Author Topic: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate  (Read 2419 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-false-statements-20160925-snap-story.html

Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate

Michael Finnegan
 
Donald Trump says that taxes in the United States are higher than almost anywhere else on earth. They’re not.

He says he opposed the Iraq war from the start. He didn’t.


Now, after years of spreading the lie that President Obama was born in Africa, Trump says that Hillary Clinton did it first (untrue) and that he’s the one who put the controversy to rest (also untrue).

Never in modern presidential politics has a major candidate made false statements as routinely as Trump has. Over and over, independent researchers have examined what the Republican nominee says and concluded it was not the truth — but “pants on fire” (PolitiFact) or “four Pinocchios” (Washington Post Fact Checker).

Trump’s candidacy was premised on upending a dishonest establishment that has rigged American political and economic life, so many of his loyalists are willing to overlook his lies, as long as he rankles the powerful, said Republican strategist Rob Stutzman.

“It gives him not only license, but incentive to spin fantasy, because no one expects him to tell the truth,” said Stutzman, who worked against Trump during the primaries. “They believe they’re getting lied to constantly, so if their hero tells lies in order to strike back, they don’t care.”

Still, Trump’s pattern of saying things that are provably false has no doubt contributed to his high unfavorable ratings. It also has forced journalists to grapple with how aggressive they should be in correcting candidates’ inaccurate statements, particularly in the presidential debates that start Monday.

At a time of deep public mistrust of the news media, the arbitration of statements of fact, long seen as one of reporters’ most basic duties, runs the risk of being perceived as partisan bias.

But so does the shirking of that role. Fox News anchor Chris Wallace, one of the debate moderators, has faced a storm of criticism for telling CNN: “It’s not my job to be a truth squad.”

After a Sept. 7 town hall on NBC, critics skewered moderator Matt Lauer for failing to correct Trump’s false statement that he opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. CBS correspondent Lesley Stahl drew milder reprimands for letting Trump repeat the same lie twice in a July interview on “60 Minutes,” responding “yeah” both times with no correction.

Trump’s Democratic rival faces integrity questions of her own. A new Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found that 41% of voters saw Trump as better than Clinton at being honest and straightforward; just 31% thought that Clinton would be better than Trump in that area.

Republicans have used Clinton’s use of a private email server when she was secretary of State to cast doubt on her honesty, saying she has been untrustworthy for decades. Her efforts to fight back were damaged when FBI Director James B. Comey said in early July that she had been "extremely careless" in her handling of emails that officials said should have been considered classified.

Nonetheless, the scope of Trump’s falsehoods is unprecedented, and he is dogged in refusing to stop saying things once they are proved untrue.

BuzzFeed unearthed an audio recording showing that Trump backed the Iraq invasion and a 2011 video in which he called for swift military action against Moammar Kadafi, then the leader of Libya. In the months since those disclosures, Trump has lied dozens of times on both issues, saying he opposed the use of force in Iraq and Libya.

Trump campaign spokesmen Hope Hicks and Jason Miller did not respond to an email requesting comment on Trump’s history of falsehoods.

Thomas E. Mann, a resident scholar at UC Berkeley’s Institute of Governmental Studies, said Trump appears to recognize that a faction of the Republican Party has lost respect for facts, evidence and science — presuming, for example, that anything negative said about Obama is probably true.

Moreover, he said, the New York business mogul once thrived as a reality television star playing himself on “The Apprentice,” and in that realm there’s “no need to have any touch with genuine reality — it’s all as he defines it.”

They believe they’re getting lied to constantly, so if their hero tells lies in order to strike back, they don’t care.
— Rob Stutzman, Republican strategist

“He’s a salesman,” Mann said. “He’s a con man. He’s hustled people out of money that they’re owed. He’s lived off tax shelters. He’s always looking for a scheme and a con, and in that sphere, you just fall into telling lies as a matter of course.”

In “Trump: The Art of the Deal,” his 1987 best-seller, Trump said “a little hyperbole never hurts.”

“People believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration — and a very effective form of promotion,” he said.

Trump’s coauthor, Tony Schwartz, put it less benignly in a July interview with the New Yorker. “He lied strategically,” Schwartz recalled. “He had a complete lack of conscience about it.”

