Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!

[XenaLee]

If indeed this is a subtle coup taking place (which I have no doubts given the last couple of weeks), the Trump voters are not the ones the Leftists and Obama are targeting for manipulation by their comrades in the media.  The Left is far more successful at manipulating information to serve their narrative among their emoting masses than Trump is among his faithful.  Either Trump is oblivious to what is actually happening under his nose, or he is complicit in handing the parallel government being established with ammunition they are going to use to torpedo his entire Administration.  Trump's supporters are not going to be able to stave off or prevent the sabotaging of their leader who may end up being stupid enough to kill his own legal recourses.

Trump has cried 'wolf' enough with his tweets along with sensationalist bullshiite (Cruz' dad killed JFK) that even if he is right about this issue - a lot folks do not know what to believe and Trump has killed any grace of affording him the benefit of the doubt.

Ehh.....not really.  Everyone (that has been paying attention) knows that primary campaigns get nasty.  That was then, this is now.  And everyone that has a still-working-brain knows that the left will do and say ANYthing to regain the power their own corruption, lies and stupidity lost them.

I expect a LOT of folks .... even previous anti-Trumpers like myself.... will be giving him the benefit of the doubt considering how much better we know the rabid, radical left and what they are capable of.

[kevindavis007]

It is a great mystery to me.

I feel the same way I felt about Trump 20 years ago yet somehow people who agreed with me 2 years ago now believe I'm a traitor who has been manipulated buy a shadowy deep state media conspiracy.

It will be a mystery for all ages when historians write about the Trump administration.

[LonestarDream]

We are the friendly media. Right here. Andy McCarthy and Levin arent exactly chopped liver either.

At the very least he shot what was his best week in office with that speech at the joint session to hell.  He is his own worse enemy.

If there is any truth to the wire tapping and dots have been connected to Obama, then leak it to Friendly news media, and let them break it.

[XenaLee]

Like the goods he had regarding Obama's birth??

That's a whole can of worms that I hope you really don't want to open up here and now.

Back then, when Trump jumped on that wagon, he didn't have the power of the intel agencies at his command.  Things have changed. 

Try to keep up.   

[musiclady]

Read it again.....slowly.   You're dealing in absolutes.  My post said "can" be, not "are".
 

Less emotion, more logic, please.   

Aw, C'mon, @XenaLee .  Every day on every thread when people object to Trump's bizarre and irresponsible behavior, some one, or more than that, accuses them/us of being liberals, "fake Conservatives" and now RINO's.  That one is bizarre, IMO.

It's about time some discernment takes place and people are treated as individuals.

You, for instance, are not a "Trump lover" but defend him on certain things.  You are not into groupthink, and neither are most of the people on this forum.   There are Trump defenders regardless of what he does, or how abjectly stupid he is, there people who don't agree with anything he says or does, but the vast majority of the rest of this forum (including the owner) is somewhere in between.

It's time for the accusation that opposing Trump for being a juvenile is 'liberal," or that somehow we object to "draining the swamp" to stop.

They are stupid accusations with absolutely NO basis in fact.

[SirLinksALot]

And let's not forget the RECORD of the Obama administration regarding these matters...


HERE's SOMETHING TO JOG EVERYONE's MEMORY:

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/14/183810320/justice-department-secretly-obtains-ap-phone-records

Justice Department Secretly Obtains AP Phone Records

The Associated Press is protesting what it calls a massive and unprecedented intrusion into its gathering of news. The target of that wrath is the U.S. Justice Department, which secretly collected phone records for several AP reporters last year. The AP says it's caught in the middle of a Justice Department leak investigation.

The scope of the Justice Department subpoenas is what gives David Schultz, a lawyer for AP, pause.

"It was a very large number of records that were obtained, including phone records from Hartford, New York, Washington, from the U.S. House of Representatives and elsewhere where AP has bureaus. It included home and cellphone numbers from a number of AP reporters," Schulz says.

It's not clear what the U.S. Attorney in Washington, D.C., is investigating. But the AP thinks it might be related to its story from May 2012 that described the CIA stopping a terrorist plot to plant a bomb on an airplane with a sophisticated new kind of device.

How that story came to be is the subject of a criminal leak investigation. But the AP says the Justice Department might now be flouting the First Amendment to try to build a case.

"This sort of activity really amounts to massive government monitoring of the actions of the press, and it really puts a dagger at the heart of AP's news-gathering activities," Schulz says.

The phone records don't include the substance of the calls — they're just a written tally of who called whom and how long the calls lasted.

Justice Department officials didn't want to talk on tape. But a spokesman for Ron Machen, the U.S. attorney in D.C., said he follows laws and Justice Department rules.

What are those rules?

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST....

[SirLinksALot]

OK folks, let's focus on the issue at hand -- EVIDENCE ( present or absent ) that :

1) Obama wiretapped Trump

2) Trump was in cahoots with the Russians.

Let's not allow this thread to devolve into a name calling war.

Whether one is a Trump supporter or not is beside the point.

[LonestarDream]

The FISA warrant was granted in connection with the investigation of suspected activity between the server and two banks, SVB Bank and Alfa Bank.


Thank you Sir LL.  That is pretty specific and easily falsifiable. 

A reminder to those who were paying attention but ignored what happened.....

FBI ‘Granted FISA Warrant’ Covering Trump Camp’s Ties To Russia (Flashback Nov.7,2016)

SOURCE: https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/

EXCERPT:

Two separate sources with links to the counter-intelligence community have confirmed to Heat Street that the FBI sought, and was granted, a FISA court warrant in October, giving counter-intelligence permission to examine the activities of ‘U.S. persons’ in Donald Trump’s campaign with ties to Russia.

Contrary to earlier reporting in the New York Times, which cited FBI sources as saying that the agency did not believe that the private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower which was connected to a Russian bank had any nefarious purpose, the FBI’s counter-intelligence arm, sources say, re-drew an earlier FISA court request around possible financial and banking offenses related to the server. The first request, which, sources say, named Trump, was denied back in June, but the second was drawn more narrowly and was granted in October after evidence was presented of a server, possibly related to the Trump campaign, and its alleged links to two banks; SVB Bank and Russia’s Alfa Bank. While the Times story speaks of metadata, sources suggest that a FISA warrant was granted to look at the full content of emails and other related documents that may concern US persons.

The FBI agents who talked to the New York Times, and rubbished the ground-breaking stories of Slate ( Franklin Foer) and Mother Jones (David Corn) may not have known about the FISA warrant, sources say, because the counter-intelligence and criminal sides of the FBI often work independently of each other employing the principle of ‘compartmentalization’.

The FISA warrant was granted in connection with the investigation of suspected activity between the server and two banks, SVB Bank and Alfa Bank. However, it is thought in the intelligence community that the warrant covers any ‘US person’ connected to this investigation, and thus covers Donald Trump and at least three further men who have either formed part of his campaign or acted as his media surrogates. The warrant was sought, they say, because actionable intelligence on the matter provided by friendly foreign agencies could not properly be examined without a warrant by US intelligence as it involves ‘US Persons’ who come under the remit of the FBI and not the CIA. Should a counter-intelligence investigation lead to criminal prosecutions, sources say, the Justice Department is concerned that the chain of evidence have a basis in a clear  warrant.

In June, when the first FISA warrant was denied, the FBI was reportedly alarmed at Carter Page’s trip to Moscow and meetings with Russian officials, one week before the DNC was hacked. Counter intelligence agencies later reported to both Presidential candidates that Russia had carried out this hack; Donald Trump said publicly in the third debate that ‘our country has no idea’ if Russia did the hacking. The discovery of the Trump Tower private Russian server, however, communicating with Alfa Bank, changed matters, sources report.



------------- CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST --------------------

The only problem with the above report which makes people tend to overlook it is the phrase "Two separate sources with links to the counter-intelligence community "

People are tired of unidentified "sources"

[musiclady]

It is a great mystery to me.

I feel the same way I felt about Trump 20 years ago yet somehow people who agreed with me 2 years ago now believe I'm a traitor who has been manipulated buy a shadowy deep state media conspiracy.

It's bizarre, isn't it?   Trump is the same unsavory, unethical man (or boy) that he was before he was elected, and much before that. Those of us who have been completely consistent, who have not changed what we think of him, nor what we believe to be important, are somehow not conservative any more, or worse because we haven't jumped on his populist bandwagon.

Methinks that it's not likely you and I who have been manipulated.

@Cripplecreek

[NavyCanDo]

We are the friendly media. Right here. Andy McCarthy and Levin arent exactly chopped liver either.

McCarthy and Levin aren't exactly Woodward and Bernstein. I'm sure there are plenty of reporters over on FOX that would have loved to scoop the story if there was smoke.

[musiclady]

For the record, mistrusting Trump's accuracy and wisdom in tweeting this is not in ANY way supporting the vile and dastardly Barack Obama, nor believing that he is not capable of breaking the law to bring down the country.

He's already done it, and ALL of us know he'd do it again.

