ABC: RNC Considering Options If Trump Drops Out

[Luis Gonzalez]

Stop the personal attacks!

These idiot's posts and their personal attacks on me stay up three hours and two and a half hours respectively and not a peep from a Mod or anyone.

I decide to hit back and then we get you in here in a matter of minutes?

What a couple of wusses these guys.

Beat on the abuse button like a set of bongos the second that they get it back in kind

[Luis Gonzalez]

I agree with Luis on Trump but not on much of anything else.  Why fight about.  But they're just getting caught up in the heat of the moment and the drive to one up the last jab.  It will pass.  It's easy for me to shame the squabblers from the sidelines, but it is very hard not to throw return punches -- and sometimes who started it is in the eye of the beholder and may have been a long time coming based on past conversations.  It will pass.

Hard to think of something "a long time coming" from members who've been here three weeks.

[Mod1]

These idiot's posts and their personal attacks on me stay up three hours and two and a half hours respectively and not a peep from a Mod or anyone.

I decide to hit back and then we get you in here in a matter of minutes?

What a couple of wusses these guys.

Beat on the abuse button like a set of bongos the second that they get it back in kind

You didn't hit "Report to Moderator" even once.  Work with us here.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You didn't hit "Report to Moderator" even once.  Work with us here.

I don't do mod abuse buttons.

But their posts were quoted in my responses.

[Mod2]

I don't do mod abuse buttons.

But their posts were quoted in my responses.

We all have jobs and those strangely demanding things called lives and families.

You want it to be seen, hit abuse. You don't we either don't see it or assume you are fine with it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

We all have jobs and those strangely demanding things called lives and families.

You want it to be seen, hit abuse. You don't we either don't see it or assume you are fine with it.

I appreciate your concern, but I don't really need Mods to come to my defense.

Apparently they do, but I don't. I can handle them myself.

If you imagine however, that I would be fine with being told that I support the man whose goons had several of my family members executed by a firing squad or hung from a tall tree.

[JustPassinThru]

I appreciate your concern, but I don't really need Mods to come to my defense.

Apparently they do, but I don't. I can handle them myself.

If you imagine however, that I would be fine with being told that I support the man whose goons had several of my family members executed by a firing squad or hung from a tall tree.

Yah, well, I didn't do any mod-abuse button.

It was a serious question.  When something does not follow, you start looking for the "why."

That's what I'm doing now.  WHY would anyone want more Bush?  I can't think of a single reason or recommendation.

I'm asking why this poster is so strenuous in fighting for something so...someone who is at once, so contemptuous, yet so bland, and so eager to appease Leftists.

I guess that's considered a personal attack, now.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Yah, well, I didn't do any mod-abuse button.

It was a serious question.  When something does not follow, you start looking for the "why."

That's what I'm doing now.  WHY would anyone want more Bush?  I can't think of a single reason or recommendation.

I'm asking why this poster is so strenuous in fighting for something so...someone who is at once, so contemptuous, yet so bland, and so eager to appease Leftists.

I guess that's considered a personal attack, now.

I'm not fighting for anyone.

Jeb had a great conservative record as a Governor, and I am an individual who looks at past performance when deciding where my support goes.

The electorate in general are idiots who vote on visceral reactions over facts and data.

The personal attack was your asking me if my ethnicity drove my opinions.

Does yours?

[musiclady]

Yah, well, I didn't do any mod-abuse button.

It was a serious question.  When something does not follow, you start looking for the "why."

That's what I'm doing now.  WHY would anyone want more Bush?  I can't think of a single reason or recommendation.

I'm asking why this poster is so strenuous in fighting for something so...someone who is at once, so contemptuous, yet so bland, and so eager to appease Leftists.

I guess that's considered a personal attack, now.

It was the reference to ethnicity that was personal, and very wrong.

I noticed it myself, and perhaps should have been the one to hit the abuse button (which I almost never do).

[geronl]

http://nationalreport.net/sarah-palin-trump-earned-purple-heart-fighting-lamestream-media-war/

Parody site but I think it is something she might have said, were she not out of contact with civilization in Alaska.

“Although Donald Trump is not a veteran of a militarized foreign wartime activity involving our great nation, he has honorably earned the precious pendant by surviving multiple wounds sustained at the hands of the lamestream media’s slings and arrows, fired from radical upstarters who continue to blast their cannon fodder of gotcha journalism point blankedly in his face.”

 

[Luis Gonzalez]

I suppose each of us are shaped by our heritage and background.  How can it be any differently?  Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves. That doesn't have to mean we hate the other guy.  The same principles true for one are true for us all.  Behavior is another matter.  All behavior is not equal.

