Trump Abandons Last Vestiges of Conservatism, Promises a Considerable Hike in Minimum Wage

[Night Hides Not]

The problem with Trump is that he's completely clueless about how the world works for the rest of us.

When he says things will cost a little more, I doubt he considers the fact that $20 more per month already causes a fair amount of stress for a family of 4 getting by on $1000 or less per month. After all, he probably spends more in the course of a normal day than most of us make in a year.

If only I had to worry about another $20/month. I'm planning for assuming another obligation, thanks to my spouse and in-laws. She, and a few sentimental siblings, have decided to retain their parents' house and turn it into rental property. To pay off those that wanted to cash out, and make necessary repairs, the equity loan will be in the range of $75K-$100K. They say they have a renter ready to move in, but I know what's going to happen when the rent's late, or the house sits empty. Let's not dwell on a future event, such as the housing bubble bursting, and the LTV exceeds 100%

I'm fully expecting the Bank of Night Hides Not to be their alternate source of cash flow when expenses and debt service exceed the monthly income.

 

[ABX]

His wife probably costs more than that per hour.

One Hermes purse can run $20k to $50k.

[roamer_1]

The problem with Trump is that he's completely clueless about how the world works for the rest of us.

When he says things will cost a little more, I doubt he considers the fact that $20 more per month already causes a fair amount of stress for a family of 4 getting by on $1000 or less per month. After all, he probably spends more in the course of a normal day than most of us make in a year.

As an aside: It's funny how naturally unaware one can be - Before I was struck down by illness, I owned/ran 2 companies with about 10 employees on average... I considered myself highly efficient wrt economy and cash flow... And others thought so too, as I was always helping other businessmen find ways to save money by way of efficiency.

The same for my house. We lived in what I considered to be a fairly frugal state - We always ate alright, and had what we needed, but in order to teach my children, I felt it was important to do without extravagances, that they would learn the value of things.

Then I became ill, and lost it all... And now I live well on what I used to spend on business lunches and fancy coffee every month.

It is a caution... And no wonder that the fat cats don't understand... I wasn't all THAT fat, and I didn't get it at all.

[Cripplecreek]

As an aside: It's funny how naturally unaware one can be - Before I was struck down by illness, I owned/ran 2 companies with about 10 employees on average... I considered myself highly efficient wrt economy and cash flow... And others thought so too, as I was always helping other businessmen find ways to save money by way of efficiency.

The same for my house. We lived in what I considered to be a fairly frugal state - We always ate alright, and had what we needed, but in order to teach my children, I felt it was important to do without extravagances, that they would learn the value of things.

Then I became ill, and lost it all... And now I live well on what I used to spend on business lunches and fancy coffee every month.

It is a caution... And no wonder that the fat cats don't understand... I wasn't all THAT fat, and I didn't get it at all.

I was lucky, I was born poor so not having throwaway money just isn't an issue for me. Frugality is my natural state.

Michigan Governor Rick Snyder is another one of those politicians who harms lower and middle class people. He doesn't do it out of animosity, he does it because living paycheck to paycheck simply doesn't register with a man worth $200 million. When he doubled the vehicle registration fees it didn't really affect him in any meaningful way. A vehicle registration that goes from $200 to $400 overnight is a major hardship with a lot of people. Buying into the green energy hype has driven energy costs sky high but I bet he's never seen a shutoff notice in his life.

When people like that do decide to care about the poor they invariably do the wrong thing and drive more people into poverty with higher taxes to "care for the poor". It makes them feel good that they're doing something to help.

To really help the poor men like this should be slashing taxes and regulation wherever they find them. That lifts a pile of rocks off the backs of the poor so they can begin to increase their own value and standard of living.

[roamer_1]

I was lucky, I was born poor so not having throwaway money just isn't an issue for me. Frugality is my natural state.

Yeah - I know hard times... We were always 'high class rednecks', meaning that our house didn't have axles under it - But I was farm raised, with chores and gardens, and putting up for a rainy day... I remember times when I had 13-patch pants - My mom would fix them that many times before I got a new pair...

And in my own house, we went through hard times too... The fight to be successful (even limited success) was not always pretty. But that's exactly what I wanted to be sure was put into my kids.

You are right to say you were lucky to be born poor... Because when SHTF (and it will at some point for most folks), poor folks weather that sort of thing far better than those who have so very far to fall. The tools it takes for getting by are never lost.

