Author Topic: Chuck Todd: Donald Trump’s Delegitimization of Press ‘Un-American,’ ‘Not a Laughing Matter’  (Read 18583 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Exactly.

The older I get, the more I value the Constitution, and the brilliance of the Founding Fathers.  Even ten years ago, I was not as passionate as I am now, and I have learned SO much since I began participating on boards like these more than 15 years ago.  I had the basics, but kind of felt like small government was no longer possible after FDR and following...

I'm thankful that posters like you have the intellect and knowledge to discuss issues in depth, and read your posts (and others) with an open mind and a patriotic heart.

I feel like I learn more every day just by being here, and am more convinced than ever of the value of Conservatism and the importance of keeping its principles as the goal.

@Smokin Joe
@musiclady Thank you for a most gracious reply, and thank you for the way you stick to your principles.
 
In my youth I found the Constitution intriguing, both as a framework for government (even then being ignored) and as a set of limitations on power, at the same time powers and duties were assigned by it. As I grew older I better understood the philosophy and the fundamental understanding of human nature which went into it as well. Without reading the Federalist (and anti-federalist) Papers, the discussion, the issues which confronted the founders, and indeed, original intent cannot be fully fathomed. Without understanding the nature of the world in those times, even that understanding will be lacking.

It is a pity that what passes for "History" in schools is such a polyglot collection of names, dates, fables, and issue driven grievances and distortions, not because there is no element of all of that in history, but because that focus is so easily affected by the whim of current events, and often colored by those issues of today, be they real or imagined.
 
Without the ability to focus honestly on the motivations of a group of intelligent and often learned men who took the time to settle as many issues as they could, for the good of a nation and for the progeny thereof, these United States of America would never have survived. When our future degenerates into the quibbling of greedy and self indulgent masses preoccupied with their own personal enrichment or distracted from the very concept of a Right by the misapplied projection of their own distorted worldview, then the Republic will be in dire straits and may, indeed, fail.

We are encumbered by our own inability to identify problems by clearly analyzing them mainly because every issue is mentioned in such emotional and reactionary terms. Thus, we must look away from the labels and libels and focus on the issues at hand. Regardless of proponent, the issues, and solutions are what they are, and if clearly identified and honestly evaluated our chances of success will be far greater. Poorly identified issues, and solutions only seen through the red lens of anger, hatred, or fear, will lead to poor outcomes. No amount of wishful thinking will change that.

Individual loyalties are nice, but should not interfere with the ability to look clearly at what is being done, how it is being done, and to, without prejudice or misplaced optimism, predict the effects and results, both long and short term. Without such accuracy and analysis, devoid of the strident labors of a raging mob (often incited by the press), the results of such solutions as are postulated will be less than optimal, and may prove to be counterproductive or even contrary to what was intended.
That original framework, constructed with wisdom and understanding was not perfect, but so many of the concepts, so much of the division of power, and the safeguards which were built in remain relevant that it should become the standard by which modern proposals (and even some of those in the past) are weighed.
Almost every program, law, court ruling, agency, and shift of power which has proven detrimental went against the wisdom and understanding present in Original Intent.

While the Constitution did not solve all the problems of its day, it did demonstrate an insightful understanding of the fundamental motivations and ambitions inherent in human nature, and those less honorable ones were guarded against, so long as the people did not ignore or remove those safeguards for the sake of expediency.
It is a fascinating document on so many levels, and this country was indeed Blessed by the hand of Almighty God to be served by such men at that time.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

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@musiclady Thank you for a most gracious reply, and thank you for the way you stick to your principles.
 
In my youth I found the Constitution intriguing, both as a framework for government (even then being ignored) and as a set of limitations on power, at the same time powers and duties were assigned by it. As I grew older I better understood the philosophy and the fundamental understanding of human nature which went into it as well. Without reading the Federalist (and anti-federalist) Papers, the discussion, the issues which confronted the founders, and indeed, original intent cannot be fully fathomed. Without understanding the nature of the world in those times, even that understanding will be lacking.

It is a pity that what passes for "History" in schools is such a polyglot collection of names, dates, fables, and issue driven grievances and distortions, not because there is no element of all of that in history, but because that focus is so easily affected by the whim of current events, and often colored by those issues of today, be they real or imagined.
 
Without the ability to focus honestly on the motivations of a group of intelligent and often learned men who took the time to settle as many issues as they could, for the good of a nation and for the progeny thereof, these United States of America would never have survived. When our future degenerates into the quibbling of greedy and self indulgent masses preoccupied with their own personal enrichment or distracted from the very concept of a Right by the misapplied projection of their own distorted worldview, then the Republic will be in dire straits and may, indeed, fail.