Luis, I remember when everyone at TOS loved Jeb.  I do think he moved left a bit.  Mostly I think some rabid anti-immigration people (they say it is only illegal immigration but sometimes you must wonder) so hate Jeb's immigration policy that they are willing to lie about everything else.  I don't thing that is true of the person you've been arguing with.  Some also turned against Jeb over the Terry Shiavo issue.  Personally I sympathize with both sides.  Jeb fought and fought but in the end stopped fighting.  I wish he had gone even further.  It seems self defeating to hold it against him forever.  The issue was the talk of the nation and the pressure was extreme.  So he's imperfect.  The left decided it was a hill to die on.  The right didn't.  All in all I feel the most for the parents.  What a horrible thing to have the state say your child does not deserve her life.

I still say Jeb is an honest man of good character.  That is big.  He's imperfect.  Too bad he has moved left on some issues important to me.  And too bad his last name is Bush.  I just hate the idea of a dynasty.

There's a world of difference between heritage and ethnicity.

[r9etb]

There's a world of difference between heritage and ethnicity.

Not sure I understand your point.  "Vote for the man, not the name," perhaps?

[Emjay]

To your point, I agree.  Limbaugh is past his sell-by date.

To his addiction:  He has had back and spinal issues in the past.  Those can be painful - as a genetically-overweight late-middle-age man I can testify.  He was treated with pain medicine that had the potential to be very, very addictive.

About the same time his hearing went.  An odd variety of auto-immune deficiency, was the final verdict...but nobody knew then.  Deafness is a problem with broadcasters, since they have different channels, to the engineer, to phone patches, or other circuits, in different earpieces.  If you've ever had to listen to ONE earphone, you know it doesn't seem loud enough, ever - you crank up the volume, and over time that does permanent damage.

At first they tried hearing aids.  So the problem got worse - and it wasn't something that a hearing aid could treat.  It wasn't the eardrum but the very nerves which were being destroyed.

And next they tried a wide variety of drug cocktails.  This WHILE Limbaugh had back issues.  Bottom line is, a witch's brew of addiction got in there.

It can happen.  Nobody rides Christ Matthews for being a dried-out drunk, do they?  Or Gov. Ma Richards, who was a practicing alcoholic.

Limbaugh got through it.  Good on him.  Bad it went that way.

But the way he did, and the way success has led him to live...a very, very rarified life...has left him out of touch. 

And his no longer being with the radio-station bowling league, and whatever other normal contacts he had, eventually affected both his humor and his outlook.  In the vernacular of the day, he's lost touch.

This is WHY persons shouldn't hold power positions for long periods.  Doesn't matter if it's a Congressman, a radio star, President of American Widget.  You lose your unique insight and you become, not the problem-solver and change agent, but the problem yourself.

Time for Limbaugh to go.  He can help best by bringing in some fresh blood...help them get started; use his structure and business connections to get them going.

Excellent post about Rush.  He was once my conservative lodestar and I will always respect him for that.  It must have taken an enormous amount of drive and willpower to go through what he did and still be able to do a radio  show.

Addiction to prescription pain meds may be as bad or worse than addiction to illegal drugs.  NFL players are trying to get marijuana approved as a safer alternative for pain.

Even this year, Rush was fairer on the Trump issue than most voices on the radio and Net.  He was despised on TOS because he preferred Ted Cruz.

I don't know what's going on with him now because he's gone trump on us.  I know he hates Hillary and the Clintons and so do I.  I could respect Rush going with Trump as an alternative to something worse.  But he's gone further and is now trying to defend Trump against the indefensible.

So many once good people throwing themselves on the raging inferno of Trump's death throes.

[JustPassinThru]

It was the reference to ethnicity that was personal, and very wrong.

I noticed it myself, and perhaps should have been the one to hit the abuse button (which I almost never do).

Once again...it's not wrong or an attack if it's part of the picture.

We're not being "very wrong" if we assume someone who blows himself up in a kosher deli, whose name is withheld...if we assume his name isn't Joe Smith or Hans Bjornoff.  Or if we assume his faith isn't Methodist or Deist.

We know the Bush family has an unfailing, irrational desire to bring as many Latino non-Americans in this nation as quickly as possible.  Is it an attack to suppose that would lead to otherwise irrational support from someone who identifies as Latino?

[Emjay]

I hate it when interesting threads disintegrate into person squabbles.

[JustPassinThru]

I suppose each of us are shaped by our heritage and background.  How can it be any differently?  Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves. That doesn't have to mean we hate the other guy.  The same principles true for one are true for us all.  Behavior is another matter.  All behavior is not equal.

Luis, I remember when everyone at TOS loved Jeb.  I do think he moved left a bit.  Mostly I think some rabid anti-immigration people (they say it is only illegal immigration but sometimes you must wonder) so hate Jeb's immigration policy that they are willing to lie about everything else.  I don't thing that is true of the person you've been arguing with.  Some also turned against Jeb over the Terry Shiavo issue.  Personally I sympathize with both sides.  Jeb fought and fought but in the end stopped fighting.  I wish he had gone even further.  It seems self defeating to hold it against him forever.  The issue was the talk of the nation and the pressure was extreme.  So he's imperfect.  The left decided it was a hill to die on.  The right didn't.  All in all I feel the most for the parents.  What a horrible thing to have the state say your child does not deserve her life.

I still say Jeb is an honest man of good character.  That is big.  He's imperfect.  Too bad he has moved left on some issues important to me.  And too bad his last name is Bush.  I just hate the idea of a dynasty.

There are plenty of decent, honest men who have no business being President - or even city councilman.

And I'd be inclined to agree with your assessment of the Bushes - it may even be mostly true.

Where in this decent, honest and moral picture, do you find the contemptuous declaration of JEB!'s intention to get the nomination by ignoring, marginalizing the party base?  That is neither moral nor honest.  And since he'd planned to do that by taking the PAY of cronies...basically, legalized graft...it's hardly moral, either.

That's when that door swung shut.  When I saw those signs, "Miss Me Yet?" my answer was YES.  But W is not JEB.  And if W had exposed himself as contemptuous (no other word describes it) of his party's voters, I'd have had a lot less warm fuzzies for him, even.

[JustPassinThru]

We see the world through the eyes we are given.  Both apply in how we see the world.  I was just trying to say that political principles and issues of right and wrong are the same across the board for all.  You and I are 100% equal in the eyes of God and before the law (ideally).    We may see things based on our own nature and nurture perspectives, but that doesn't change right from wrong.  The fact that you can bring a different perspective than I can is valuable.  You can tell stories like you did above about family members that I have no idea about.  I am sure I could tell you some things about experiences you've never had.  None of that changes right from wrong.

I'm just blabbing on trying to make peace between you.  If I am missing the point, I apologize.  Try not to worry about it too much.  Maybe it was a quick response that was not intended in the way you took it.  Or not.  Just talk to the rest of us an don't worry about it.  You can't change other people.

He had an assertion.

I challenged the assertion.

His way of fighting back was to work into a state of high dudgeon and pretend I'm attacking on ethnicity.  I am not; and anyone open to reading what I've posted can see that.

Anyone interested in shutting DOWN discussion, knows how.

[Luis Gonzalez]

He likes the Bushes and you won't talk him out of it.  As far as I know none of them are running for anything right now, so no biggie.

I liked GWB better than Gore.

Didn't you?

I liked GWB better than Kerry.

Didn't you?

I would prefer Jeb over Hillary.

Wouldn't you?

In fact, I'd prefer just about anyone, including Pennywise the Dancing Clown, over Hillary, but I will not vote for Trump.

Why did I support Jeb?

As Governor of my State...

He led the fight for school choice and broke the teachers union hold in Florida with the first-in-the-nation school choice program.

He cut nearly $20 billion in taxes and reduced the size of the State government by 10%. He privatized foster care, adoption services, legal representation for death row prisoners, human resources, state purchasing, and state parks. Altogether, he moved 13,000 positions off of the state payroll — more than 10 percent of the government in Florida.

He banned late term abortions, championed and passed the "Parental Notification Act" mandating doctors to notify parents of a minor at least 48 hours before terminating a pregnancy.

He ended Affirmative Action in government contracts and college admissions in the State.

He championed and signed the nation's first "stand your ground" law and received top ratings from the NRA.

He cut taxes in Florida more times than any other Governor, including first a reduction and then a repeal of the state's tax on personal assets such as investments, a rollback of a school property tax, a bigger property tax break for veterans, and a property tax exemption for childcare facilities. Jeb cut taxes every year that he was a Governor.

He further reduced government by moving Medicaid recipients to private managed-care plans, which also reduced the costs to taxpayers.

He signed into law the State's first school voucher program, allowing parents to take their kids out of failing schools.

He ended Affirmative Action for State workers, contractors and college admissions.

I'll leave out his record regarding the State's economy because arguable, every State was doing fairly well at the time.

So Jeb was a staunchly pro-life, solidly pro 2A, tax-cutting, government-reducing, deadly enemy of unions and Affirmative Action Governor, but people question the validity of my support for him.

My question is why would anyone NOT support him over Trump?

because of his last name?

Not supporting a highly qualified candidate with a solid track record because of their last name makes as much sense as supporting a completely unqualified one because of his skin color, or an unconvicted felon because of her gender.   

[Luis Gonzalez]

He had an assertion.

I challenged the assertion.

His way of fighting back was to work into a state of high dudgeon and pretend I'm attacking on ethnicity.  I am not; and anyone open to reading what I've posted can see that.

Anyone interested in shutting DOWN discussion, knows how.

You did.

Others who did read what you posted thought so as well, and said as much on the thread.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Once again...it's not wrong or an attack if it's part of the picture.

We're not being "very wrong" if we assume someone who blows himself up in a kosher deli, whose name is withheld...if we assume his name isn't Joe Smith or Hans Bjornoff.  Or if we assume his faith isn't Methodist or Deist.

We know the Bush family has an unfailing, irrational desire to bring as many Latino non-Americans in this nation as quickly as possible.  Is it an attack to suppose that would lead to otherwise irrational support from someone who identifies as Latino?

Just another idiotic, unsupported assumption in your part.

I'm not a Latino.

Never was.

I am an American, and you can't get that because of your own built in prejudices.

I am not one dimensional, but in your one-dimensional view of the world, everyone is one dimensional.

[JustPassinThru]

Who the immigrants are is irrelevant.  Is the law being followed?  That's what is relevant.

As regards the suitability of the candidate, yes.

Now.  Are the Scions of Shrub, open to ALL immigrants?  Are they fighting for, say, Australian immigrants?  French immigrants?  They are not.

They've picked and chosen a certain ethnicity of immigrant they want to have as much of.  So, too, has our alleged President - although it's a much-different ethnicity and much more dangerous.

If Mohammed bin Allah wants to post here on what a great Preezy Barry Dunham-Soetoro has been...should his comments be suspect and taken in context, or NOT?

And if Manuel Laborro comes here and says what a great President will be Cipher Shrub...should we, or should we not, take in context what illegal actions SHRUB wants to push through?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Not sure I understand your point.  "Vote for the man, not the name," perhaps?

Do you vote for someone just because they're white?

Is that how you decide how to cast your vote?

[EC]

Anyone interested in shutting DOWN discussion, knows how.

That's barking so far up the wrong tree you are in a completely different forest. It's Luis you are talking about here. He loves arguing, it's his hobby, and would never shut down a thread.

Having said that, I took the reference to be "You know something of despots and all around shits from personal/family experience - what's your take?" 

[sitetest]

I'm not fighting for anyone.

Jeb had a great conservative record as a Governor, and I am an individual who looks at past performance when deciding where my support goes.

The electorate in general are idiots who vote on visceral reactions over facts and data.

The personal attack was your asking me if my ethnicity drove my opinions.

Does yours?

I like Jeb.  Like RAT Patrol, it seems to me that he's moved left a little since his governorship, but at least for me, policy-wise, he hasn't moved outside the Overton window.

My problem with him is his last name and his relationships with past presidents.  We are  a republic, not a monarchy with a hereditary dynasty.  I didn't like Kennedys in part for this reason.  This is another reason I'm opposed to hitlery (although it's a fairly small reason).  I'm afraid that the orange a$$hoIe is looking to foist its spawn us.

I don't like the idea of our national politics controlled by a small group of dynastic families, especially the ones who are able to combine political power to great wealth.

That being said, Jeb is honorable, decent, fairly conservative,  and I would vote for him in a heartbeat over hitlery or the insane, stupid ignoramus.

[musiclady]

Once again...it's not wrong or an attack if it's part of the picture.

We're not being "very wrong" if we assume someone who blows himself up in a kosher deli, whose name is withheld...if we assume his name isn't Joe Smith or Hans Bjornoff.  Or if we assume his faith isn't Methodist or Deist.

We know the Bush family has an unfailing, irrational desire to bring as many Latino non-Americans in this nation as quickly as possible.  Is it an attack to suppose that would lead to otherwise irrational support from someone who identifies as Latino?

Actually, yes it is. 

Especially when Luis has delineated his factual reasons for believing Jeb was a good Governor.   You may not agree with those reasons, but it is a huge, and erroneous leap to assume that the reason he thinks Jeb governed as a Conservative is that he is of Cuban descent.

Is it fair for me to assume that since you hate the Bushes so much it is because you are a racist and hate people of Latino heritage?  Is it fair for me to assume that you hate Jeb because of the ethnicity of his wife?   Seriously...... would that be fair??

Is it fair for you to assume that because I have a Swedish heritage that I support socialism?  Is it fair for you to assume that because I am female, that I want Hillary to be President?

What you did to Luis was to make an unfair and inaccurate assumption based on your own biases, and you have thus far not been able to defend your comments with logic or reason.