Author Topic: The Nuclear Option: Ted Cruz Loves Himself More Than Our Country (Read 8961 times)

Jazzhead · « **Reply #50 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:10:02 pm »

Quote from: Mechanicos on July 22, 2016, 12:57:11 pm

The fact is the "nevers" are going away. There is nothing to fight for anymore. It maybe be weeks or even months but there is no rational reason remaining to try to sabotage Trump anymore unless they are really working for the democrats.

Plenty of rational reasons to still oppose Trump. Most importantly, to send the message that America rejects fascism. But also to lay the groundwork for re-claiming the GOP. Trumpism is going to be repudiated this fall, and those who supported him exposed as shills, cynics or fools. Cruz and Kasich have put their asses on the line for liberty and the Constitution. I, in my small way as a patriotic ordinary American, will proudly do the same.

I will not be a good German.

TomSea · « **Reply #51 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:10:27 pm »

Quote from: Crazieman on July 22, 2016, 01:06:23 pm

It is not Cruz. It is simply conscience. Conservatism practiced accurately, is conscience.

Cruz simply reiterated it.

The yelping and mewling only come from the ones that feel the pain of disobedience to their own, oft stated values.

And all of this is philosophical thought,

This is why I prefer Governors as candidates, like Perry, Walker, Pence, they are men in action.

All of this other talk is more down Washington DC Senator's alleys, sit around in committee rooms, and make statements.

Words are good, the Constitution needs to be followed but the practical use is limited.

Crazieman · « **Reply #52 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:14:04 pm »

Quote from: TomSea on July 22, 2016, 01:10:27 pm

Words are good, the Constitution needs to be followed but the practical use is limited.

Everyone with a classical education will immediately latch on to this and facepalm or shake their head.

TomSea · « **Reply #53 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:14:18 pm »

Quote from: Jazzhead on July 22, 2016, 01:10:02 pm

Plenty of rational reasons to still oppose Trump. Most importantly, to send the message that America rejects fascism. But also to lay the groundwork for re-claiming the GOP. Trumpism is going to be repudiated this fall, and those who supported him exposed as shills, cynics or fools. Cruz and Kasich have put their asses on the line for liberty and the Constitution. I, in my small way as a patriotic ordinary American, will proudly do the same.

I will not be a good German.

Trumpism will be repudiated this fall just like Romneyism. Similar situation.

I admire a Rubio who is being loyal to the party.

Calling people fascists is just calling them bad words, no proof, not an iota, if you have crazy followers, you have them in all camps. If Trump didn't win the nomination and Cruz did, he would get the same kind of followers, anyone with secured borders will have some of those.

This also says people like Pence, Palin, Buchanan, Huckabee, the many supporting Trump do not know better.

TomSea · « **Reply #54 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:14:59 pm »

Quote from: Crazieman on July 22, 2016, 01:14:04 pm

Everyone with a classical education will immediately latch on to this and facepalm or shake their head.

Thanks for the one-liner. That explains a lot.

Crazieman · « **Reply #55 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:15:06 pm »

Quote from: LilLamb on July 22, 2016, 01:12:48 pm

The very first line is a lie. Trump said in a tweet that he vetted the speech. Why should anyone read any further?

Nice catch, LilLamb!

Mod2 · « **Reply #56 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:18:37 pm »

Is everyone following the venerable internet suggestion of counting to ten (or 20 or....) before hitting "Post"?

Let's try that.

LMAO · « **Reply #57 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:19:17 pm »

Quote from: LMAO on July 22, 2016, 12:39:18 pm

Anywere, beyond the primary season, were he has fought the establishment regardless of success or failure in doing such. Great deals with Schumer and Pelosi and liking the ObamaCare mandate is hardly anti establishment.

Yet, still no answer

Bigun · « **Reply #58 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:21:12 pm »

skeeter · « **Reply #59 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:25:35 pm »

Quote from: Mechanicos on July 22, 2016, 11:49:13 am

Mine is fine, I support the American.