We are encumbered by our own inability to identify problems by clearly analyzing them mainly because every issue is mentioned in such emotional and reactionary terms. Thus, we must look away from the labels and libels and focus on the issues at hand. Regardless of proponent, the issues, and solutions are what they are, and if clearly identified and honestly evaluated our chances of success will be far greater. Poorly identified issues, and solutions only seen through the red lens of anger, hatred, or fear, will lead to poor outcomes. No amount of wishful thinking will change that.

Individual loyalties are nice, but should not interfere with the ability to look clearly at what is being done, how it is being done, and to, without prejudice or misplaced optimism, predict the effects and results, both long and short term. Without such accuracy and analysis, devoid of the strident labors of a raging mob (often incited by the press), the results of such solutions as are postulated will be less than optimal, and may prove to be counterproductive or even contrary to what was intended.
That original framework, constructed with wisdom and understanding was not perfect, but so many of the concepts, so much of the division of power, and the safeguards which were built in remain relevant that it should become the standard by which modern proposals (and even some of those in the past) are weighed.
Almost every program, law, court ruling, agency, and shift of power which has proven detrimental went against the wisdom and understanding present in Original Intent.

While the Constitution did not solve all the problems of its day, it did demonstrate an insightful understanding of the fundamental motivations and ambitions inherent in human nature, and those less honorable ones were guarded against, so long as the people did not ignore or remove those safeguards for the sake of expediency.
It is a fascinating document on so many levels, and this country was indeed Blessed by the hand of Almighty God to be served by such men at that time.

@Smokin Joe  @musiclady

I think the three of us at least are all pretty much on the same page here. Am I wrong?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe  @musiclady

I think the three of us at least are all pretty much on the same page here. Am I wrong?
I think so  :beer:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline musiclady

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@musiclady Thank you for a most gracious reply, and thank you for the way you stick to your principles.
 
In my youth I found the Constitution intriguing, both as a framework for government (even then being ignored) and as a set of limitations on power, at the same time powers and duties were assigned by it. As I grew older I better understood the philosophy and the fundamental understanding of human nature which went into it as well. Without reading the Federalist (and anti-federalist) Papers, the discussion, the issues which confronted the founders, and indeed, original intent cannot be fully fathomed. Without understanding the nature of the world in those times, even that understanding will be lacking.

It is a pity that what passes for "History" in schools is such a polyglot collection of names, dates, fables, and issue driven grievances and distortions, not because there is no element of all of that in history, but because that focus is so easily affected by the whim of current events, and often colored by those issues of today, be they real or imagined.
 
Without the ability to focus honestly on the motivations of a group of intelligent and often learned men who took the time to settle as many issues as they could, for the good of a nation and for the progeny thereof, these United States of America would never have survived. When our future degenerates into the quibbling of greedy and self indulgent masses preoccupied with their own personal enrichment or distracted from the very concept of a Right by the misapplied projection of their own distorted worldview, then the Republic will be in dire straits and may, indeed, fail.

We are encumbered by our own inability to identify problems by clearly analyzing them mainly because every issue is mentioned in such emotional and reactionary terms. Thus, we must look away from the labels and libels and focus on the issues at hand. Regardless of proponent, the issues, and solutions are what they are, and if clearly identified and honestly evaluated our chances of success will be far greater. Poorly identified issues, and solutions only seen through the red lens of anger, hatred, or fear, will lead to poor outcomes. No amount of wishful thinking will change that.

Individual loyalties are nice, but should not interfere with the ability to look clearly at what is being done, how it is being done, and to, without prejudice or misplaced optimism, predict the effects and results, both long and short term. Without such accuracy and analysis, devoid of the strident labors of a raging mob (often incited by the press), the results of such solutions as are postulated will be less than optimal, and may prove to be counterproductive or even contrary to what was intended.
That original framework, constructed with wisdom and understanding was not perfect, but so many of the concepts, so much of the division of power, and the safeguards which were built in remain relevant that it should become the standard by which modern proposals (and even some of those in the past) are weighed.
Almost every program, law, court ruling, agency, and shift of power which has proven detrimental went against the wisdom and understanding present in Original Intent.

While the Constitution did not solve all the problems of its day, it did demonstrate an insightful understanding of the fundamental motivations and ambitions inherent in human nature, and those less honorable ones were guarded against, so long as the people did not ignore or remove those safeguards for the sake of expediency.
It is a fascinating document on so many levels, and this country was indeed Blessed by the hand of Almighty God to be served by such men at that time.

This is a cogent post that's going to require more time than I have right now to absorb the wisdom of what you've said (after church.  ^-^).

But even in reading it quickly I can say I agree totally with what you've said here.

And this is exactly the kind of post that I was referring to when I said that I had learned much by participating on forums such as this one!

Thank you! @Smokin Joe
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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@Smokin Joe  @musiclady

I think the three of us at least are all pretty much on the same page here. Am I wrong?

Nope!  You're not wrong!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Bigun

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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien