No, Tulsa Cops Didn’t Shoot A Black Man With His Hands Up

[rangerrebew]

No, Tulsa Cops Didn’t Shoot A Black Man With His Hands Up

September 20, 2016| by Brian Anderson

You may have noticed a particular level of outrage today over the police shooting of a black man in Tulsa, OK. According to the left side of the Internet, racist white police officers gunned down a black man who had his hands up and was trying to surrender. In reality, the police shot a man who refused to obey commands and made a sudden movement that any reasonable person would perceive as a threat.

ABC News reports that on Friday Tulsa PD officers were responding to a call when they came upon a white SUV sitting in the middle of the road, blocking both directions of traffic. They approached the vehicle, which was running and found it was empty. Lefties are insisting that the car had broken down, but if it was still running, that’s not true.

http://downtrend.com/71superb/no-tulsa-cops-didnt-shoot-a-black-man-with-his-hands-up

[SirLinksALot]

SOURCE: HOTAIR.COM

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/09/20/video-shooting-terence-crutcher/

by: AllahPundit


It’s not clear what happened in the last few fateful moments but some facts are undisputed. Crutcher was unarmed, Tulsa’s police chief admitted yesterday, and had no weapon in his car. He had his hands up as he walked slowly away from the police and towards his SUV with an officer, Betty Shelby, trailing behind him. As he reached the driver-side door, Shelby and another officer stopped a few feet behind the SUV and trained their pistols on him. They were joined by two more cops. Then things took a turn: At some point in the next few moments, as Crutcher stood beside the door, the second officer tasered him and then Shelby fired one shot at him, killing him.

Why was Crutcher’s SUV in the middle of the road? The Times says Shelby responded to the scene after “after the police received reports of an abandoned vehicle blocking a road”:

In an interview, Officer Shelby’s lawyer, Scott Wood, said the officer had thought that Mr. Crutcher had a weapon. Mr. Wood said Mr. Crutcher had acted erratically, refused to comply with several orders, tried to put his hand in his pocket and reached inside his car window before he was shot.

Chief Jordan said Officer Shelby had encountered Mr. Crutcher and his vehicle while en route to another call and requested backup because she was “not having cooperation” from him. Officer Turnbough and his partner responded to Officer Shelby’s request for backup. It was the dashboard camera in their patrol car that recorded the shooting.

There are two recordings, one from a helicopter plus the dashboard cam video, both of which are featured in the clip below. Neither one is close enough, though, to give you a good idea of exactly what’s going on once Crutcher gets to the SUV, and the dashboard angle is obstructed by the group of cops gathered at the back of the vehicle.

Did Crutcher reach through the window into the car — a police spokesman says he did — and did officers on the scene warn him specifically not to do that? If he’d been uncooperative to that point and “erratic,” the police may have thought he was on something (one of the cops in the chopper speculates about that during the clip) and worried that he was going for a gun. That would have been nuts with four cops ready to fire at him just feet away, but “erratic” people can do nutty things. Even so, Crutcher makes no sudden moves in the clip. His hands, as noted, are in the air. The cops had a nonlethal means of subduing him available, the taser, and they put it to use, raising the question of why Shelby felt obliged to shoot. Did the taser not bring him down? Even if it didn’t, with no hard evidence that Crutcher was armed, was Shelby obliged to at least catch a glimpse of a weapon before deciding to kill him, just in case?

The audio of what the cops said to Crutcher and what he said back may end up being more valuable than the video at trial, assuming that that audio exists. The DOJ has already opened an investigation into the shooting. Crutcher is survived by four kids.

[Axel]

The agitators don't care if the video is inconclusive. They've decided they're going to bypass the court of law, and convict all LEO's in the court of public opinion before all the evidence is parsed.

[Taxcontrol]

The suspect should have been tasered when he attempted to return to his vehicle.  He should have never been allowed to reach the point were he could touch the vehicle.

[SirLinksALot]

The suspect should have been tasered when he attempted to return to his vehicle.  He should have never been allowed to reach the point were he could touch the vehicle.

The audio should tell us what happened. Was he told NOT to return to his car?

Then, we have to sync the audio with the video... were his hands still up while he was moving towards the car?

That will tell us a lot.

[Cripplecreek]

The agitators don't care if the video is inconclusive. They've decided they're going to bypass the court of law, and convict all LEO's in the court of public opinion before all the evidence is parsed.

Looks like they already are on twitter.

Unless the cop ordered him to put his hands up and walk back to his car (Unlikely), he was resisting. Beyond that I can't really judge whether it was justified or not.

[driftdiver]

Looks like they already are on twitter.

Unless the cop ordered him to put his hands up and walk back to his car (Unlikely), he was resisting. Beyond that I can't really judge whether it was justified or not.

He should have been tasered.

Cops treat every stop as if the person is planning to kill them.   It sets the stage for some poor decisions and costs people their lives.

[SirLinksALot]

Terence Crutcher, Man Killed by Tulsa Police, Was Family Man Who Sang in Church Every Sunday, Twin Sister Says

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/terence-crutcher-man-killed-by-tulsa-police-was-family-man-who-sang-in-church-every-sunday-twin-sister-says-169835/#ErkFWVVefDgVF7xx.99

[Axel]

Looks like they already are on twitter.

Unless the cop ordered him to put his hands up and walk back to his car (Unlikely), he was resisting. Beyond that I can't really judge whether it was justified or not.

That was my take on it as well. It's hard to tell from video, and unfortunately people today think that's all they need to justify taking to the streets in protest and even killing LEO's. Obviously, this isn't going to help the situation.

I can't tell how much is sheer opportunism, and how much is the disease of liberalism taking over. It's almost like they enjoy when these events happen, given how adeptly they swoop in and commandeer the narrative time after time.

[chae]

@driftdiver

Darren Wilson didn't approach Michael Brown like that, and as a result is lucky he wasn't shot and killed with his own weapon.

[SirLinksALot]

I have a different perspective on this case and that relates to deadly use of force by law enforcement officers.

Does mere failure to obey justify shooting and killing someone? <-- that is the more relevant question.

 Simply 'reaching for' something justifies a 'snap decision' to shoot?

Here's the deeper question --- a cop is 'In fear of'  his life, yet, he is required to be 'reasonable and prudent'. What is he supposed to do?

I will grant that, there are murderous Black Lives Matter members and I will grant that there are trouble makers of all stripes who want to destroy cops, but that does not justify the citizenry being nothing more than collateral damage to the 'new normal' of law enforcement.

Put it another way ... does Police Procedure become more important than a citizen's right to life?

Anyone who cannot relate to the grief of the wife and children of Terence Crutcher ought to ask themselves this -- how would you feel if your son/husband was shot by cops for simply reaching out for  ID in his pocket?

[Axel]

I have a different perspective on this case and that relates to deadly use of force by law enforcement officers.

Does mere failure to obey justify shooting and killing someone? <-- that is the more relevant question.

 Simply 'reaching for' something justifies a 'snap decision' to shoot?

Here's the deeper question --- a cop is 'In fear of'  his life, yet, he is required to be 'reasonable and prudent'. What is he supposed to do?

I will grant that, there are murderous Black Lives Matter members and I will grant that there are trouble makers of all stripes who want to destroy cops, but that does not justify the citizenry being nothing more than collateral damage to the 'new normal' of law enforcement.

Put it another way ... does Police Procedure become more important than a citizen's right to life?

Anyone who cannot relate to the grief of the wife and children of Terence Crutcher ought to ask themselves this -- how would you feel if your son/husband was shot by cops for simply reaching out for  ID in his pocket?

I don't disagree, but again, you're jumping to conclusions.

[Restored]

Prediction:
Priors
Drugs in his system (just saw a tweet that said PCP)
Mental illness

I once watched a guy risk being shot so he could go to his car and throw a bag of pills into a ditch where the cop just picked them up. Then he swore they were not his. Of course, it was on video. Their desire to avoid going to jail is what gets them killed.

[sinkspur]

No surprise there's anger.  This was a completely avoidable shooting, and this female officer lost her cool.

Too many trigger happy cops out on the streets.

[Frank Cannon]

The suspect should have been tasered when he attempted to return to his vehicle.  He should have never been allowed to reach the point were he could touch the vehicle.

I agree. They should have brought him down with tasers the moment he began moving backwards instead of allowing this to escalate to a dangerous situation.

There are too many red flags about this dead morons behavior from why was the car just abandoned in the middle of the street to why didn't he listen to commands. Suicide by cop?

[Mom MD]

The suspect should have been tasered when he attempted to return to his vehicle.  He should have never been allowed to reach the point were he could touch the vehicle.

Tasers are not always the answer.  They will not always bring down someone who is high or mentally disturbed.  If you had a split second to make a life or death decision would you trust your life to a taser working?  I wouldn't

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver

Darren Wilson didn't approach Michael Brown like that, and as a result is lucky he wasn't shot and killed with his own weapon.

@chae
Not following your logic or why that has anything to do with my comments.

[driftdiver]

No surprise there's anger.  This was a completely avoidable shooting, and this female officer lost her cool.

Too many trigger happy cops out on the streets.

Its somewhat of a viscous circle.  You have a segment of the population with a disregard for other people and the law.   They glorify law breaking in every sense.  Cops are expected to police those criminals mixed in with the law abiding.   

Now throw in Obama/Soros with their efforts to destabilize the country and federalize the police.   They are providing the match to inflame groups of people.

Cops don't wanna die and are being trained to consider every single person they encounter as a deadly threat.  This cops reaction is the predictable result.

[Oceander]

Looks like they already are on twitter.

Unless the cop ordered him to put his hands up and walk back to his car (Unlikely), he was resisting. Beyond that I can't really judge whether it was justified or not.

Resisting arrest, or as it's more widely known, refusing to obey a police officer's order, is nothing more than carte blanc for cops to arrest whomever they want, whenever they want, without anything even remotely like probable cause that a real, actual, live crime was committed.

If you sneeze in front of a cop you've probably technically violated the resisting arrest/disobeying an order rule.

I dealt with a number of these types of B.S. charges when I was doing an internship with a public defender's office, and I can tell you that it is widely abused by cops, too many of whom are ill-trained.

I'm happy to reserve ultimate judgment on this one until more of the facts are in, the hysteria has abated somewhat (on both sides) and we've all had time to cogitate on it, but I will say my initial reaction, based on the preliminary evidence (evidence is not fact, btw), is that the cops fired too quickly with insufficient provocation.  This happens all too often; it would do the whole world a world of good if cops were given much better training in how, and when, to use their firearms.  The military does heavy training in urban combat for some units, which often involves training in making split-second decisions about whether the person in the room who's screaming is an attacker you can shoot, or just a poor civilian whom shooting would be a war crime; cops should be given similar training.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I saw the video, looked like he reached in his pocket to me. Does that warrant being shot? Probably not, but it's stupid to do when a cop's gun is trained on you.

[Longmire]

Its hard to reach inside a car if the door is closed and the window is rolled up.

Police helicopter video seems to indicate that was the case.

[bolobaby]

I have a different perspective on this case and that relates to deadly use of force by law enforcement officers.

Does mere failure to obey justify shooting and killing someone? <-- that is the more relevant question.

 Simply 'reaching for' something justifies a 'snap decision' to shoot?

Here's the deeper question --- a cop is 'In fear of'  his life, yet, he is required to be 'reasonable and prudent'. What is he supposed to do?

I will grant that, there are murderous Black Lives Matter members and I will grant that there are trouble makers of all stripes who want to destroy cops, but that does not justify the citizenry being nothing more than collateral damage to the 'new normal' of law enforcement.

Put it another way ... does Police Procedure become more important than a citizen's right to life?

Anyone who cannot relate to the grief of the wife and children of Terence Crutcher ought to ask themselves this -- how would you feel if your son/husband was shot by cops for simply reaching out for  ID in his pocket?

I believe you bring up an excellent point.

Failure to obey police commands should not justify a shooting. The police should only be able to shoot under the *same circumstances* which a private citizen would be allowed:

"...lethal force is permissible when you or other innocent life face an imminent, credible risk of death or grievous bodily harm, and imminence is imminent."

The last part is important - the threat has to actually be happening. You can make an assumption by the way someone looked at you, or because I reached into a bag to get something. Or...

"...even if it’s a blood-soaked knife-wielding maniac waving a knife in the air, you can’t shoot them until they begin their attack."

That's the basic standard for concealed carry holders. It should be the same for cops, and perhaps more strictly enforced as they are supposed to be well-trained in this matter.

(Source of quotes: http://concealednation.org/2015/03/a-closer-look-at-a-big-question-when-can-you-legally-shoot-someone-in-self-defense/)

[CSM]

I have a different perspective on this case and that relates to deadly use of force by law enforcement officers.

Does mere failure to obey justify shooting and killing someone? <-- that is the more relevant question.

 Simply 'reaching for' something justifies a 'snap decision' to shoot?

Here's the deeper question --- a cop is 'In fear of'  his life, yet, he is required to be 'reasonable and prudent'. What is he supposed to do?

I will grant that, there are murderous Black Lives Matter members and I will grant that there are trouble makers of all stripes who want to destroy cops, but that does not justify the citizenry being nothing more than collateral damage to the 'new normal' of law enforcement.

Put it another way ... does Police Procedure become more important than a citizen's right to life?

Anyone who cannot relate to the grief of the wife and children of Terence Crutcher ought to ask themselves this -- how would you feel if your son/husband was shot by cops for simply reaching out for  ID in his pocket?

I understand the questions that you are mulling over.  Let me add one fact, as it might be helpful in understanding these situations. 

The amount of time it takes the average person to draw a weapon and fire a round is approximately 0.7 seconds.  Not 7 seconds, but 7 tenths of a second.  In other words, if you blink, you might miss the draw!

It is not wise to reach for anything while a police officer has you in his/her sights. 

[goatprairie]

Twice as many white males than black males are shot and killed by the police annually.  I'd like to ask all the racial arsonists who are whipping up unrest over the shootings of black males if they can name ONE!!! white male who was shot and killed by the police this year.  I doubt any of them could. In my state of Wisconsin there have been a number of fatal shootings of white males by the police in various parts of the state. Nobody rioted over these shootings.

[skeeter]

Twice as many white males than black males are shot and killed by the police annually.  I'd like to ask all the racial arsonists who are whipping up unrest over the shootings of black males if they can name ONE!!! white male who was shot and killed by the police this year.  I doubt any of them could. In my state of Wisconsin there have been a number of fatal shootings of white males by the police in various parts of the state. Nobody rioted over these shootings.

(Only) black lives matter.