President-elect Trump on his desire to cancel Boeing’s Air Force One order: “We want Boeing to make a lot of money, but not that much money”

[jpsb]

@jpsb

But it's not an OTS aircraft simply modified with upscale furnishings inside.

Your strawmen notwithstanding.

The upgrades cost 3 billion? Trump right Boeing is ripping US Tax payers off.

[jpsb]

How much does it cost to keep the president of the United States safe when he travels? When the government purchased Air Force One in the early 1990s the cost was an estimated $330 million, which is around $571 million by today’s standards after inflation. Here’s the catch though: Air Force One is actually two planes.  That’s right, the cost of both of the jets was $660 million of taxpayer money.

https://financesonline.com/8-most-expensive-planes-in-the-world-how-much-does-it-cost-to-fly-like-the-elite/

And now Boeing wants 4 billion? Cancel the buy!

[Cripplecreek]

@jpsb

But it's not an OTS aircraft simply modified with upscale furnishings inside.

Your strawmen notwithstanding.

Trump panders to reactionaries who don't ask questions.

I'm not in the industry but even I understand that AF1 is not just any plane. Its not a standard airframe pulled out of production and retrofitted with extra parts. From what I've read they take a standard blueprint and rework it from the ground up with stronger materials etc.

We're also talking about 2 identical planes.

[r9etb]

Lockheed C-5 Galaxy

Yeah, you guys keep saying that.  However, they don't actually manufacture them anymore....

[txradioguy]

How much does it cost to keep the president of the United States safe when he travels? When the government purchased Air Force One in the early 1990s the cost was an estimated $330 million, which is around $571 million by today’s standards after inflation. Here’s the catch though: Air Force One is actually two planes.  That’s right, the cost of both of the jets was $660 million of taxpayer money.

https://financesonline.com/8-most-expensive-planes-in-the-world-how-much-does-it-cost-to-fly-like-the-elite/

And now Boeing wants 4 billion? Cancel the buy!

You really don't understand what goes into building and supporting a plane like this do you?

Wait don't answer...your knee jerk comments tell me all I need to know.

[r9etb]

How much does it cost to keep the president of the United States safe when he travels? When the government purchased Air Force One in the early 1990s the cost was an estimated $330 million, which is around $571 million by today’s standards after inflation. Here’s the catch though: Air Force One is actually two planes.  That’s right, the cost of both of the jets was $660 million of taxpayer money.

https://financesonline.com/8-most-expensive-planes-in-the-world-how-much-does-it-cost-to-fly-like-the-elite/

And now Boeing wants 4 billion? Cancel the buy!

You really are misinformed.  Either that, or you're so in the tank for your idiot savior that you'll make any argument, however silly, to protect him.

[txradioguy]

Lockheed C-5 Galaxy

It's not designed to be a flying WH and it would cost a ton to make it so...more than it's worth.

And who are you going to pull the two birds required for the task from?  The Active, Reserve or ANG fleets?  Less than 150 were produced...to innclude the test bed aircraft.

[txradioguy]

You really are misinformed.  Either that, or you're so in the tank for your idiot savior that you'll make any argument, however silly, to protect him.

I'd go with the latter.

[Night Hides Not]

Trump panders to reactionaries who don't ask questions.

I'm not in the industry but even I understand that AF1 is not just any plane. Its not a standard airframe pulled out of production and retrofitted with extra parts. From what I've read they take a standard blueprint and rework it from the ground up with stronger materials etc.

We're also talking about 2 identical planes.

And maintenance, repair parts, technology support for multiple years. Trump reacted to a small piece of the story.

[Night Hides Not]

I'd go with the latter.

I'm going with both.

[thackney]

Yeah, you guys keep saying that.  However, they don't actually manufacture them anymore....

Thanks for the correction.

[Cripplecreek]

And maintenance, repair parts, technology support for multiple years. Trump reacted to a small piece of the story.

He'll lose interest in this and move on in a few days.

Remember when he said he would "renegotiate" the Keystone deal?

He's forgotten about it.

[jpsb]

You really don't understand what goes into building and supporting a plane like this do you?

Wait don't answer...your knee jerk comments tell me all I need to know.

600 million in 1990, 4 billion in 2020? We are getting screwed!

[jpsb]

I'm going with both.

I'll go with keeping the current AF1 flying and save the 4 billion we don't have. I'll bet there is still a lot of life left in those 2 747s. Plus Trump can use his own 757 in a pinch.

[r9etb]

600 million in 1990, 4 billion in 2020? We are getting screwed!

Different planes, different requirements, different technology.  And the cost would not just be for the planes, but also for the long-term maintenance and specialized equipment for that.

[Night Hides Not]

600 million in 1990, 4 billion in 2020? We are getting screwed!

