Cruz: I'm voting for Trump

[Smokin Joe]

I don't understand your point here.  Are you saying we shouldn't elect anyone unless they refuse to staff federal agencies, promise to repeal the APA, and pretend the bureaucracy doesn't exist?

I don't disagree with you that the entire regulatory state is out of control.  I personally think that regulations should not have the force of law unless ratified by Congress, and that the entire structure is unconstitutional.  But expecting an instant, immediate halt to that ignores reality.  What it would take is a serious of Administrations willing to ratchet them back.  And in the meantime, it's better to have agencies staffed by people who are less activist.

I don't see any reasonable basis not to believe that Trump's cabinet would be better in that regard than Hillary's, especially since Hillary's is likely going to exceed it's powers to grant voting rights to people who should not be permitted to vote.

My point is simple. I don't want more efficient overbearing government.
I don't think continuing to build something which should be eliminated is a good idea.
If you are going to clear a lot, you don't put a building on it, or add on to the one there.
With Trump's statements in Iowa, there will be at least one agency which won't be rolled back, and it is IMHO, the worst and most overreaching of all.  His understanding of land, aside from golf courses is a place to put a building. That only vaguely brushes on the concept of land as the 'means of production' it is to a logger, rancher, farmer, miner, or anyone who participates in an extractive industry that is fundamental to creating wealth. Without those raw materials, there won't be steaks, wine, or buildings.
I don't see him freeing those assets except to cronies who will benefit Trump. That has been his pattern of behaviour since day one. And, unfortunately, the use of assets as a means to personal gain is not limited to him, but applies to his opponent as well. The only difference I see is one of who will be selling what to whom, but either way, they gain and America loses.

[kartographer]

And it seems very clear to me that you have absolutely no idea of the context in which I made that statement.  The context was asking for evidence of how Trump will actually destroy the conservative movement once in office.  The comparison was Hillary enabling the registration and voting of up to ten million illegal voters, and packing the Supreme Court with progressive activists who will issue rulings finding that much of the progressive agenda is constitutionally mandated.  That is something from which there is no recovery.

In response, I was quoted a serious of stupid statements/ridiculous threats made by some Trump supporters.  I then pointed out that statements like "we'll all have to "bow down" to Trump", or that non-Trump supporters will be "hunted down with dogs" are not reality.  They are braggadocious B.S., and do not reflect what will happen after the election.

Given that you very clearly did not pay attention to what had been said earlier, I'll just ask you directly:

Which do you believe is more likely to actually occur?

A) If Hillary is elected, she will 1) appoint progressive justices who will grant constitutional protections to much of the progressive agenda, and 2) loosen voting and immigration restrictions so as to enable the casting of votes by millions of new voters who should not be eligible; or,

B) If Trump is elected, we will all be forced to bow down to him, and everyone who didn't vote for him will be hunted down like dogs.

Which of those do you think, in reality, is the more plausible scenario?

No seeming to it, you very clearly dodge the context of the discussion and have I have little hope that you intend to address the subject at hand.  That being that Trump supporters have repeatedly made almost as many outrageous statements about Trump, his abilities and what he would be able to accomplish as President as he has. That when Trump supporters are confronted by the outrageous nature of their statements they like Trump have not back off, but doubled down as to the accuracy of their assertions and savagely attacked those pointing out the fallacy of their contentions and have dueled to the death over supporting their statements of delusions.

You on the other hand use the second favorite tactic of Trump supporters, changing the argument. Well play sir, well played.

[Vulcan]

Trump & Hillary are on the same side.

And by extension, so are those who support them. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

No seeming to it, you very clearly dodge the context of the discussion and have I have little hope that you intend to address the subject at hand.  That being that Trump supporters have repeatedly made almost as many outrageous statements about Trump, his abilities and what he would be able to accomplish as President as he has. That when Trump supporters are confronted by the outrageous nature of their statements they like Trump have not back off, but doubled down as to the accuracy of their assertions and savagely attacked those pointing out the fallacy of their contentions and have dueled to the death over supporting their statements of delusions.

I don't dispute that at all, nor am I dodging the point..  There are a lot of Trump supporters who say incredibly stupid things, and are as ridiculously thin-skinned as he is.  I have called some of them out on this very site in the last couple of days, but honestly, it's a point that's been beaten into the ground for months now.  I suppose that's a fun issue to keep batting around if your goal is to score points against the "other side", and there's no shortage of material.  So there -- your point addressed.

