical best, they would remain the same, but then that would obviate the need for such a program.

Any amount of logical thought shows that this is an argument for single payer somebody with the rationalization ability of a high school sophomore would propose.

If I were you I wouldn't be scolding others about "sophomoric thinking," until you can pull the old plank out of your own eye first. 

To begin with, you're talking about health insurance as if it were the same sort of beast as car or life insurance, in which premiums and coverage are predicated primarily on risk; and we're expected to pay those premiums ourselves.

But that's not how health insurance works, for most of us, and it hasn't done for a long time.  What we call "health insurance" is probably better described as a form of cost sharing, and the majority of the costs are borne not by individuals, but by employers.  There's certainly a risk component involved in the pricing, but the risk is handled much differently than it is for something like life insurance.

Moreover, for pretty much everybody, "health insurance" ends at age 65, at which point Medicare coverage begins, and the taxpayers already have that burden.  (It's also where most of the health care costs are carried, I suspect.)

You're also skipping over Kudlow's key point: the fact that those 5% account for 50% of health care costs.  That's probably a correct statistic.  At any rate, that 50% number is something that bears serious scrutiny: is it possible to find a way to remove that cost from the cost pool of the relatively healthy?

Just suppose that the insurance companies did not have to deal with that "sick 5%."  They'd be looking at a significant reduction in outlays -- probably not 50% less, but a lot less.  This could (as your interestingly Bernie Sanders-ish argument goes) "grossly enrich insurance companies," but that's where your argument becomes sophomoric. 

You neglect to address the fact that employers negotiate their premiums with those same insurance companies, and have a very strong vested interest in reducing the premiums they have to pay.  It would be very strange indeed if insurance premiums did not go down.

So we're left with the remaining 5% of the people. The question is: what does one do about that 5%?  We cannot expect such people to be able to shoulder that sort of cost.  So do we let them die, or do we help them to find some level of treatment?  If the latter, how is it best done?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 05:38:27 pm by r9etb »

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 05:44:34 pm »
The government can't pay for anything.  They can only take resources away from the people to whom they belong and give it to someone else.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 05:54:15 pm »
The government can't pay for anything.  They can only take resources away from the people to whom they belong and give it to someone else.

And....? 

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2017, 05:56:05 pm »
And....?
..And that my friend is theft.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 05:58:10 pm »
..And that my friend is theft.

And letting folks sicken and die of treatable diseases because they can't pay for themselves is what?

Because that's where this argument pretty much ends up.  There are some people who can't pay their own way.  Do we let them die?

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2017, 06:05:31 pm »
And letting folks sicken and die of treatable diseases because they can't pay for themselves is what?

Because that's where this argument pretty much ends up.  There are some people who can't pay their own way.  Do we let them die?
Life sucks and then you die. You can't legislate Unicorns to come along and change reality.

But since this isn't happening why are you deploying this tired excuse of an argument?
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2017, 06:14:49 pm »
And letting folks sicken and die of treatable diseases because they can't pay for themselves is what?

......

...not the job of the federal government.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2017, 06:14:57 pm »
Life sucks and then you die. You can't legislate Unicorns to come along and change reality.

But since this isn't happening why are you deploying this tired excuse of an argument?

So, to be clear: you'd advocate for letting people die of treatable conditions if they haven't got the money to pay for it themselves?  Just trying to understand your position.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2017, 06:16:04 pm »
...not the job of the federal government.

Forget whose "job" it is for the moment.  What is your position on letting people sicken and die of treatable diseases because they can't pay for it themselves?

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2017, 06:16:42 pm »
Forget whose "job" it is for the moment.  What is your position on letting people sicken and die of treatable diseases because they can't pay for it themselves?

I'm glad you asked.  As a Christian, I believe it is my duty to help them when possible.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2017, 06:18:28 pm »
So, to be clear: you'd advocate for letting people die of treatable conditions if they haven't got the money to pay for it themselves?  Just trying to understand your position.
So the choice is government or nothing? That is a false dichotomy.

Also people aren't dieing because they don't have money and haven't been for years. Emergency rooms aren't turning people away. So I'm just trying why you feel the need to base your argument on a false premise?

If it is the government's job on any level it is not the federal government. That power is not enumerated in the Constitution and is therefore left to the states or the people. There is no law against helping other people.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2017, 06:19:26 pm »
Forget whose "job" it is for the moment.  What is your position on letting people sicken and die of treatable diseases because they can't pay for it themselves?
There are a lot of jobs in this world. When will someone from the Federal Government be out to fix my leaky faucet, or mow my lawn?
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2017, 06:20:22 pm »
So, to be clear: you'd advocate for letting people die of treatable conditions if they haven't got the money to pay for it themselves?  Just trying to understand your position.

Let them start a "Go Fund Me" acount like all the other deadbeats.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2017, 06:22:10 pm »
Forget whose "job" it is for the moment.  What is your position on letting people sicken and die of treatable diseases because they can't pay for it themselves?
If you are so moved to help people. Why don't you get off your rear and do it instead of asking the government to put a gun to my head and make me do it?

Make you a deal find me a charity that helps with this sort of thing and I'll match your donation up to a hundred bucks.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2017, 06:22:48 pm »
I'm glad you asked.  As a Christian, I believe it is my duty to help them when possible.

Right.  And from this I take it that you'd no doubt happily contribute voluntarily to a charity that helped those who were unable to pay for their own health care.  In other words, the question as it pertains to health care is apparently mostly a question of ways and means for you. 

But would I be correct in assuming that there are some things -- roads and bridges, for example -- that you would say are legitimately the "job" of the government?

So here's the question: what's the difference?