Funny, likely coming from an offshore contractor working for the Trump campaign.

SirLinksALot · « **Reply #60 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:26:05 pm »

Quote from: Mechanicos on July 22, 2016, 12:50:12 pm

Several facts you got wrong.
1 it was way more then NY, it was Texas booing him too as well as all the others.

Let's say you are right, that still does not answer my question --- if Trump meets the criteria Cruz outlined, why should it not be considered an indirect endorsement of Trump?
Why the boo?

Quote

2. The time for petty vindictive vetting is over. There is no end game possible where it matters other then to help Hilary.

Cruz was NOT being vindictive by appearing on stage, congratulating Trump and not saying anything bad about him. I see the speech as an exhortation to everyone ( Trump inclued ) not to forget conservative principles.

If (God forbid) Trump loses to Hillary, it will not be because of Cruz, it will be because of Trump himself.

Quote

3. Your saw what you wanted to see. People versed in Lawyer/politician games saw a self centered politician trying to set himself up to run for president in 2020 and trying to sabotage the nominee. He went way beyond his 7 min speech. Several People there tweeted he was off his speech. He was campaigning again and then tried to stick a knife in with a dog-whistle to people like you. Deny it all you want. The fact even his own delegates there saw it should wake you up.

Nope, what I saw is correct and these so called "well-versed" people are wrong.

The facts are:

1) Cruz's speech was submitted long before he appeared
2) Trump and the RNC approved and cleared the speech
3) Cruz graciously congratulated Trump
4) Cruz spoke about conservative principles
5) Cruz exhorted the Republicans to vote for these principles.

IF Trump truly met those Principles, the right response should be to say to yourself (if you are a Trump supporter ) "Yes, that's Donald Trump he is talking about."

That they booed him instead tells me what a large number of Republicans have become.

That the crowd would later applaud Paypal Co-funder Peter Thiel, who openly declared that he was gay ( why the heck do you have to tell the world what your bedroom preferences are? ) and whose company abandoned plans to open a facility in North Carolina because the governor signed a reasonable Transgender bathroom law, tells me EVEN MORE what the Republican Party has become. The boo's simply cemented my suspicion.

Crazieman · « **Reply #61 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:26:20 pm »

Quote from: Mod2 on July 22, 2016, 01:18:37 pm

Is everyone following the venerable internet suggestion of counting to ten (or 20 or....) before hitting "Post"?

Let's try that.

Directed at who? This has been one of the more cordial threads.

I've already been cursed at by an admin, I've already given this place a second chance.

Night Hides Not · « **Reply #62 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:26:34 pm »

Quote from: Jazzhead on July 22, 2016, 01:10:02 pm

Plenty of rational reasons to still oppose Trump. Most importantly, to send the message that America rejects fascism. But also to lay the groundwork for re-claiming the GOP. Trumpism is going to be repudiated this fall, and those who supported him exposed as shills, cynics or fools. Cruz and Kasich have put their asses on the line for liberty and the Constitution. I, in my small way as a patriotic ordinary American, will proudly do the same.

I will not be a good German.

On my morning drive to work, I was listening to Mark Davis on AM 660, The (Wrong) Answer.

His stance has been for weeks that it's all about beating Hillary. Ok, I can understand that, but when that's your main premise for supporting Trump, I'm not convinced.

While trying to hedge his position with his audience that remains firmly with Cruz, Mark unwittingly gave Hillary the most cogent and simple reason for keeping Trump out of the White House. Mark's own words: Trump has a 9 YO boy trapped inside of him.

Do we really want a 9YO boy so close to the nuclear football?

TomSea · « **Reply #63 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:27:16 pm »

TomSea · « **Reply #64 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:29:43 pm »

Quote from: Crazieman on July 22, 2016, 01:26:20 pm

Directed at who? This has been one of the more cordial threads.

I've already been cursed at by an admin, I've already given this place a second chance.

Okay, well, if we are telling our stories, I have come under numerous personal attacks just for being loyal to the party and not even being a strict Trump backer, so touche.

"Everyone with a classical education will immediately latch on to this and facepalm or shake their head."

This statement is just a put down as well.

Debate with maybe 25% of the anti-Trumpsters is an invitation to insult.

So, again, it be me or whomever, let's not ride on our high horses.

libertybele · « **Reply #65 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:35:01 pm »

Quote from: Jazzhead on July 22, 2016, 01:10:02 pm

Plenty of rational reasons to still oppose Trump. Most importantly, to send the message that America rejects fascism. But also to lay the groundwork for re-claiming the GOP. Trumpism is going to be repudiated this fall, and those who supported him exposed as shills, cynics or fools. Cruz and Kasich have put their asses on the line for liberty and the Constitution. I, in my small way as a patriotic ordinary American, will proudly do the same.

I will not be a good German.

Very well stated.

skeeter · « **Reply #66 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:35:09 pm »

Quote from: SirLinksALot on July 22, 2016, 01:26:05 pm

Let's say you are right, that still does not answer my question --- if Trump meets the criteria Cruz outlined, why should it not be considered an indirect endorsement of Trump?
Why the boo?

Cruz was NOT being vindictive by appearing on stage, congratulating Trump and not saying anything bad about him. I see the speech as an exhortation to everyone ( Trump inclued ) not to forget conservative principles.

If (God forbid) Trump loses to Hillary, it will not be because of Cruz, it will be because of Trump himself.

Nope, what I saw is correct and these so called "well-versed" people are wrong.

The facts are:

1) Cruz's speech was submitted long before he appeared
2) Trump and the RNC approved and cleared the speech
3) Cruz graciously congratulated Trump
4) Cruz spoke about conservative principles
5) Cruz exhorted the Republicans to vote for these principles.

IF Trump truly met those Principles, the right response should be to say to yourself (if you are a Trump supporter ) "Yes, that's Donald Trump he is talking about."

That they booed him instead tells me what a large number of Republicans have become.

That the crowd would later applaud Paypal Co-funder Peter Thiel, who openly declared that he was gay ( why the heck do you have to tell the world what your bedroom preferences are? ) and whose company abandoned plans to open a facility in North Carolina because the governor signed a reasonable Transgender bathroom law, tells me EVEN MORE what the Republican Party has become. The boo's simply cemented my suspicion.

Cruz also voluntarily removed his name from the convention ballot, where he could have raised far more of a stink and perhaps embarrassed Trump, similarly to how Trump and the GOPe attempted to embarrass him.

For me this entire campaign season has only served to highlight how few allies we have in the cause of returning this messed up nation to the Constitutional based system we once had. And its pretty demoralizing.

TomSea · « **Reply #67 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:36:49 pm »

Don't be sucked in by what is just self-centered, smug, self-righteousness a la Nelson Rockefeller. More similar to what happened in 1964.

That would be the comparison to Cruz, vs. someone being loyal to the party like Rubio.

Like the Senators who mainly have words as their accomplishments; engage in moral platitudes.

skeeter · « **Reply #68 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:39:52 pm »

Quote from: TomSea on July 22, 2016, 01:36:49 pm

Don't be sucked in by what is just self-centered, smug, self-righteousness a la Nelson Rockefeller. More similar to what happened in 1964.

Like the Senators who mainly have words as their accomplishments; engage in moral platitudes.

Please. Anyone who knows anything about Nelson Rockefeller, his politics and his place within the GOP establishment understands just how utterly ridiculous your comparing Cruz to him is.

