Author Topic: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday  (Read 4870 times)

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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2016, 10:59:30 pm »
None of the links are reliable either.

The conservatives on here can use their own brains, examine the evidence offered and make up their own minds.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2016, 11:09:07 pm »
The conservatives on here can use their own brains, examine the evidence offered and make up their own minds.

This article has already been posted and dismissed.  NO OTHER SOURCE, including local Minnesota media sources, are validating this nonsense.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2016, 11:10:43 pm »
This article has already been posted and dismissed.  NO OTHER SOURCE, including local Minnesota media sources, are validating this nonsense.
My point stands.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline skeeter

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2016, 11:11:26 pm »
Well, yes.... but why do these "two homicides-by-cop that, on the surface, [look] really bad for law enforcement?"

It's certainly not that the facts are known, and yet the memes and marchers are already out there.  No, they "look bad" primarily because, in our social media world, somebody with intent to do so developed the meme, facts or no facts, to advance their own agenda.  We have a president and media who are spring-loaded to condemn racist cops without benefit of information or investigation.

This is not what you're portraying it to be.

You are correct. Without the politicians and the politically motivated having to continually gin up outrage this would receive no more attention than any other police related shooting involving any other ethnicity or combination of ethnicities.

Fact is the political class need outrage out there to guarantee a good turnout in the next election. So look for this to happen another two or three times between now and November.

Offline Half Vast Conspiracy

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2016, 11:49:50 pm »
Source has links get to surfing
@Mechanicos

Link to gotnews.com?  No thanks.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2016, 12:34:55 am »
@Mechanicos

Link to gotnews.com?  No thanks.
Wear your blinders proudly.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Suppressed

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2016, 01:15:46 am »
Wear your blinders proudly.

This comes from the guy who rejects reams of evidence and reasoning based on sources that are far more reputable.
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HonestJohn

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2016, 01:17:00 am »
Is there a reliable source for the info or just pseudoconservativenuthouse.com?

The site is worse than WND... which says a lot.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2016, 01:27:07 am »
Article seems to check out IMO. This will all come out though. He isn't the angel he is portrayed as being and he was a member of a Crips facebook group.

Not enough to deserve to get shot. But as usual the media isn't giving you the full story on it.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2016, 01:32:44 am »
The first fact that common sense tells you is her story they were pulled over for a taillight out was false because it was daylight in the video.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2016, 01:38:39 am »
Article seems to check out IMO. This will all come out though. He isn't the angel he is portrayed as being and he was a member of a Crips facebook group.

Not enough to deserve to get shot. But as usual the media isn't giving you the full story on it.

Really?  Where's the corroboration?

The media is not giving the full story, but we can count on a nutburger site like getnews? 

What's gotten into you?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2016, 01:43:02 am »
Really?  Where's the corroboration?

The media is not giving the full story, but we can count on a nutburger site like getnews? 

What's gotten into you?

There are screenshots here of him being a member of the crips facebook group:

http://gotnews.com/breaking-philandocastile-falconheightsshooting-crips-gangmember/

Be skeptical of everything. MSM, and WND/CTH. Get the facts and make up your own mind.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2016, 08:05:08 pm »
>snip<
Maybe the Trumpsters are right about the NeverTrumps: nothing more than a bunch of pseudointellectual phonies.
Well, that didn't take long. Put your poo bucket away for a thread, willya?
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2016, 02:11:53 am »
Quote
Now imagine, for a minute, that your parents instead grew up as black people in the 50s or 60s in one of the many areas where police were often the agents of - let's call it what it was - white oppression. How might that have changed, for understandable reasons, the way not only those people but also their children and their children's children interact with the police? More importantly, how might it impact the belief that police will ever be held accountable for abuses of their power?

I grew up in an area far from here, a former slave state, one where the population was roughly split between white and black, in a rural area, in the 50s and 60s.
Let me start by saying if your parents grew up there, then, you are a grandfather or grandmother yourself, and possibly a great grandparent.

I guess "white oppression" means whatever one says it means. If it was in many areas, that means it wasn't regionally endemic, or it would have been in just one large area. Yes, there were parts of the overall area where blacks seldom went, but similarly, there were places where whites seldom went, too.
There were parallel communities, there were white bars, black bars, and even some smaller establishments which had a 'side' for whites and a 'side' for "colored folks" to drink and socialize in. Either group would say simply that that arrangement eliminated a lot of unnecessary friction. In those days, blacks worked hard, lived as respectably as anyone else in relatively ordinary families (mom, dad, kids), and saw getting an education or learning a trade as the ticket from poverty to prosperity.
There was mutual respect between blacks and whites for the most part, and not the stereotypical 'white man holding the black man down' nonsense that became popularized by the first wave or riot inciting agitators later. The person you hired to do a job was often the best you could get, and many of those were black. No resentment, their work spoke for itself.

Long after the schools were forcefully integrated in the '60s, there was little change in the makeup in the crowds in the traditionally 'black' nightclubs, or in the traditionally 'white' nightclubs.  Simply enough, where there was, it wasn't what you see on television with the socially compulsive formulaic 'diversity' of a mixed and happy crowd, although people generally would get along, it was just that people preferred to hang out with those more like themselves. Maybe there just were not enough liberals, or perhaps it was because those were the days when it was readily acknowledged that there were separate and parallel cultures. 