To really help the poor men like this should be slashing taxes and regulation wherever they find them. That lifts a pile of rocks off the backs of the poor so they can begin to increase their own value and standard of living.

As always, it seems, we agree.

Had a lad that lived down the way from my pre-finish paint shop... His daddy died in military service, and his mamma was making do with 3 kids... The boy had a serious sense of being 'the man of the house', and helping his mamma out. He was too young to hire, so I paid him cash out-of-pocket to sweep up around the place and sometimes gave him projects that if he completed them well, I would pay him with things he or his family needed - a bike, a tv, a computer, etc...

You wouldn't believe the trouble I got into for 'hiring' that kid. And worse than the fines and penalties, I was prevented from ever hiring the kid as he came of age, when he had a shoe-in for an apprenticeship.

The stupidity of the system punished me for helping to take the edge off for that family, and for teaching the boy a trade and a decent work ethic. It punished him by taking away that income and teaching... and it punished his mamma and his whole house by denying them the little bit he could bring in.

That goes right to that 'pile of rocks' you're talking about.

[bilo]

I am a small businessman involved in real estate. My experience with govt interference in my business has caused me to adapt in ways that those who wanted more "freebies" didn't anticipate. Over the last 8 years I've reduced my number of employees dramatically and filled those spots with contractors. In addition to this I began exploring opportunities outside the USA (mostly Panama) and discontinued expansion in the USA. I know most people will think I'm a bad guy for doing these things, but for me my first obligation is to God, then Family and finally Country. I have built a business that I would like to pass on to my sons, if they desire to be a part of it. I'm not a social welfare agency.

So when candidates come out with ideas that add cost to running a business you can bet business people will adapt.

[Night Hides Not]

I am a small businessman involved in real estate. My experience with govt interference in my business has caused me to adapt in ways that those who wanted more "freebies" didn't anticipate. Over the last 8 years I've reduced my number of employees dramatically and filled those spots with contractors. In addition to this I began exploring opportunities outside the USA (mostly Panama) and discontinued expansion in the USA. I know most people will think I'm a bad guy for doing these things, but for me my first obligation is to God, then Family and finally Country. I have built a business that I would like to pass on to my sons, if they desire to be a part of it. I'm not a social welfare agency.

So when candidates come out with ideas that add cost to running a business you can bet business people will adapt.

Don't blame you a bit. I shut down my CPA sole proprietorship when I went to work for the FDIC about 7 years ago. Between the hassle and rising cost of licensing, peer review, and continuing education, it wasn't worth it to me. I was never one to charge pernicious hourly rates, but more to the point, it became boring. I had prepared tax returns of nearly every variety for nearly 30 years, and I was cooked.

I have no desire to return to accounting in the private sector, as I was burned at CPA firms and as a small company CFO. So, I'm passing time in the public sector for a couple more years until retirement. In reality, I won't "retire", but occupy myself with several activities, such as working with a nonprofit that is taking on obesity with healthier eating: Project 20Teen.

https://project20teen.org/

[mirraflake]

MW needs to be raised. The MW I earned in 1978 at my first job is about $10.00 today inflation calculator.

[chae]

I seem to remember a news story that said in cities where the minimum wage was raised, several employees requested less hours so they would still have an income low enough to keep getting the welfare benefits, like food stamps and section 8.

[roamer_1]

MW needs to be raised. The MW I earned in 1978 at my first job is about $10.00 today inflation calculator.

No it doesn't. Minimum wage needs to be determined by the market - in other words, it needs to go away.
wages are an 'x' factor in the cost of doing business. if the wage raises, so does the retail price to allow for it.
and if the business cannot meet the wage cost and still profit, jobs will be lost at the bottom.
Thus, all raising the minimum wage does is hurt the job market at the bottom, and raise the cost of goods.

It's the stupidest thing possible, especially in a struggling market.

[JustPassinThru]

MW needs to be raised. The MW I earned in 1978 at my first job is about $10.00 today inflation calculator.

A wage is a private relationship between employer and employee.

Government interference is beyond the limits of the Constitution.  If the Constitution means anything.

There is no place for POLITICAL mandates on private ECONOMIC matters.  The person applying for a job may not be worth $10 an hour.  The business may not have the money to afford to pay an unskilled helper that wage.