[LonestarDream]

Hey, I am all for this.  If Obama can do this to Cheryl A. and the AP, then Trump should have at the BBC, CNN, NYT and wash post.

Lets find out who is leaking .

And let's not forget the RECORD of the Obama administration regarding these matters...


HERE's SOMETHING TO JOG EVERYONE's MEMORY:

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/14/183810320/justice-department-secretly-obtains-ap-phone-records

Justice Department Secretly Obtains AP Phone Records

The Associated Press is protesting what it calls a massive and unprecedented intrusion into its gathering of news. The target of that wrath is the U.S. Justice Department, which secretly collected phone records for several AP reporters last year. The AP says it's caught in the middle of a Justice Department leak investigation.

The scope of the Justice Department subpoenas is what gives David Schultz, a lawyer for AP, pause.

"It was a very large number of records that were obtained, including phone records from Hartford, New York, Washington, from the U.S. House of Representatives and elsewhere where AP has bureaus. It included home and cellphone numbers from a number of AP reporters," Schulz says.

It's not clear what the U.S. Attorney in Washington, D.C., is investigating. But the AP thinks it might be related to its story from May 2012 that described the CIA stopping a terrorist plot to plant a bomb on an airplane with a sophisticated new kind of device.

How that story came to be is the subject of a criminal leak investigation. But the AP says the Justice Department might now be flouting the First Amendment to try to build a case.

"This sort of activity really amounts to massive government monitoring of the actions of the press, and it really puts a dagger at the heart of AP's news-gathering activities," Schulz says.

The phone records don't include the substance of the calls — they're just a written tally of who called whom and how long the calls lasted.

Justice Department officials didn't want to talk on tape. But a spokesman for Ron Machen, the U.S. attorney in D.C., said he follows laws and Justice Department rules.

What are those rules?

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST....

[Emjay]

Aw, C'mon, @XenaLee .  Every day on every thread when people object to Trump's bizarre and irresponsible behavior, some one, or more than that, accuses them/us of being liberals, "fake Conservatives" and now RINO's.  That one is bizarre, IMO.

It's about time some discernment takes place and people are treated as individuals.

You, for instance, are not a "Trump lover" but defend him on certain things.  You are not into groupthink, and neither are most of the people on this forum.   There are Trump defenders regardless of what he does, or how abjectly stupid he is, there people who don't agree with anything he says or does, but the vast majority of the rest of this forum (including the owner) is somewhere in between.

It's time for the accusation that opposing Trump for being a juvenile is 'liberal," or that somehow we object to "draining the swamp" to stop.

They are stupid accusations with absolutely NO basis in fact.

I don't regard the people here who automatically bash Trump over every little thing as liberals.

They claim to be conservatives..

But they've lost perspective.  Big picture truth:  Trump has not been a bad president at all.  He's appointed an excellent cabinet and nominated a fine supreme court justice.

He's planning to reduce and retire bad agencies like the EPA that sit around finding itty bitty spiders on a waterspout somewhere and deprive farmers and ranchers of the use of their lands.

He's supporting business and, guess what, business makes the jobs go around.

He is planning to build a wall and we need a wall and he's supporting agents who were hamstrung by the Obama administration so that they can deal properly with illegals who commit crimes.

That and a lot of other good stuff is on the plus side.

On the minus side, he's embarrassing the elegant and sophisticated here with his personal idiosyncracies and they are indulging themselves by acting superior and all that.

I'm not trying to muffle them .... I just want them to think occasionally.

[DCPatriot]

Why do you feel the need to twist the discussion into attacks on other forum members? You know, it's ok, and even expected, that not everyone will agree with you 100% of the time. One of the signs of maturity is being able to listen to opposing viewpoints without responding with attacks on the other person.

During the Bush years, if any member typed something like "idiot boy rump" to describe the GOP President, he/she would be labeled a troll and thrown the hell out of here.


But evidently, it's just fine today......right, @mystery-ak ?   

[DCPatriot]

Of course, that is the real issue.  And yet... the Trump haters are, as usual, attempting to turn this around and use it against Trump.  The real threat isn't Trump and his personality quirks (or disorders, as some claim)....but the fact that the Obama regime abused power in such a manner as to rival the Soviet Russian era of tyranny over political opponents.  That America dodged that bullet called Hillary, which would have meant more of the same of these threats, seems to have whooshed right over the Trump-haters heads.

Amen, sister!   

[XenaLee]

Aw, C'mon, @XenaLee .  Every day on every thread when people object to Trump's bizarre and irresponsible behavior, some one, or more than that, accuses them/us of being liberals, "fake Conservatives" and now RINO's.  That one is bizarre, IMO.

It's about time some discernment takes place and people are treated as individuals.

You, for instance, are not a "Trump lover" but defend him on certain things.  You are not into groupthink, and neither are most of the people on this forum.   There are Trump defenders regardless of what he does, or how abjectly stupid he is, there people who don't agree with anything he says or does, but the vast majority of the rest of this forum (including the owner) is somewhere in between.

It's time for the accusation that opposing Trump for being a juvenile is 'liberal," or that somehow we object to "draining the swamp" to stop.

They are stupid accusations with absolutely NO basis in fact.

Disagreeing with or criticizing Trump is one thing, musiclady.  But the constant, daily, 24/7 bullshit bashing, which is what I was addressing, reeks of a hidden agenda.   You can't deny it.

And again, I merely was thanking Bigun for reminding us that there are folks HERE probably with an agenda and ulterior motives.  Don't make it into something it's not.  Don't misconstrue what I said.  That's not nice.

[mountaineer]

David Λngelo⚡‏ @MrDavidAngelo 36m36 minutes ago

"DOJ here."
"Did you wiretap me?"
"Who is this?"
"The president"
"I'm not allowed to tell you."

Honest question- is that how it works?

[mystery-ak]

During the Bush years, if any member typed something like "idiot boy rump" to describe the GOP President, he/she would be labeled a troll and thrown the hell out of here.


But evidently, it's just fine today......right, @mystery-ak ?   

TBR was founded in 2009....Obama was Prez.

[DCPatriot]

Cripplecreek wrote:
"The spying would require the approval of the FISA court."

Unless the obama administration decided to ignore the court and "wiretap away" as they pleased.

Considering their arrogance elsewhere, does that really seem to be a remote possibility?

I'm wondering if this is the reason that valerie jarrett moved into obama's home?
Damage control? (more than obama could handle on his own?)
Or is she there to direct coming "events"?

Methinks this story is going to get very interesting.

My prediction on this:

Pres. Trump is going to wait until Obama and Jarrett unpack and settle in to the Kalorama compound fortress...then he's going to call in the FBI and DHS and Federal Marshalls to raid the place and confiscate all electronic equipment including Obama's and Jarrett's cell phones, etc..

THAT'S how interesting it's going to get.....

[GtHawk]

I hope he has proof. Saying Arnold Schwarzenegger quit instead of being fired is a serious charge.

Yeah, it sure is you can'rt go around making accusations about democrats like that!

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Evidence both for the Trump Russian connection and the Wiretapping are both based on unnamed sources.


 


Do I have that right?

[Bigun]

I don't regard the people here who automatically bash Trump over every little thing as liberals.

They claim to be conservatives..

But they've lost perspective.  Big picture truth:  Trump has not been a bad president at all.  He's appointed an excellent cabinet and nominated a fine supreme court justice.

He's planning to reduce and retire bad agencies like the EPA that sit around finding itty bitty spiders on a waterspout somewhere and deprive farmers and ranchers of the use of their lands.

He's supporting business and, guess what, business makes the jobs go around.

He is planning to build a wall and we need a wall and he's supporting agents who were hamstrung by the Obama administration so that they can deal properly with illegals who commit crimes.

That and a lot of other good stuff is on the plus side.

On the minus side, he's embarrassing the elegant and sophisticated here with his personal idiosyncracies and they are indulging themselves by acting superior and all that.

I'm not trying to muffle them .... I just want them to think occasionally.

EXCELLENT post!!!  There was not one poster here who was more anti-Trump than i all the way through the general election.  I thought  there were better choices avaliable but all that is behind us now and Donald J. Trump IS IN FACT president.  There are many things arrayed against him to begin with so I'm going to refrain  from bashing him until he does something truly worthy of it.  IMHO that has not occured to date.

[XenaLee]

Evidence both for the Trump Russian connection and the Wiretapping are both based on unnamed sources.


 


Do I have that right?

That's probably because....

you're not on a "need to know" basis, WTF.  Devastating...right?   

[DCPatriot]

Problem is Trump has no credibility:


1) He had the greatest EC win


2) Ted Cruz's father murdered JFK


3) 3 million illegal votes (Yes there is problem with Fraud but nowhere on that scale and the idiot WON!)


4) purposefully lied to the media about immigration


This is what happens when you're a lying sack of monkey shit as Trump is.

Goddamnit, @mystery-ak ......what are you going to do about this bullsh*t?

Shameful!  Disgusting.....on ANY political forum.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

That's probably because....

you're not on a "need to know" basis, WTF.  Devastating...right?   

Are you?