PolitiFact, a Tampa Bay Times site that won a Pulitzer for its coverage of the 2008 election, has rated 70% of the Trump statements it has checked as mostly false, false or “pants on fire,” its lowest score. By contrast, 28% of Clinton’s statements earned those ratings.

“As we noted when we awarded Trump our 2015 Lie of the Year award for his portfolio of misstatements, no other politician has as many statements rated so far down the dial,” PolitiFact writer Lauren Carroll reported in June. “It’s unlike anything we’ve ever seen.”

At a recent Trump rally in downtown Miami, supporters vouched for his trustworthiness.

“I think he has been very straightforward, whether people like it or not,” said Rosario Rodriguez-Ruiz, 42, a Republican real estate broker and accountant.

Some in the audience conceded that Trump might have cut corners in business, but said they were more troubled by what they called Clinton’s dishonesty about her email and the deadly 2012 raid on the U.S. diplomatic outpost in Benghazi, Libya. Miguel Pita, 56, said Trump had to “bend the rules” to avoid taxes. “I look at it as a ‘Catch Me If You Can’ type of deal,” he said.

Suzanne Roberts, 61, a retired Miami finance professor, said Clinton was “capable of spreading heinous rumors about anything, anyone, at any time.” As Elton John’s “Funeral for a Friend” blasted through the concert hall’s loudspeakers, she said Trump was correct to argue for five years that Obama was born outside the United States.

“He was born on a naval base in Mombasa, Kenya — that’s what I think,” Roberts said. “I’ve done some research.”

A few days earlier, Trump spoke at a black church in Flint, Mich. When he started to criticize Clinton, the pastor interrupted and asked him not to give a political speech.

“The audience was saying, ‘Let him speak, let him speak,’” Trump later told Fox News.

“That isn’t true,” reported National Public Radio correspondent Scott Detrow, an eyewitness. “In fact, several audience members began to heckle Trump, asking pointed questions about whether he racially discriminated against black tenants as a landlord.”


When Trump released his child-care plan on Sept. 13, he said Clinton didn’t have one. She did. He has often described himself as popular among African Americans; the latest Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found 7% of black voters support him.

Trump also depicts crime as rising and out of control in America’s inner cities despite years of falling crime rates. He has said that black people kill 81% of white homicide victims, when in fact whites kill 82% of white homicide victims, according to PolitiFact.

Marty Kaplan, a professor of entertainment, media and society at USC’s Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism, has two theories on Trump’s falsehoods.

Perhaps he’s just putting on  an act, like P.T. Barnum — a “marketer, con, snake-oil salesman who knows better, knows how to get the rubes into the tent.” Or maybe, Kaplan suggested, Trump is just “completely unconstrained by logic, rules, tradition, truth, law.”

“I’m confused,” he said, “whether the whole fact-free zone that he’s in is a strategic calculation or a kind of psychosis.”
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Quote
Thomas E. Mann, a resident scholar at UC Berkeley’s Institute of Governmental Studies, said Trump appears to recognize that a faction of the Republican Party has lost respect for facts, evidence and science — presuming, for example, that anything negative said about Obama is probably true.

There is no denial that Republicans are becoming more anti-intellectual as time goes on.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Bigun

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Trump is every bit as big a liar as Hillary and a lot more narcissistic!

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline uglybiker

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To be fair, as full of as he is, I think he still has a way to go to catch up to his opponent.

Another one of those consider-the-source things.
nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-BATMAN!!!

Offline mountaineer

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To be fair, as full of as he is, I think he still has a way to go to catch up to his opponent.

Another one of those consider-the-source things.
Agreed. He may be a huge liar, a fantastic liar, a great and fabulous liar - but not to point out Hillary's even greater mendacity is disingenuous.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Trump is every bit as big a liar as Hillary and a lot more narcissistic!



Wingnut

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Trump finally reached rock bottom and shows signs of starting to dig.

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And you did the lion's share of the work here for it.


Offline Suppressed

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Offline austingirl

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Agreed. He may be a huge liar, a fantastic liar, a great and fabulous liar - but not to point out Hillary's even greater mendacity is disingenuous.