All society may be poorer (and is poorer) than in 1978.  The wealth of a society is part of what adds up to a wage...which is why Koreans assembling cars used to get far less than Detroiters assembling cars.  Even though the Koreans did it better.

The only justifiable Minimum Wage is NO minimum wage.  If an employer won't pay a "fair" wage, no one will work for him.

There is not, as the Leftists like to pretend, any collusion between the hundreds of thousands of businesses and employers.  There is only the economic realities that all of them have to work with.

[roamer_1]

I seem to remember a news story that said in cities where the minimum wage was raised, several employees requested less hours so they would still have an income low enough to keep getting the welfare benefits, like food stamps and section 8.

Yep. I read that too.

[massadvj]

MW needs to be raised. The MW I earned in 1978 at my first job is about $10.00 today inflation calculator.

By what moral authority do you presume to tell me as an employer how much I must pay for labor?  By what moral authority do you presume to tell me as a laborer how much I must accept for my services?  Majority rules?  The purpose of having rights is to prevent the majority from circumventing the fundamental rights of life, liberty and property.  My labor is my property.  I should have the right to give it away if I want, and the collective should have no say in the matter one way or another.

[geronl]

A wage is a private relationship between employer and employee.

There is not, as the Leftists like to pretend, any collusion between the hundreds of thousands of businesses and employers.  There is only the economic realities that all of them have to work with.

Imagine an economic collapse occurs. All of these ridiculous regulations will be nothing but chains. If the government still tried to enforce them, nobody would be able to get anywhere. Then again, I think most of the elite would like it that way.

I just had the thought about the insanity. Cowboys on the cattle drives made what, a buck a day? Could you imagine if the eastern states with the high populations trying to force them to be paid more? Then again they probably knew this would raise the price of their meat. In a lot of ways, the world is just dumber now.

[geronl]

I seem to remember a news story that said in cities where the minimum wage was raised, several employees requested less hours so they would still have an income low enough to keep getting the welfare benefits, like food stamps and section 8.

Also stories where the employees no longer qualified for tips or got special benefits like a free meal. Many of these employees were now poorer because of the new wage.

[SirLinksALot]

Also stories where the employees no longer qualified for tips or got special benefits like a free meal. Many of these employees were now poorer because of the new wage.

Well, now that this is all out in the open.... the Dems will MANDATE that they should still be qualified for tips and special benefits like a free meal.... See how easy it is to pass a new law? /sarc

[bilo]

Don't blame you a bit. I shut down my CPA sole proprietorship when I went to work for the FDIC about 7 years ago. Between the hassle and rising cost of licensing, peer review, and continuing education, it wasn't worth it to me. I was never one to charge pernicious hourly rates, but more to the point, it became boring. I had prepared tax returns of nearly every variety for nearly 30 years, and I was cooked.

I have no desire to return to accounting in the private sector, as I was burned at CPA firms and as a small company CFO. So, I'm passing time in the public sector for a couple more years until retirement. In reality, I won't "retire", but occupy myself with several activities, such as working with a nonprofit that is taking on obesity with healthier eating: Project 20Teen.

https://project20teen.org/

Most people don't have your perspective. They really don't understand how govt regulations make doing business so much harder than it has to be. Eventually they will regulate people out of work. Minimum wage hikes means more robotics in the work place. All they're doing is eliminating the ability of businesses to have entry level positions where they can weed out people they want and people who aren't working out.

[truth_seeker]

By what moral authority do you presume to tell me as an employer how much I must pay for labor?  By what moral authority do you presume to tell me as a laborer how much I must accept for my services?  Majority rules?  The purpose of having rights is to prevent the majority from circumventing the fundamental rights of life, liberty and property.  My labor is my property.  I should have the right to give it away if I want, and the collective should have no say in the matter one way or another.

How about when the government facilitates, illegal immigrants flooding the labor market, for lower and lower wages? Or perhaps importation of "refugees."

Say your dad fought in WWII or Vietnam, to give his children a good life, and they can't even support themselves or families, on today's the depressed pay rates.

And that takes place, when the son wants to do the same work his father did with three children?

Didn't that American family have an implied contract, with the government and society at large?

[bilo]

MW needs to be raised. The MW I earned in 1978 at my first job is about $10.00 today inflation calculator.

MW should be eliminated. Anyone who shows up on time (10 mins. early) works hard, is always trying to learn, has an upbeat disposition and stays late without complaint will earn more quickly. If an employer doesn't recognize how valuable this type of person is another employer will.

What a lot of people don't realize is a lot of union contracts have clauses that stipulate automatic increases in the event that MW goes up. So if you raise MW it's going to trigger price increases throughout the economy.

[roamer_1]

Say your dad fought in WWII or Vietnam, to give his children a good life, and they can't even support themselves or families, on today's the depressed pay rates.

You might look at the fact that we all work nonstop from January to July, maybe even August supporting the government...

Hw much more money would be in your pocket if that was only to March?

[bilo]

How about when the government facilitates, illegal immigrants flooding the labor market, for lower and lower wages? Or perhaps importation of "refugees."

Say your dad fought in WWII or Vietnam, to give his children a good life, and they can't even support themselves or families, on today's the depressed pay rates.

And that takes place, when the son wants to do the same work his father did with three children?

Didn't that American family have an implied contract, with the government and society at large?

You pose a great question and your slant is why MW will end up being increased regardless of the consequences.

Let me illustrate what I've done in order for my business to remain profitable. I've eliminated most employees and hired back most of them as contractors. I did this primarily because the new health insurance requirements exploded the premiums as well as the costs of matching social security, medicare taxes, unemployment insurance and administrative costs. All the well intended govt regulations come with costs and when I can't pass on those costs to my customers I find ways to eliminate the underlying cost.

Minimum wage is especially nasty in how it causes the opposite of what is intended. As wages go up I am less inclined to give a young person a chance. It just costs too much. So what happens to the young person who not only wants to make some money, but more importantly needs to learn what it is to have a job and what is required of him. The answer is he doesn't get a job.

MW jobs are entry level jobs. They are not jobs people should aspire to for careers.   

[INVAR]

How about when the government facilitates, illegal immigrants flooding the labor market, for lower and lower wages? Or perhaps importation of "refugees."

Say your dad fought in WWII or Vietnam, to give his children a good life, and they can't even support themselves or families, on today's the depressed pay rates.

And that takes place, when the son wants to do the same work his father did with three children?

Didn't that American family have an implied contract, with the government and society at large?

What 'implied contract'???   Your comment reminds me of the laborers complaining to their employer about their 'implied contract' of pay scale offered by an employer in the parable in Matthew 20.  They thought it unfair that laborers hired for only an hour's work got the same amount those that were working 8 received.  At the end of the story, Jesus says:

“But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’  Matthew 20:13-15

There is no implied contract.  No one has the right to tell us what to do with our own property, because when they do - we no longer have private property rights -but what we own is simply leased to us by government who can recall it at any time of their choosing.  Or take it all in the name of fairness and equality.

[txradioguy]

Didn't that American family have an implied contract, with the government and society at large?

Society yes...the government NO!!!

That's the language of Progressive Democrat. 

[bilo]

What 'implied contract'???   Your comment reminds me of the laborers complaining to their employer about their 'implied contract' of pay scale offered by an employer in the parable in Matthew 20.  They thought it unfair that laborers hired for only an hour's work got the same amount those that were working 8 received.  At the end of the story, Jesus says:

“But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’  Matthew 20:13-15

There is no implied contract.  No one has the right to tell us what to do with our own property, because when they do - we no longer have private property rights -but what we own is simply leased to us by government who can recall it at any time of their choosing.  Or take it all in the name of fairness and equality.

Wow, beautifully said!

 

[roamer_1]

Minimum wage is especially nasty in how it causes the opposite of what is intended. As wages go up I am less inclined to give a young person a chance. It just costs too much. So what happens to the young person who not only wants to make some money, but more importantly needs to learn what it is to have a job and what is required of him. The answer is he doesn't get a job.

This is a very important aspect: As a contractor in construction, quite often the new hire would cost me money for months. And that's the ones who 'know what they're doing'... Get that right - I was losing more than I paid him. I would always loathe hiring a new guy just for the mess I know he's going to make, especially someone green. Why lower my incentive further by making me pay more?

And lets not forget that  the wage isn't all of it - By the time you're done, whatever you pay in wage is about double in actual cost paid out... That means that ten dollar an hour guy has to break past twenty dollars an hour in real production to just break even. 

As a painting contractor, average shop rate was $35/man hr... and I was really lucky to make five to seven bucks an hour in profit per employee, if that. The cost of labor is ridiculous.