Mechanicos · « **Reply #69 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:43:21 pm »

Quote from: Jazzhead on July 22, 2016, 01:10:02 pm

Plenty of rational reasons to still oppose Trump. Most importantly, to send the message that America rejects fascism. But also to lay the groundwork for re-claiming the GOP. Trumpism is going to be repudiated this fall, and those who supported him exposed as shills, cynics or fools. Cruz and Kasich have put their asses on the line for liberty and the Constitution. I, in my small way as a patriotic ordinary American, will proudly do the same.

I will not be a good German.

Exactly how are you rejecting fascism by helping the democrats defeat the GOP ticket? And what alternate reality are you living in that you think we can reclaim anything after 4 more years of Obama and liberal as hell Supreme Court with open borders and Islamic terrorists in the millions inside our borders?

Here's a fact for ya, Trump supporters voted for Liberty and the Constitution. So did the Delegates at the Convention. What angers us is people like you claiming we did not vote our conscious for the Constitution and for Liberty in voting for Trump. The fact is its your side with the 100% record of being wrong so far yet you still push the lies about Trump and insult the Americans who have supported Trump.

GrouchoTex · « **Reply #70 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:47:03 pm »

This whole thing is beginning to piss me off.

It is as if I've gone on the family vacation and the 2 little boys, named Trump and Cruz, are in the back seat, and they start picking on one another.

I have to pull the car over and say,"Don't make me come back there!"

Inevitably, the will point to one another and say "He started it", and I will have to say, "you'd better knock it off, or I'm going to finish it".

If they don't, they both will get the outcome nobody wants, an HRC presidency.

Brietbart ain't helping.

TomSea · « **Reply #71 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:49:37 pm »

Quote from: skeeter on July 22, 2016, 01:39:52 pm

Please. Anyone who knows anything about Nelson Rockefeller, his politics and his place within the GOP establishment understands just how utterly ridiculous your comparing Cruz to him is.

Well, when people are comparing whether Reagan endorsed Ford, I did not see everyone raising their voices and saying "you can't compare Reagan to Cruz", comparisons happen.

COMPARISON IS 1964 to 2016 as some compared 2016 to 1976, "Did Reagan endorse Ford", so are we saying this is a comparison of Reagan to Cruz? I'll make sure I raise an objection everytime that is done.

This just quells the conversation and I'm sorry, comparisons happen, Trump vs. Hillary, Trump to Cruz, when people compare Trump to Cruz, where is the chorus saying "You can't compare Trump to Cruz", this is silliness and a cheap response.

Crazieman · « **Reply #72 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:50:34 pm »

Quote from: TomSea on July 22, 2016, 01:29:43 pm

Okay, well, if we are telling our stories, I have come under numerous personal attacks just for being loyal to the party and not even being a strict Trump backer, so touche.

Arguments with individuals that have no power equals threats and swearing from administration.

Once again proving Trumpists have no grasp of reality.

TomSea · « **Reply #73 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:52:05 pm »

Quote from: skeeter on July 22, 2016, 01:39:52 pm

Please. Anyone who knows anything about Nelson Rockefeller, his politics and his place within the GOP establishment understands just how utterly ridiculous your comparing Cruz to him is.

This is aggravating, I'm sorry, I don't see everytime someone said "Did Reagan endorse Ford in 1976" as saying "How dare you compare Cruz to Reagan".

It's a way to get out of a conversation. I'm saying this twice but it truly is contemptible to have to continuously address this.

don-o · « **Reply #74 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:52:58 pm »

Quote from: Crazieman on July 22, 2016, 01:26:20 pm

Directed at who? This has been one of the more cordial threads.

I've already been cursed at by an admin, I've already given this place a second chance.

Yeah. I hear that. There was a very unfortunate, no, shameful (THERE! I SAID IT!) episode and that toothpaste cannot be put back in the tube. My take is that was the polar opposite of the culture that is supposed to define this place.

istm that things have settled down and hopefully that was a one off. I sure hope so. Because I will not be returning to FR and I do feel I have a home here.

Peace out.