No one begrudged anyone honest success, and black owners of black businesses showed up for church on Sunday and at the local, broad based, community functions like fire department parades and the Annual Blessing of the Fleet wearing suits every bit as nice as (or nicer than)  any white business leader, driving (or being driven in) a spotless Cadillac or Lincoln, and treated with the same deference and respect as anyone who was a pillar of their respective community. (One Black businessman I knew had a statue of a white jockey holding a lamp in his well manicured yard, to the great amusement of the local population.)

Did the police act as an arm of "white oppression"?  Well, not that I could see. White police, and for that matter white firemen and EMS, routinely put themselves in harm's way, regardless of the color of the victims of whatever misfortune befell members of the community, as did black police. Fire Departments were volunteer, very well trained through the State University, and by the '70s became integrated as blacks joined up. Those who did were welcome and became as much brothers in adversity as any of their more fair skinned compatriots. The ambulance wasn't driven more slowly because the patient was black, nor was anyone in more of a hurry to enter or extinguish a burning structure because the children therein were white. All were seen as 'people', period.

As far as the police went, they had a different situation in that they commonly responded to calls regarding someone committing a crime. If their take on who was more likely to commit a crime was colored by the basic description of the perpetrators, well, that was likely a function of who was committing crimes, not of any racial bias. Keep in mind that police were generally called to respond to a crime, not out looking for someone to shake down. As for suspicion, well, police are taught to look for things that seem abnormal. That's part of the job (assuming "normal" falls within the boundaries of the legal constraints we, as a society, have sought for all to go by). So anyone, anything, which looks out of place, unusual, abnormal is cause for immediate suspicion. Anomalies often herald behaviour outside the lines we have drawn for civility.

The Cadillac with out of state plates in the poorest part of an area may well draw police attention. Is it someone's grandson who went off to college, got a law degree and a job in the City and came back to visit? Is the car stolen? Is it someone bringing in a shipment of the latest poison to be distributed on the street? "The Man" is going to check that out, just as he would check out the lowrider in a neighborhood full of Anglos, or the beater car parked at the edge of a gated community. Does that imply that the police are 'down on' anyone in particular, outside of their normal (and dutiful) suspicion of, well anyone or thing which doesn't appear to be 'normal'?

I guess that would be a question of viewpoint, whether the 'checking out' happened in your front yard, on your street, or not. If there seems to be a lot of that, then it could be that your neighborhood has its endemic problems, and if you are the victim of being checked (without having done anything wrong), that may lead to resentment instead of the concept that the police may be spending a disproportionate amount of manpower and other resources trying to keep your streets less hazardous.

It would seem to me that more of a presence in an area with more crime would be welcome by those seeking the elimination of crime.

There will be those who will rebut that concept with the notion that crime becomes a statistical problem, one which is only found to be more present in the areas considered 'high crime areas' because of 'excessive policing', which means more people are arrested there because there is a heightened police presence, and not because there is any more crime there than elsewhere, which is used to claim some sort of racial bias. But would that hold muster, statistically? Certainly there are white neighborhoods which are very well patrolled--usually wealthy ones, and perhaps better patrolled by LEOs than poorer or ethnically concentrated neighborhoods. It would be hard to mask shootings, assaults, and violent crimes, for instance, in those neighborhoods, just as it is to mask those events in poor neighborhoods. EMS responses and laws governing ER doctors reporting knife wounds, for instance, apply just as much to white folks as black or 'brown', urban or rural. I know, but that's another story: let's just say the roast beef won. So, with reporting requirements on wounds and injuries placed on the medical community, those statistics would bear out that the higher crime areas are, in fact, higher crime areas. Given that the amount of police presence is proportional to the crimes and not the other way around.

When there are more police in an area, being suspicious, looking for criminal action, there will be (numerically) more gestures, actions, or movements on the part of the more numerous persons investigated which are misinterpreted. That misinterpretation can have a bad outcome. You'd think the word would be around by now that a sudden grab for a cell phone in the front of the pants might be misinterpreted as reaching for a weapon, or that jumping a fence and hauling ass might be interpreted as having a reason to run from police. In those situations, the opportunities for "innocent" people to get hurt abound. If someone isn't breaking the law, and they have no warrants out on them, nor things which may be interpreted as illegal (a crack or meth pipe for instance), despite the inconvenience and aggravation of being checked out, why run (in many jurisdictions considered a 'crime' all by itself)?

Now, correctional facilities are full of people who are innocent (just ask them). I guess you could say that if the police were not there, they wouldn't have been arrested and would not be 'criminals',  but that raises the question of whether a 'crime' is just a statistical data point, or a real action against the person or property of another, not to mention the peace and dignity of the State. Solved or not, those crimes occur. Whether anyone is arrested or tried or not, someone got hurt, stuff is still missing, someone is stoned or OD'd somewhere. There are reasons for the rules the police enforce. If we don't want to live within those rules (and one should very carefully consider altering or eliminating them) then change the rules. But to decry those present and doing the job of protecting the public against itself in the highest crime areas as creating the problem by arresting more people for criminal behaviour, won't make the crimes go away. It won't replace grandma's social security check, put the wheels back on someone's car, or draw the meth back out of someone's veins.

If the police are having more interactions with people in an area, the simple fact is that given X number of misunderstandings per 10,000 interactions, areas with more interactions are going to have more misunderstandings, not as a rate, but as a simple number. Even a good cop can get it wrong.

But setting up police to shepherd a peaceful protest and then taking as many as possible out with a pair of snipers while the protesters walk calmly down the street, targeting officers on a basis of race is no way to build harmony between police and the community they serve.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis