Author Topic: Alt-Right Exults in Donald Trump’s Election With a Salute: ‘Heil Victory’  (Read 12136 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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A very long time ago (in 1949, in fact), a wise old man, Frank Chodorov, wrote an essay, "How to Curb the Commies."
(He published it in his one-man broadsheet, analysis, as the Smith Act trials got underway; the essay was
republished posthumously in Fugitive Essays: Selected Writings of Frank Chodorov, in 1980. The book remains
in print from Liberty Fund.)

If you substitute "alt-right" for "Commies," what he said remains quite relevant. I do so here in the particularly relevant
passages without surrendering my belief that the alt-right, who have as much right to express their (nefarious) views
as do those who disagree with them have to reject them, ought not to become the face of the right right:

Quote
If there is anything characteristic of America, and for which Americans can be thankful, it is that it is an area
in which thought has been permitted to run riot. To be sure, our history is not free of political efforts to put limits on
what people may think. Men have been legally punished for holding theological concepts at variance with the ruling
group; for being atheists; for objecting to war; for believing that they have a right to buy and sell in the open
market; for condemning slavery; for advocating birth control; for teaching the theory of evolution; for harbouring art
values that in the eyes of the law constituted obscenity. In every case, the authorities sought to get at ideas by
inflicting punishment on those who held them; in every case, freedom of thought was the issue. It is to the credit
of the American genius for freedom that ultimately the right to think as one wishes prevailed, even though too often
some were made to suffer for it. Somehow the citadel of thought has held firm, and the right to be wrong has added
something to human dignity.

. . . t will be asserted, a primary tenet of [the alt-right] is [the] very denial of free thought; if its advocates come
into power they would do harm to all who entertain ideas contrary to their "line." That is true. On that point, too,
the [alt-right has] been explicit; their insistence on the "absolute truth" of their doctrine puts any divergence from
it in the category of sinful and dangerous error, not to be tolerated . . . The danger, to those who hold freedom as
the highest good, is not the ideas the [alt-right] espouses but the power they aspire to. Let them rant their heads
off---that is their right, which we cannot afford to infringe---but let us keep from them the political means of
depriving everybody else of the same right.
[/b]

Just so. And if only Chodorov's counsel had been known, never mind heeded by (to name one rather nefarious
example) academia, who are too much in need of a reminder about the right to be wrong and the punishment
of the heterodox.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline guitar4jesus

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Why do we keep getting these alt-right articles...don't do the NYT's work for them please.

But pedo pizza stories are OK?  Seems like there's more smoke here...

Offline Cripplecreek

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But pedo pizza stories are OK?  Seems like there's more smoke here...

Yeah there's more than smoke. There's video of them literally Sig Heiling Trump's election with the speaker railing on about how liberals and cucks aren't even human.

Offline Longmire

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Yeah there's more than smoke. There's video of them literally Sig Heiling Trump's election with the speaker railing on about how liberals and cucks aren't even human.

Makes you wonder why Spencer invited the media in to witness that spectacle in the first place, perhaps to discredit other people attending the conference... :pondering:


Offline EC

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Makes you wonder why Spencer invited the media in to witness that spectacle in the first place, perhaps to discredit other people attending the conference... :pondering:

Because it was The Atlantic that recorded it. They are currently filming a documentary about Spencer, due to premiere in December.

Try to keep up.
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Offline Longmire

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Because it was The Atlantic that recorded it. They are currently filming a documentary about Spencer, due to premiere in December.

Try to keep up.

I questioned Spencer's motivation for inviting the media to record him make a spectacle...not whether he knew they were present.

Other than signalling your own arrogance, this comment does nothing to answer that question.  :shrug:


Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I questioned Spencer's motivation for inviting the media to record him make a spectacle...not whether he knew they were present.

Other than signalling your own arrogance, this comment does nothing to answer that question.  :shrug:


I think the people in attendance actually do think Trump will spark a resurgence in White Nationalism. To me it's unimaginable that anyone could be that delusional.

Offline ABX

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The Federalist's take

Quote
Dear Media: Please Stop Normalizing The Alt-Right

Republicans shouldn’t 'normalize' the alt-right, nor should the media imbue it with an outsized importance

Why does the March for Life, a rally that attracts tens of thousands of pro-life Americans to Washington every year, get less prominent media coverage than a fringe neo-Nazi gathering? Because institutional media and white nationalists have formed a politically convenient symbiotic relationship.