But my concern in this thread -- which I expressed long before you addressed me -- was the danger each would present after being elected.  So given that you chose to comment on a post of mine that wasn't directed to you, and that was on a different subject, how about you doing me the equivalent courtesy of addressing my point?  I'll ask it again, in case you've forgotten.

Which do you believe is more likely to actually occur?

A) If Hillary is elected, she will 1) appoint progressive justices who will grant constitutional protections to much of the progressive agenda, and 2) loosen voting and immigration restrictions so as to enable the casting of votes by millions of new voters who should not be eligible; or,

B) If Trump is elected, we will all "be forced to bow down to him", and everyone who didn't vote for him "will be hunted down with dogs."

Which of those do you think, in reality, is the more plausible scenario?

[Smokin Joe]

I guess it boils down to who you want to start the next revolution.

If Congress fails to step up and strip either sort of program of funding, either is a possibility.

If they would do the job they were sent to DC to do, it is likely we would not be in this mess to begin with, and they could prevent either scenario. One of the jobs of Congress is to provide a check to and balance out Executive branch authoritarianism.

[INVAR]

Which do you believe is more likely to actually occur?

A) If Hillary is elected, she will 1) appoint progressive justices who will grant constitutional protections to much of the progressive agenda, and 2) loosen voting and immigration restrictions so as to enable the casting of votes by millions of new voters who should not be eligible; or,

B) If Trump is elected, we will all "be forced to bow down to him", and everyone who didn't vote for him "will be hunted down with dogs."

Which of those do you think, in reality, is the more plausible scenario?

Ask my grandfather.  He grew up in Germany in the 1930's.  He's still kicking and screaming about Trump - and few to none are listening.

He'll tell you which scenario he sees actually occurring right now with BOTH A & B occurring one on top of another -  Trump and his hordes of belligerent fanatics being the result of the fear a people have of Communists taking power.

He lived it.  He recognizes how plausible and angry, frightened people demanding punishment on their enemies can be forged to hunt down their enemies with dogs and force everyone to bow down to an egomaniacal leader who knows he will act as a dictator.

I'll take his warnings over any 'calm and reasonable doubts'.

[INVAR]

The argument that Trump is a liberal is meaningless, so what?

At least you admit what every Trump supporter I am reading lies to themselves about.  So what if Trump is a liberal?  He's YOUR liberal.  So what if Trump will be a dictator?  He'll be YOUR dictator.  Those sentiments I have read far and wide.  They do not care what he is or is not.  He is their champion.  He is their messiah.  He is their Deliverer.

at least he is not uniparty, not owned by the uniparty and not beholden to the uniparty.

Right, sure.  Keep telling yourself that despite the mountains of facts that Trump has funded, campaigned for and promoted the Uniparty for the desire to benefit himself.

With Trump there is a chance we can stop the Marxist Globalist take over of the USA

Except your messiah funded, campaigned for, praised and voted for Marxist/Communist Bill DeBlasio less than 3 years ago.  He and his companies are the very engines of crony Fascism and corrupt kleptocracy he suddenly now claims to be against and you people claim he was never part of.

Horseshiite. He was the gasoline that helped keep their engines running bub.

it's the people vrs the ruling elites and like it or not Trump is leading the people.

I'm pretty sure 99.99% of these 'people' you claim Trump is leading do not have gilded gold toilet seats like the ruling elite your own political savior does.

Your boy certainly does not lead me.  He leads a mob of fanatics issuing death threats for people who will not genuflect their prince.

[kartographer]

I don't dispute that at all, nor am I dodging the point..  There are a lot of Trump supporters who say incredibly stupid things, and are as ridiculously thin-skinned as he is.  I have called some of them out on this very site in the last couple of days, but honestly, it's a point that's been beaten into the ground for months now.  I suppose that's a fun issue to keep batting around if your goal is to score points against the "other side", and there's no shortage of material.  So there -- your point addressed.

But my concern in this thread -- which I expressed long before you addressed me -- was the danger each would present after being elected.  So given that you chose to comment on a post of mine that wasn't directed to you, and that was on a different subject, how about you doing me the equivalent courtesy of addressing my point?  I'll ask it again, in case you've forgotten.

Which do you believe is more likely to actually occur?

A) If Hillary is elected, she will 1) appoint progressive justices who will grant constitutional protections to much of the progressive agenda, and 2) loosen voting and immigration restrictions so as to enable the casting of votes by millions of new voters who should not be eligible; or,

B) If Trump is elected, we will all "be forced to bow down to him", and everyone who didn't vote for him "will be hunted down with dogs."

Which of those do you think, in reality, is the more plausible scenario?

No Sir you are dodging the point. My post to you was in response yo your post 1129 in which you said:

Talk about not being serious....

In what universe do you take every stupid statement someone makes and accept it as fact?  If Omarosa said that Trump was going to sprout wings and fly to the Sun and back, would you accept that as fact?  Then why pass off as fact her asinine statement that everyone will have to "bow down" to Trump???

No, everyone will not have to bow down to Trump.  Nor will they have to bow down to Hillary either, for that matter.  That, at least, is well beyond the ability of either of them to enforce.

My post clearly was on point as to the number, the size and the frequency of such statements and the willingness of Trump supporters to go to war if necessary to defend their statements no matter  how outrageous they might be.

We are called upon to do the right thing no matter if we win or lose. Doing the wrong thing for the right reason is never the right thing. The powers that be have given us Liar/Cheat and Liar liar /Cheat and I will support neither.

"You cannot do wrong and feel right. It is impossible!"

“If you vote for the lesser of two evils you are still voting for evil and you will be judged for it. You should always vote for the best possible candidate, whether they have a chance of winning or not, and then, even if the worst possible candidate wins, the Lord will bless our country more because more people were willing to stand up for what is right.“

Ezra Taft Benson

[jpsb]

Trump & Hillary are on the same side.

Totally ridiculous comment. Hillary is a corrupt, incompetent, Marxist, Globalist hell bound to enrich herself (and Bill) by delivering the USA to her fascist globalist banker Bosses.  Trump is an slightly boorish American patriot.

@geronl
@Vulcan

[jpsb]

I guess it boils down to who you want to start the next revolution.

If Congress fails to step up and strip either sort of program of funding, either is a possibility.

If they would do the job they were sent to DC to do, it is likely we would not be in this mess to begin with, and they could prevent either scenario. One of the jobs of Congress is to provide a check to and balance out Executive branch authoritarianism.

Most members of Congress and just about everyone employed by the federal government are members of the uniparty. Remember the goal of the uniparty memebers is to enrich themselves at the expense of the American people. Until we stop sending uniparty members to Congress you can expect NOTHING to change. You want change? Vote Trump and then unelect anyone and everyone that opposes his agenda. Doing anything other than what I have outlined will result in the takeover of the USA by the Marxist Globalists.

We are looking at the end of the USA this cycle if Hillary is elected.

And no revolution is going to save us once we have fallen in to the hands of the globalists. You can just forget about that.

@Smokin Joe

[Smokin Joe]

Most members of Congress and just about everyone employed by the federal government are members of the uniparty. Remember the goal of the uniparty memebers is to enrich themselves at the expense of the American people. Until we stop sending uniparty members to Congress you can expect NOTHING to change. You want change? Vote Trump and then unelect anyone and everyone that opposes his agenda. Doing anything other than what I have outlined will result in the takeover of the USA by the Marxist Globalists.

We are looking at the end of the USA this cycle if Hillary is elected.

And no revolution is going to save us once we have fallen in to the hands of the globalists. You can just forget about that.

@Smokin Joe

Trump, who deals internationally with the same globalist bankers you decry Hillary for hobnobbing with, is a major contributor to both wings of the uniparty. In fact, he has done more damage to the GOP than the Democrats this year, has sullied the "Conservative" label, and is likely in cahoots with the lot. Just because he hasn't held office doesn't make him an 'outsider', because 'outsiders' don't get far in New York City megadollar real estate development. She's pretty damned capitalist for a "Marxist Globalist", charging the speaking fees she does.

I would rather avoid a revolution, but don't look to Trump for salvation, either.

[jpsb]

At least you admit what every Trump supporter I am reading lies to themselves about.  So what if Trump is a liberal?  He's YOUR liberal.  So what if Trump will be a dictator?  He'll be YOUR dictator.  Those sentiments I have read far and wide.  They do not care what he is or is not.  He is their champion.  He is their messiah.  He is their Deliverer.

Right, sure.  Keep telling yourself that despite the mountains of facts that Trump has funded, campaigned for and promoted the Uniparty for the desire to benefit himself.


Except your messiah funded, campaigned for, praised and voted for Marxist/Communist Bill DeBlasio less than 3 years ago.  He and his companies are the very engines of crony Fascism and corrupt kleptocracy he suddenly now claims to be against and you people claim he was never part of.

Horseshiite. He was the gasoline that helped keep their engines running bub.

I'm pretty sure 99.99% of these 'people' you claim Trump is leading do not have gilded gold toilet seats like the ruling elite your own political savior does.

Your boy certainly does not lead me.  He leads a mob of fanatics issuing death threats for people who will not genuflect their prince.

Well I hope you enjoy president Hillary, you deserve her, since you are unwilling to back the only candidate that might be able to stop and her anti-American, pro amnesty, pro Muslim brotherhood, pro corruption government.  And by all means keep deluding yourself into thinking there is no difference between Hillary and Trump. Even the leader of the #NeverTrump movement, Ted Cruz, realizes that president Hillary would be a disaster for the USA. President Hillary would mean the end of Constitutional government in the USA.  But go right ahead and keep those blinders on your eyes.


By the way, your hyperbole about "dictator" and "messiah" are way over the top.

[Smokin Joe]

Well I hope you enjoy president Hillary, you deserve her, since you are unwilling to back the only candidate that might be able to stop and her anti-American, pro amnesty, pro Muslim brotherhood, pro corruption government.  And by all means keep deluding yourself into thinking there is no difference between Hillary and Trump. Even the leader of the #NeverTrump movement, Ted Cruz, realizes that president Hillary would be a disaster for the USA. President Hillary would mean the end of Constitutional government in the USA.  But go right ahead and keep those blinders on your eyes.
By the way, your hyperbole about "dictator" and "messiah" are way over the top.

There you go again, with the you "hate' him so you love her. 

I think they are both FUBAR.

I think they will, either one, be an absolute disaster unmitigated by a spineless Congress and a corrupt Court. I don't support either one of them, but one thing is for d@mned sure, my lack of support for him doesn't constitute support for her any more than my lack of support for her constitutes support for him. Neither one of them is going to take us one jot closer to being the Republic this country was intended to be.

He's all yours, and when those chickens come home to roost, they are going to be full of crap.

[LMAO]

Totally ridiculous comment. Hillary is a corrupt, incompetent, Marxist, Globalist hell bound to enrich herself (and Bill) by delivering the USA to her fascist globalist banker Bosses.  Trump is an slightly boorish American patriot

While what you posted has a lot of truth in it,neither is the remedy this country needs. Trump is already promising to outspend Hillary on things like " infrastructure" and has proposed a new entitlement in a time when we cannot afford the ones we already have.

Neither of these two seem to be very concerned about our growing debt and deficits. And one only needs to take a look around the world and look at other nations to see what happens when you don't reign in spending and use borrowing and printing to finance promises you've made to the citizenry

Trumps and Hillarys come and go. The damage they can do will last for generations. The spending programs they will leave behind will only grow and never go away once people come to depend on them and expect them

[jpsb]

Trump, who deals internationally with the same globalist bankers you decry Hillary for hobnobbing with, is a major contributor to both wings of the uniparty. In fact, he has done more damage to the GOP than the Democrats this year, has sullied the "Conservative" label, and is likely in cahoots with the lot. Just because he hasn't held office doesn't make him an 'outsider', because 'outsiders' don't get far in New York City megadollar real estate development. She's pretty damned capitalist for a "Marxist Globalist", charging the speaking fees she does.

I would rather avoid a revolution, but don't look to Trump for salvation, either.

Most people will seek a second opinion when their doctor gives them a terminal diagnoses. Hillary means the death of the USA. She has promises to begin the destruction of the USA within her first 100 days. Did you get that? Hillary is going to kill the USA, period. Nothing will save us once Hillary takes office. So yeah, I'm for Trump, as is everyone with a brain that wants to keep the USA a constitutional republic. At this point, with what we now know about Hillary, I'm thinking anyone that is not backing Trump wants to see the USA destroyed.  (I will excluded a tiny few that have religious reasons to object to Trump.)

As I explained earlier the "conservative label" has been destroyed beyond repair by the likes of H.W. Bush, W. Bush, J. McCain, M. Romey, Paul Ryan, Lindsey Graham, John Boehner, William Krystal, etc, etc, etc. Labels mean nothing now. You really need to get pass this label thing you keep going back too. The Marxist Globalists have taken over both parties.  George W Bush does not have a conservative bone in his body and I am willing to bet you voted for W. Trump is vastly more conservative than W ever thought about being.

[LMAO]

The reason the conservative label was destroyed by the GOP and GWB is because they, instead of reigning in spending and shrinking the size and scope of the Federal government, spent, spent, spent and added new programs to the budget.

Trump has already made it clear he will continue that path

[LMAO]

Most people will seek a second opinion when their doctor gives them a terminal diagnoses. Hillary means the death of the USA. She has promises to begin the destruction of the USA within her first 100 days. Did you get that? Hillary is going to kill the USA, period. Nothing will save us once Hillary takes office. So yeah, I'm for Trump, as is everyone with a brain that wants to keep the USA a constitutional republic. At this point, with what we now know about Hillary, I'm thinking anyone that is not backing Trump wants to see the USA destroyed.  (I will excluded a tiny few that have religious reasons to object to Trump.)

And to think, a few posts up you accused another poster of engaging in hyperbole

[jpsb]

There you go again, with the you "hate' him so you love her. 

I think they are both FUBAR.

I think they will, either one, be an absolute disaster unmitigated by a spineless Congress and a corrupt Court. I don't support either one of them, but one thing is for d@mned sure, my lack of support for him doesn't constitute support for her any more than my lack of support for her constitutes support for him. Neither one of them is going to take us one jot closer to being the Republic this country was intended to be.

He's all yours, and when those chickens come home to roost, they are going to be full of crap.

Hillary will kill the republic, period. No one doubts that. Hillary will appoint Marxist to the courts including the Supreme Court. There is a zero chance of Hillary not appointing activist Marxist Judges to the Supreme Court. There is zero chance of the Senate blocking her appointments.

Trump on the other hand says he will appoint non activist conservatives to the courts. Now maybe you don't believe him, fine, but with Hillary it is a certainty that conservatives will lose the courts FOREVER.  Did you catch that? We lose the courts FOREVER if Hillary is elected. With Trump there is a chance to keep them out of hands of the Marxists.

Hillary has promised to grant amnesty to tens of millions of illegals within her first 100 days. Trump says he will send them all home, starting with the bad ones first. Again maybe you do not believe him but with Hillary it is a certainty that tens of millions of new Marxists voters will be voting in 2020.  At least with Trump there is hope that he will send the illegal invaders home.

I could go on but I think you get my point. The choice is Hillary, Trump or go sulk in the corner.  Hillary is certain death so I'm for Trump.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Trump & Hillary are on the same side.

[roamer_1]

Totally ridiculous comment. Hillary is a corrupt, incompetent, Marxist, Globalist hell bound to enrich herself (and Bill) by delivering the USA to her fascist globalist banker Bosses.  Trump is an slightly boorish American patriot.

There's a tricky one gents... This is how you apply turd polish with the back of your hand...

[Longmire]

By the way, your hyperbole about "dictator" and "messiah" are way over the top.

Beyond over the top...they're paranoid delusions.

[sinkspur]

Beyond over the top...they're paranoid delusions.

Like this?

"I know more about ISIS than the generals do.  Believe me."

[Smokin Joe]

Most people will seek a second opinion when their doctor gives them a terminal diagnoses. Hillary means the death of the USA. She has promises to begin the destruction of the USA within her first 100 days. Did you get that? Hillary is going to kill the USA, period. Nothing will save us once Hillary takes office. So yeah, I'm for Trump, as is everyone with a brain that wants to keep the USA a constitutional republic. At this point, with what we now know about Hillary, I'm thinking anyone that is not backing Trump wants to see the USA destroyed.  (I will excluded a tiny few that have religious reasons to object to Trump.)

As I explained earlier the "conservative label" has been destroyed beyond repair by the likes of H.W. Bush, W. Bush, J. McCain, M. Romey, Paul Ryan, Lindsey Graham, John Boehner, William Krystal, etc, etc, etc.

Who said they were conservatives? The game has been to say they are MORE conservative than their opponent, so we should elect them. YeeeeHaw! Here we go again, draw your ride and see if you can hang on for another eight years! Puhleeze.

Labels mean nothing now. You really need to get pass this label thing you keep going back too. The Marxist Globalists have taken over both parties.  George W Bush does not have a conservative bone in his body and I am willing to bet you voted for W. Trump is vastly more conservative than W ever thought about being.

Just put the crack pipe down and step away from the keyboard, please.

[jmyrlefuller]

Beyond over the top...they're paranoid delusions.

"It can't happen here!"

[jpsb]

Like this?

"I know more about ISIS than the generals do.  Believe me."

At least Trump would not arm ISIS and train ISIS unlike Hillary. At least Trump would not leave his people to die with out trying to get them help, unlike Hillary.