Hitlery's lying has compromised National Security, got Americans killed at Benghazi, destabilized the ME, and lined her pockets with foreign money through the Clinton Crime Foundation. She wants to import more "refugees" and will follow Soros' and the muslim brotherhood's orders. She will ensure the death of the Republic. She lies easier than she breathes.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline beandog

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 04:48:04 pm »
To be fair, as full of as he is, I think he still has a way to go to catch up to his opponent.

Another one of those consider-the-source things.
I agree with you.  As much as I hate the Donald, I'm not going to stick up for the Beast.  She is a truly horrible person and is personally responsible for the death of American citizens. 

Clinton's campaign most certainly did put out that Obama was not born in this country.  Anyone denying it is a liar.

Wingnut

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2016, 06:27:15 pm »



Congratulations.

And you did the lion's share of the work here for it.

She couldn't have done it with out you guys in the Trump  12 step support group 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 06:28:46 pm by Wingnut »

Offline INVAR

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2016, 06:29:34 pm »



You made that inevitable the moment you chose a megalomaniacal self-absorbed lifelong NY liberal Democrat running as a Trojan Horse Republican to be your prince while declaring everyone who would not genuflect your political messiah as an enemy of the state or worse.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline ABX

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2016, 06:36:17 pm »
To be fair, as full of as he is, I think he still has a way to go to catch up to his opponent.

Another one of those consider-the-source things.

What we are faced with is basically the absolute worst of America on parade, and I'm not just talking about the two candidates but the entire system that empowers to dishonest, crooked, con artists to have that much power. And now doubters on both sides are told we must accept X or we'll get Y. At some point, we have to stand up and say Stop. Even if it is one voice saying it, it is better to speak alone than to follow the lemmings over the cliff. (yes, I know Lemmings don't really go over cliffs).

Offline ABX

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2016, 06:38:41 pm »



Well, at least you are now straightforward with your intentions when you supported the con artist Hillary friend.

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2016, 06:44:03 pm »
What we are faced with is basically the absolute worst of America on parade, and I'm not just talking about the two candidates but the entire system that empowers to dishonest, crooked, con artists to have that much power. And now doubters on both sides are told we must accept X or we'll get Y. At some point, we have to stand up and say Stop. Even if it is one voice saying it, it is better to speak alone than to follow the lemmings over the cliff. (yes, I know Lemmings don't really go over cliffs).

 :amen:  :amen: and  :amen: 

Couldn't have said it better myself!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline BuckeyeTexan

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2016, 06:45:55 pm »
Ladies and gentlemen, attention please
Come in close so everyone can see
I got a tale to tell, a listen don’t cost a dime
And if you believe that we’re gonna get along just fine

Now I’ve been travelin’ all around
I heard trouble’s come to your town
I’ve got a little somethin’, guaranteed to ease your mind
It’s called Snake Oil y’all, it’s been around for a long, long time

Way, your crops’ll burn if it don’t rain soon
Ain’t seen a drop since the tenth of June
Well, I can open up the sky, people have no fear
If you ain’t impressed yet, just tell me what you wanna hear.

Well, you lost your farm so you moved to town
You get a job, they shut the factory down
Now you sit around all day long feelin’ sad and blue
You need Snake Oil y’all, tell you what I’m gonna do

I can heal the sick, I can mend the lame
And the blind shall see again, it’s all the same

Well, ain’t your President good to you
Knocked ‘em dead in Libya, Grenada too
Now he’s taking his show a little further down the line
Well, ‘tween me and him, people, you’re gonna get along just fine

It’s call Snake Oil y’all
Snake Oil y’all
Snake Oil y’all
Call Snake Oil y’all
It’s call Snake Oil y’all, it’s been around for a long, long time

~Steve Earle

https://youtu.be/tjH1_94K060
There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle


Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2016, 07:08:50 pm »
You made that inevitable the moment you chose a megalomaniacal self-absorbed lifelong NY liberal Democrat running as a Trojan Horse Republican to be your prince while declaring everyone who would not genuflect your political messiah as an enemy of the state or worse.

Please, in the name of all that is holy @INVAR, get a grip.  I did not choose the candidate you despise.  Like it or not, agree with it or not, the majority of primary voters (I AM included in this) chose him.

