Survey: Historians rank Obama 12th best president

[Bigun]

The Civil War was not primarily about slavery. It was about the right of States vs. the Federal.

Thank you!  If Lincoln had told the Union Army that they were fighting to end slavery they would have all gone home instantly!

[geronl]

What is their definition of "best"?

I guess since he effectively seized a further 1/12th of the national GDP through unprecedented individual mandates he was pretty effective, but I see that as a negative.

[EC]

I was expecting to see the joke - thank you to those who didn't disappoint. 

As far as the actual list goes - any list which places Jimmy Carter so high is the result of too much beer and bullshit.

[uglybiker]

12th best at what?

[bigheadfred]

12th best at what?

Obviously.

[Smokin Joe]

LBJ 10th? That must really be pushing it.

How Jimmy Carter came in ahead of anyone but Barrack Obama is beyond me, but at number 26? It's definitely composed by a bunch of people with a different worldview from mine.

[Smokin Joe]

So, you would prefer a president who allowed Slavery?

Lincoln was the best president, it's not his fault if some people defended a modern day evil.

Considering George Washington, for all practical purposes declined to become a Monarch and returned to Mount Vernon after his Presidency, I would definitely place him above Lincoln. That this list has Obama before James Madison, either Adams, and others shows its bias.

[RedHead]

The Civil War was not primarily about slavery. It was about the right of States vs. the Federal.

States right to do what?

[Bigun]

States right to do what?

Whatever the hell they wanted unless it was specifically prohibited by the Constitution!

And the 9th and 10th amendments affirm their right to do just that!

[RedHead]

Whatever the hell they wanted unless it was specifically prohibited by the Constitution!

And the 9th and 10th amendments affirm their right to do just that!

And other than a threat to the expansion of slavery what right did they see as threatened?

[jmyrlefuller]

And other than a threat to the expansion of slavery what right did they see as threatened?

The right to have their votes counted, for one. A guy who didn't even qualify for the ballot in most of what became the Confederacy was foisted upon them by the rest of the country. THAT was the last straw. The fight over slavery had been going on for at least a decade, if not more. Yet it was only after the 1860 election that the South had enough and walked out.

[Smokin Joe]

The right to have their votes counted, for one. A guy who didn't even qualify for the ballot in most of what became the Confederacy was foisted upon them by the rest of the country. THAT was the last straw. The fight over slavery had been going on for at least a decade, if not more. Yet it was only after the 1860 election that the South had enough and walked out.

Yep'


Nominees    Electoral Vote    Popular Vote
     Presidential    Vice Presidential
    Republican    winner    Abraham Lincoln    Hannibal Hamlin    180    59.4%    1,865,908    39.9%
    Southern Democratic         John Breckenridge    Joseph Lane    72    23.8%    848,019    18.1%
    Constitutional Union         John Bell    Edward Everett    39    12.9%    590,901     12.6%
    Democratic         Stephen Douglas    Herschel Johnson    12    4.0%    1,380,202    29.5%
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showelection.php?year=1860

[Bigun]

The Civil War was not primarily about slavery. It was about the right of States vs. the Federal.

You are absolutely right!

"The war between the North and the South is a tariff war. The war is further, not for any principle, does not touch the question of slavery, and in fact turns on the Northern lust for sovereignty."

Karl Marx, 1861

[Idaho_Cowboy]

You are absolutely right!

"The war between the North and the South is a tariff war. The war is further, not for any principle, does not touch the question of slavery, and in fact turns on the Northern lust for sovereignty."

Karl Marx, 1861

My most favoritest and trusted historian...

[Smokin Joe]

You are absolutely right!

"The war between the North and the South is a tariff war. The war is further, not for any principle, does not touch the question of slavery, and in fact turns on the Northern lust for sovereignty."

Karl Marx, 1861

Economics are at the bottom of every war, somewhere.

The South was becoming more independent (Google Tredegar Iron Works), and less reliant on the North. The days of being exploited for raw materials vs finished goods were conceivably coming to an end, and with industrialization, the South would have been selling cloth, not bales of cotton. There would go huge profits for middlemen and manufacturers up north.  With secession, the North would have had to compete on the same market as any other country for the goods.

[Bigun]

Economics are at the bottom of every war, somewhere.

The South was becoming more independent (Google Tredegar Iron Works), and less reliant on the North. The days of being exploited for raw materials vs finished goods were conceivably coming to an end, and with industrialization, the South would have been selling cloth, not bales of cotton. There would go huge profits for middlemen and manufacturers up north.  With secession, the North would have had to compete on the same market as any other country for the goods.

There ya go!  In a nutshell.

[Bigun]

My most favoritest and trusted historian...

He was alive at the time and had MANY of his followers on Lincoln's team!  Some of which he never stopped corresponding with until his death.

[EC]

He was alive at the time and had MANY of his followers on Lincoln's team!  Some of which he never stopped corresponding with until his death.

He was also very well read.

He was just wrong about society. Wrong about people, too. 

[Suppressed]

So, you would prefer a president who allowed Slavery?

Lincoln did, indeed, invade a separate sovereign nation in part to fight slavery.  You imply that not doing so would be "allowing" slavery.

So, if Trump doesn't invade sovereign nations that currently have slavery, you'd say "Trump allowed slavery"?

Or are you going to be a hypocrite?   

[musiclady]

Why did a thread about a stupid 'historians' survey turn into fighting the Civil War again?

Current 'historians' are all biased and ignorant leftists. 

Why does their opinion matter?  Obama was a horrific President.

[Bigun]

He was also very well read.

He was just wrong about society. Wrong about people, too. 

Indeed! The problem was that he read all the wrong stuff in his youth and became a devotee of Jean-Jacques Rousseau who was BTW, quite insane.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Why did a thread about a stupid 'historians' survey turn into fighting the Civil War again?

Lincoln. He was one of the best or worst depending on where you're from or how you view history.

[EC]

Why did a thread about a stupid 'historians' survey turn into fighting the Civil War again?

Current 'historians' are all biased and ignorant leftists. 

Why does their opinion matter?  Obama was a horrific President.

It's Rule 3 of the Fora Guide: Every thread shall turn into an argument about the Civil War, the correct way to hang toilet paper, or a recipe thread.

[Smokin Joe]

It's Rule 3 of the Fora Guide: Every thread shall turn into an argument about the Civil War, the correct way to hang toilet paper, or a recipe thread.

Overshot, and you can't use too much garlic...

Just getting in the other two.

[Bigun]

Why did a thread about a stupid 'historians' survey turn into fighting the Civil War again?

Current 'historians' are all biased and ignorant leftists. 

Why does their opinion matter?  Obama was a horrific President.

Truth @musiclady.  This thread is about TRUTH!  As are all threads in so far as I'm concerned!

It is a LOT of work correcting 150 years worth of government propaganda!