I'd say, read the contract first.

My experience is federal contract oversight has jaded my view of federal contractors. Still, I'd like to see the parameters of the contract before definitively saying the taxpayer is getting screwed.

[jpsb]

Different planes, different requirements, different technology.  And the cost would not just be for the planes, but also for the long-term maintenance and specialized equipment for that.

We can not afford the 4 billion, keep the current planes flying. Hell DC3s are still flying, B52s are still flying I think we can keep those 747s in the air a while longer.

[r9etb]

We can not afford the 4 billion, keep the current planes flying. Hell DC3s are still flying, B52s are still flying I think we can keep those 747s in the air a while longer.

You're not interested in a discussion of facts.  You just want to protect your boy from the consequences of yet another stupid tweet.  Have a nice day.

[jpsb]

I'd say, read the contract first.

My experience is federal contract oversight has jaded my view of federal contractors. Still, I'd like to see the parameters of the contract before definitively saying the taxpayer is getting screwed.

Air Force One program cost in 1990 600 million, Air Force One program cost in 2020 4 billion
747-200 cost 220 million                                  747-800 cost 350 million

So it cost 200 million to up grade in 1990          now it costs over 3 billion to upgrade? We are
                                                                                 getting screw by Boeing.


Boeing does not have many orders for it's 747-8 so it's looking to Uncle Sam for help. Fine give us tax payers a good deal and then maybe we'll buy new AF1 planes but screwing us over is not going to fly with President Trump.

[txradioguy]

And maintenance, repair parts, technology support for multiple years. Trump reacted to a small piece of the story.

There is a whole entire logistical train that has to be established for the two aircraft to last their lifetime in service.  Plus you have to train the aircrews, loggies and wrench turners the ins-and outs of the new platform.  That costs money.

Some people don't seem to understand that.

[jpsb]

You're not interested in a discussion of facts.  You just want to protect your boy from the consequences of yet another stupid tweet.  Have a nice day.

Removed by Moderator. I as a conservative am not fine with that.


Knock it off with accusing people on TBR of being Liberals. - Mod1

[txradioguy]

Air Force One program cost in 1990 600 million, Air Force One program cost in 2020 4 billion
747-200 cost 220 million                                  747-800 cost 350 million

So it cost 200 million to up grade in 1990          now it costs over 3 billion to upgrade? We are
                                                                                 getting screw by Boeing.


Boeing does not have many orders for it's 747-8 so it's looking to Uncle Sam for help. Fine give us tax payers a good deal and then maybe we'll buy new AF1 planes but screwing us over is not going to fly with President Trump.

You know that the cost is "screwing over the tax payers" how exactly?

Please share with us your knowledge into these things.  Myself and @SZonian have been trying to educate you.  But you're so convinced anything we say that runs counter to your blather is "Trump bashing" you refuse to hear the facts we are trying to educate you with.

[r9etb]

Like most liberals you're fine with throwing money away, I as a conservative am not fine with that.

 

[jpsb]

There is a whole entire logistical train that has to be established for the two aircraft to last their lifetime in service.  Plus you have to train the aircrews, loggies and wrench turners the ins-and outs of the new platform.  That costs money.

Some people don't seem to understand that.

The planes belong to the USAF, they are maintained and operated by the USAF. I think the USAF is up to the job without to much help from Boeing.

[SZonian]

The upgrades cost 3 billion? Trump right Boeing is ripping US Tax payers off.

@jpsb

There are many things we don't know about what is included in that figure and whether or not that figure is actually correct.  It appears the GAO and USAF have different opinions on the costs.

The GAO estimated $2B over 6 years for research, development, testing and evaluation...the USAF came in at around $4B.  Who's right?  It's an estimate.  Boeing is only in the initial RFP phase now...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-seeks-to-ground-costs-of-new-air-force-one-with-boeing/ar-AAlcXJY?li=BBnb7Kz&OCID=ansmsnnews11

What I do know about acquisition is that the DoD is typically responsible for the cost overruns because of additional "requirements" beyond the scope of the original contract.  When the contractor responds and says its going to cost more, the contractor is vilified, not the DoD drones who are actually responsible.  There's a whole bunch of Kabuki Theatre much like the oil executives dragged before Congress to "explain" why gas costs $4 a gallon.

Actually, if they cancel the effort/order, expect the costs to go even higher if they decide to resurrect it. 

In the meantime, the current aircraft continue to age and cost more to operate, maintain and upgrade.

I wonder why so many US Navy ships and aircraft carriers are sitting on the bottom of the oceans as artificial reefs and why the latest aircraft carriers cost around $13B...

http://www.livescience.com/43931-navy-aircraft-carriers.html