Your posted drivel is replete with threats to take your marbles home and retreat to your basement because you object to the Republican winner, a desire to deny the majority their voice, and a preference for Hillary Clinton in the WH. 

Not exactly "conservative" bona fides there Invar.   :smokin:

« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 07:12:24 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Online Bigun

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2016, 07:15:19 pm »
Please, in the name of all that is holy @INVAR, get a grip.  I did not choose the candidate you despise.  Like it or not, agree with it or not, the majority of primary voters (I AM included in this) chose him.



No matter how many times you repeat that LIE it will forever remain a LIE!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline beandog

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2016, 07:25:13 pm »
Please, in the name of all that is holy @INVAR, get a grip.  I did not choose the candidate you despise.  Like it or not, agree with it or not, the majority of primary voters (I AM included in this) chose him.

Your posted drivel is replete with threats to take your marbles home and retreat to your basement because you object to the Republican winner, a desire to deny the majority their voice, and a preference for Hillary Clinton in the WH. 

Not exactly "conservative" bona fides there Invar.   :smokin:
The majority of primary voters did not in fact vote for the tRumpkin Pumpkin, as you are very well aware.  The majority voted for other candidates.  A plurality, including yourself, voted for the tRumpkin Pumpkin.  You are part of the tRumpkin Pumpkin Plurality.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2016, 07:29:00 pm »
Please, in the name of all that is holy @INVAR, get a grip.  I did not choose the candidate you despise.  Like it or not, agree with it or not, the majority of primary voters (I AM included in this) chose him.

So you contradicted yourself in one sentence.  You did not choose Trump, but you did choose Trump. 

How Orwellian of you.

I frankly don't give a crap if everyone in the country chose your prince and I alone refused.  I'm not governed by what everyone else does.  A plurality chose Hitler and his party to represent their desire for payback and 'making Germany Great Again' once, not that long ago - so I remain unmoved by reminders that you had a plurality of people who wanted your nominee to be their king.

And yes, I see your prince in exactly the same light as I do the Fascists from the 20's and 30's.  I do not care that you are offended at that comparison.  It fits.


Your posted drivel is replete with threats to take your marbles home and retreat to your basement because you object to the Republican winner, a desire to deny the majority their voice, and a preference for Hillary Clinton in the WH.

Well you're a lying sack of flaming dog poop - because I have no desire for Hillary to be Dear Leader.  To insist that is the case because I steadfastly REFUSE to vote for your NY Liberal Democrat running as your party leader is beyond insulting.  It's stupid and juvenile to continue to insist that because I'm voting for an actual bona-fide Conservative from a third party that somehow I am DENYING the 'majority' their voice.  You are doing what Democrats and Leftists do to those who disagree with them.  Perhaps you should just cut to the quick and call me a racist because I will not vote for Trump and get yourself out of your liberal closet for all to finally see.  In actuality - these tactics of yours are intended to deny me MY voice, MY choice.  Liberty for you and your fellow Trump fanatics has been revealed to be as thin as wet toilet paper stretched across an interstate.   In this way you are exactly like the Leftists you pretend to despise and fear; liberty for me but not for thee.

Not exactly "conservative" bona fides there Invar.   

And voting for a lifelong NY Liberal Democrat who not only funded the Clintons, the Schumer's and the DeBlasio's and whose stated trade policies are to the Left of Hillary's somehow illustrate's YOUR 'Conservative' bonafides?

While you make me laugh at your abject absurdity, it's your desire to impose tyranny via your prince I'm not laughing at.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Wingnut

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2016, 07:30:06 pm »
The majority of primary voters did not in fact vote for the tRumpkin Pumpkin, as you are very well aware.  The majority voted for other candidates.  A plurality, including yourself, voted for the tRumpkin Pumpkin.  You are part of the tRumpkin Pumpkin Plurality.

A fact pushed aside by the Trump Staatssicherheit

geronl

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Re: Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2016, 07:40:30 pm »
The majority of primary voters did not in fact vote for the tRumpkin Pumpkin, as you are very well aware.  The majority voted for other candidates.  A plurality, including yourself, voted for the tRumpkin Pumpkin.  You are part of the tRumpkin Pumpkin Plurality.

tRump Pumpers Plural Insanity