For Jew-hating racists, the attention means they can playact as a viable and popular movement with pull in Washington. In return, many in the media get to confirm their own biases, and treat white supremacy as if it was the secret ingredient to Republican success.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/22/dear-media-please-dont-normalize-alt-right/#.WDRSs9S7Ot4.twitter


Offline ABX

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 04:03:59 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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I think the people in attendance actually do think Trump will spark a resurgence in White Nationalism. To me it's unimaginable that anyone could be that delusional.
Trump is a master of getting people to hear what they want to hear. It's almost like he speaks in political tongues.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Cripplecreek

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I remember looking at Occupy Wall Street's list of demands and thinking they had plagerized the NAZI party planks from 1922 Munich.

Offline guitar4jesus

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Trump is a master of getting people to hear what they want to hear. It's almost like he speaks in political tongues.

Aye...

Offline ConstitutionRose

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I think the people in attendance actually do think Trump will spark a resurgence in White Nationalism. To me it's unimaginable that anyone could be that delusional.

To answer Myst, I respond to these articles because I (unfortunately) know some of these people and the quote above is absolutely true.  I think they bear monitoring in that they appeal to the angry and the angry can become very dangerous.  The ones I know truly are thrilled with Trump's election and with their new visibility and the number of new recruits.
"Old man can't is dead.  I helped bury him."  Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas quoting his grandfather.

Offline Cripplecreek

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To answer Myst, I respond to these articles because I (unfortunately) know some of these people and the quote above is absolutely true.  I think they bear monitoring in that they appeal to the angry and the angry can become very dangerous.  The ones I know truly are thrilled with Trump's election and with their new visibility and the number of new recruits.

I see Ann Coulter on twitter this morning kissing their butts.

She says the Alt Right has never killed anyone and technically she's correct but the entity under the Alt Right banner has only existed for a couple of years at most. The ideology on the other hand has existed for centuries and killed a lot of people under various names.

Offline EC

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Can we stop calling them alt-right and go back to the correct term: bleeping Nazis?
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Can we stop calling them alt-right and go back to the correct term: bleeping Nazis?
:amen:
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Oceander

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Can we stop calling them alt-right and go back to the correct term: bleeping Nazis?

Bleeping fine with me.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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So to the alt-right, Trump will spark a resurgence in white nationalism, alienate all his minority followers and many of his white ones, and somehow win re-election in 4 years?


Delusional.

HonestJohn

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So to the alt-right, Trump will spark a resurgence in white nationalism, alienate all his minority followers and many of his white ones, and somehow win re-election in 4 years?


Delusional.

Not if one believes that America is a white christian nation who is now led by someone that will remove all the non-white, non-christians from their holy Aryan soil.

Then, everyone will be a white christian fascist and they'll be able to remove Trump for a real scion of their master race.

And with Bannon, they are the strategists for the Trump administration, so they can actually push for this.

1. Create a 'deportation' force.
2. Round up and deport a few million Mexicans as a test run.
3. Wait for a terrorist attack.
4. Round up and deport middle-east Muslims.
5. End birthright citizenship.
6. Round up and detain those new illegals (as the now have no citizenship from any country).

7. Finally go live with the now seasoned internal, state police force.

Does steps 1-5 sound like familiar campaign points from Trump?  They sound, as he's mentioned them all.

Offline ABX

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Not if one believes that America is a white christian nation who is now led by someone that will remove all the non-white, non-christians from their holy Aryan soil.

Then, everyone will be a white christian fascist and they'll be able to remove Trump for a real scion of their master race.

And with Bannon, they are the strategists for the Trump administration, so they can actually push for this.

1. Create a 'deportation' force.
2. Round up and deport a few million Mexicans as a test run.
3. Wait for a terrorist attack.
4. Round up and deport middle-east Muslims.
5. End birthright citizenship.
6. Round up and detain those new illegals (as the now have no citizenship from any country).

7. Finally go live with the now seasoned internal, state police force.

Does steps 1-5 sound like familiar campaign points from Trump?  They sound, as he's mentioned them all.

The problem with #6 is those who have already received birthright citizenship can't have that citizenship stripped from them. The law can't be made retroactive (ex post facto).

Offline SirLinksALot

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OK folks, enough with these labels. Unless we can define and describe the ATTRIBUTES of what constitutes alt-right, we cannot know with clarity whether or not it describes Donald Trump's personal sympathies.

So in the interest of clear thinking, here's my question --- Can one describe for us, what the alt-right is, what it believes and whether or not it shares much in common with say, the Tea Party or traditional conservatives?

If we can't define our terms, everything is but an exercise in name-calling.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 06:54:33 pm by SirLinksALot »

Offline SirLinksALot

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RE: Round up and deport middle-east Muslims.

You have to qualify that because as the above sentence stands, IT IS FALSE.

There is no attempt or proposal from ANY of Trump's team to round up and deport middle-east Muslims.




Offline ABX

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OK folks, enough with these labels. Unless we can define and describe the ATTRIBUTES of what constitutes alt-right, we cannot know with clarity whether or not it describes Donald Trump's personal sympathies.

So in the interest of clear thinking, here's my question --- Can one describe for us, what the alt-right is, what it believes and whether or not it shares much in common with say, the Tea Party or traditional conservatives?

If we can't define our terms, everything is but an exercise in name-calling.


For all intents and purposes, it is the authoritarian right who want to use the hammer of the government to force their issues and force society to become what they want. It is the pendulum swinging in the same degree to the right as it had to the left, it complains about PC but tries to enforce its own brand of PC. It disrespects the individual and champions identity politics in much the same way the left does, just with different identity groups.  Some like to say that it started in the gutter of the web like 4Chan, but in reality, you'll probably find it more in places like FR or InfoWars. It isn't about memes or Pepe like the media seem to want to make it out to be. They just seem to use and latch on to the worst of them in some sort of rebellious action. It lacks the counter-protest subtle action of Protest Warrior and it trashes the concepts of individualism first and liberty for a big, forceful government.

Even Milo himself stated a while back 'the alt-right isn't just populated with racists'* as though accepting them into the flock is somehow an acceptable norm.

*
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/09/19/milo-destroy-alt-right-speech/


It also isn't a term or a movement 'made up by the left or media' as some claim. At that, before it was being used against the Right, some like Milo, Coulter, and company embraced it. Milo even had a 'alt-right' party at the RNC.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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OK folks, enough with these labels. Unless we can define and describe the ATTRIBUTES of what constitutes alt-right, we cannot know with clarity whether or not it describes Donald Trump's personal sympathies.

So in the interest of clear thinking, here's my question --- Can one describe for us, what the alt-right is, what it believes and whether or not it shares much in common with say, the Tea Party or traditional conservatives?

If we can't define our terms, everything is but an exercise in name-calling.

For openers we have a folks out there who do not believe that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. 
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline TomSea

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For all intents and purposes, it is the authoritarian right who want to use the hammer of the government to force their issues and force society to become what they want. It is the pendulum swinging in the same degree to the right as it had to the left, it complains about PC but tries to enforce its own brand of PC. It disrespects the individual and champions identity politics in much the same way the left does, just with different identity groups.  Some like to say that it started in the gutter of the web like 4Chan, but in reality, you'll probably find it more in places like FR or InfoWars. It isn't about memes or Pepe like the media seem to want to make it out to be. They just seem to use and latch on to the worst of them in some sort of rebellious action. It lacks the counter-protest subtle action of Protest Warrior and it trashes the concepts of individualism first and liberty for a big, forceful government.

Even Milo himself stated a while back 'the alt-right isn't just populated with racists'* as though accepting them into the flock is somehow an acceptable norm.

*
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/09/19/milo-destroy-alt-right-speech/


It also isn't a term or a movement 'made up by the left or media' as some claim. At that, before it was being used against the Right, some like Milo, Coulter, and company embraced it. Milo even had a 'alt-right' party at the RNC.

A lot of libertarians on the right might be alt-right, someone like Rand Paul's old advisor,  the South Avenger, Jack Hunter and the audit the fed club as well, anti-immigration groups even like the Minute Men, the ranchers' rights groups.  This definition above is way too narrow, really proving that one, anyone, can't define the concept.  A lot of these folks might be what use to be called "reactionaries".  I don't see FR and Info-Wars calling for authoritarian types.

That definition above is a real mish-mash.