Author Topic: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday  (Read 4871 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/07/08/uncomfortable-reason-came-dallas-yesterday/

The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday


Posted at 9:28 am on July 8, 2016 by Leon H. Wolf


 
Let me say this right off the bat: I don't at all condone any shooting police officers or attacking them in any way. I hope that the people responsible are caught and punished to the fullest extent of the law - which, given that the attacks appear to have been premeditated and directed at law enforcement, means the death penalty. I assume, given that these idiots chose to perpetrate their crime in Texas, that this is exactly what will happen.

Fine. Good, even.

Now let's take a step back and look at the forces that would drive someone to do something like this yesterday. Here's the reality that we don't often talk about - that societies are held together less by laws and force and threats of force than we are by ethereal and fragile concepts like mutual respect and belief in the justness of the system itself.

 
In America, there are 376 police officers per 100,000 citizens - or one police officer per every 266 citizens. Stop and think about that. Could every police officer in America maintain order over 266 unruly people who had no respect for him him or the badge he wields? Absolutely not. The only thing that makes the situation even a little bit tenable is that the vast majority of people never think about confronting or challenging a police officer, and instead get up each day with the commitment to live their lives peacefully and lawfully, because they believe a) that they live in a society that is basically just and b) they believe that the few policemen who do exist will be there to protect them if something goes wrong and c) they have faith, by and large, that if someone commits a crime against them, they will be caught and punished.

Think, though, about what happens when these invisible bonds that are the most important part of maintaining law and order begin to dissolve - especially within a given subcommunity. Perception is, quite often, more important than reality. We are, in addition, creatures of our upbringing. The way our parents raise us to think about people and institutions shapes us to degrees that we often can't or won't acknowledge.

As the child of white parents who grew up in the rural panhandle of Texas, I was taught that police were there to help, any time I had a problem I should go to them. I should always follow their orders and show them the utmost respect. No one is more important and helpful to your community than the police.

Now imagine, for a minute, that your parents instead grew up as black people in the 50s or 60s in one of the many areas where police were often the agents of - let's call it what it was - white oppression. How might that have changed, for understandable reasons, the way not only those people but also their children and their children's children interact with the police? More importantly, how might it impact the belief that police will ever be held accountable for abuses of their power?

I think the evidence would show that the vast majority of police do their jobs with the greatest professionalism possible. I don't think that's a sufficient answer to the reality of lingering mistrust between police and minority communities, especially in certain areas of the country. And the proliferation of cell phone video recording has really confirmed (in their minds) something they have long anecdotally believed or been taught - that police often interact with minority communities in different ways than they do with the white community.

And here's the most important part: when they do so, they never or almost never face punishment.

Look, I don't know. I don't want to rush to judgment on either the Baton Rouge shooting or the Falcon Heights shooting, but based upon what we have seen, they look bad. Very bad. They look, at least at first glance, to confirm a lot of biases that people have. They look like a scenario that has played out all too often that the white community either doesn't believe ever happens (or at least believes is at most a freak occurrence) and minority communities believe is a systemic occurrence. And they look, most importantly, like many other scenarios in which officers have skated either scot free or with a slap on their wrist.

And here is the important point and the point I have been trying to make with this excessively wordy post. The most important safety valve to prevent violence like we saw in Dallas last night is the belief that when officers do go off the rails, the legal system will punish them accordingly. If minority communities (and everyone else, for that matter) believed that, resort to reprisal killings would be either non existent or far less frequent.

But they don't, and there's good reason for that. And that is because a huge, overwhelming segment of America does not really give a damn what cops do in the course of maintaining order because they assume (probably correctly) that abuse at the hands of police will never happen to them. As long as the cops keep people away from my door, they have my blessing handling "the thugs" in whatever way they see fit.

I see the attitude all the time even in the comments to the stories I write here at RedState. I'll post about some story or video where someone did something to break the law and thus found themselves in contact with the police. Fine. During the course of interaction with the police, however, the police drastically escalate the confrontation using what I think any reasonable person should consider to be wildly excessive force in bringing the situation to heel, and someone ends up either seriously injured or dead. Very often, the victim of this escalation is black.

Every time I post these stories, I get a flood of comments from people who look for even the smallest hook on which to hang an excuse for the cops. "Well, he was rude and confrontational to the cop." "Well, when the officer was trying to arrest him, he ran." "He was 'resisting arrest.'" (My personal favorite, which was used by several dozen people I talked to regarding Eric Garner, whose "resisting arrest" consisted entirely of turning his back to a cop and putting his hands in the air.)

Look, this is not how a free society works. Being rude/disrespectful to a cop, running from a cop, demanding in a hostile tone to know why a cop has pulled you over might well be contraindicated to the peaceful continuation of your day, but they are not an excuse for someone getting shot. I'm for the death penalty, but the kind that is carried out after, you know, a trial and some appeals - not the kind that is carried out on the spot by a cop who's had his authority challenged in some non life-threatening way.

These excuses, though, are indicative of an abdication of critical thinking about the legal and proper application of police force that really and truly is endemic in America. Prosecutors are often guilty of it when deciding whether to indict officers for excessive force. More often, they know that jury members will be extremely guilty of it if they decide to bring charges at all, which makes the whole exercise not worth their time.

Here's all you need to know: since 2000, NYPD officers have shot and killed about 180 people. Only 3 of those officers was even indicted for anything and only 1 was convicted, for a non-jail time offense. And these statistics are fairly typical of the nation at large.

Reasonable people can disagree about the prevalence of police brutality in America, and the extent to which race plays a factor in it. I don't think reasonable people can disagree that excessive police force is punished way less often than it actually happens. And that's the kind of problem that leads to people taking up guns and committing acts of violence - tragically (and with evil intent) against cops who as far as we know have done nothing wrong.

But people's willingness to act rationally and within the confines of the law and the political system is generally speaking directly proportional to their belief that the law and political system will ever punish wrongdoing. And right now, that belief is largely broken, especially in many minority communities.

And it's the blind, uncritical belief that the police never (or only in freak circumstances) do anything wrong that is a major contributing factor to that.

It's at least as much of a factor, if not more so, than the blind, uncritical belief that the police always do things wrong - which many conservatives today are blaming in entirety for what happened in Dallas.

The truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle, but acknowledging that requires looking in the mirror in a way that makes us all a little uncomfortable.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2016, 02:38:26 pm »
I have two nephews who have been in law enforcement for 15 years each.  They have pulled their weapons twice each while on duty and never fired them.  And they work in a large metropolitan force.  Neither understands why cops are so trigger-happy.

Something is wrong with they way police officers are trained (witness the rash of dog shootings that take place on a regular basis) or departments are hiring ticking time bombs who can't wait to get behind a badge so they can use a gun.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Just_Victor

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 02:44:04 pm »
Good essay.  Thanks for posting.
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Offline kjam22

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2016, 03:12:56 pm »
I'm troubled that anyone in our country can get pulled over for a busted taillight and ultimately killed. I'm recalling similar police harassment when I was 18 and driving a muscle car around. (Thank goodness I wasn't shot and my harassment was limited to (financial damage)  But, I'm equally troubled that large parts of our cities have been turned over to crime, criminals, gangs, thugs, skinheads, or whomever you want to name that on a daily basis operate outside of the laws and turn areas into "no go zones" and are idolized by segments of our society via music and social media etc

I guess I land somewhere saying in a perfect world a delta force would do whatever is necessary to restore law and order. And then those cops who aren't fit to be cops could be dealt with in the same manner.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 03:14:19 pm by kjam22 »
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2016, 03:24:05 pm »
Idiotic ridiculous post. This is redstate? Moronic.

WIth less cops we'd have more scared cops, and a scared cop is a dangerous cop. More incidents.

Maybe the Trumpsters are right about the NeverTrumps: nothing more than a bunch of pseudointellectual phonies.

Offline r9etb

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2016, 03:25:26 pm »
The problem I have with this "excessively wordy post," is that it places the blame on cops, and on peoples' perception of cops.  It does not account for the environments within which cops have to work, nor does it account for the increasing agitation against cops by media navel-gazers and politicians all the way up to the White House.

Yes, we can acknowledge that a cultural/racial distrust of cops has some basis in history.  But in so doing, we must also acknowledge that the crime rate within "black culture" is astronomically higher, and that the manner of interaction between police and blacks in high-crime areas is necessarily affected by that fact.

Everybody wants this to be an easy problem -- racists here, criminals there, and so on.  But it's not easy, despite what essays like this would have us believe.

Offline kjam22

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2016, 03:35:37 pm »
The problem I have with this "excessively wordy post," is that it places the blame on cops, and on peoples' perception of cops.  It does not account for the environments within which cops have to work, nor does it account for the increasing agitation against cops by media navel-gazers and politicians all the way up to the White House.

Yes, we can acknowledge that a cultural/racial distrust of cops has some basis in history.  But in so doing, we must also acknowledge that the crime rate within "black culture" is astronomically higher, and that the manner of interaction between police and blacks in high-crime areas is necessarily affected by that fact.

Everybody wants this to be an easy problem -- racists here, criminals there, and so on.  But it's not easy, despite what essays like this would have us believe.

Correct, it is not an easy fix.  It involves getting rid of millions of people who belong to or sympathize with what are essentially criminal organizations.   And most of those are under the age of 30 with many being kids.  It involves removing their citizenship and exporting them somewhere or just killing, because we certainly can't build enough prisons to incarcerate for life all of them.  We both know this country is not going to "crack down" on these "no go" areas of our cities or the people who sympathize and even support and encourage them.     Any fix has to start there and end with similar treatment for cops who commit murder.
America needs God's forgiveness....... Even if Donald Trump doesn't think he does.

Offline Half Vast Conspiracy

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2016, 03:35:52 pm »
http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/07/08/uncomfortable-reason-came-dallas-yesterday/

But people's willingness to act rationally and within the confines of the law and the political system is generally speaking directly proportional to their belief that the law and political system will ever punish wrongdoing. And right now, that belief is largely broken, especially in many minority communities.


I don't think it's unique to minority communities.  Anyone watching the Hillary Clinton debacle should feel it.


Online massadvj

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2016, 03:43:00 pm »
Look, this is not how a free society works. Being rude/disrespectful to a cop, running from a cop, demanding in a hostile tone to know why a cop has pulled you over might well be contraindicated to the peaceful continuation of your day, but they are not an excuse for someone getting shot...

Good in theory, bad in practice.  Once it becomes the norm in a society for people to be hostile to police, the police become powerless and the society devolves into lawlessness.  Look at Baltimore right now.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2016, 03:43:48 pm »
Idiotic ridiculous post. This is redstate? Moronic.

WIth less cops we'd have more scared cops, and a scared cop is a dangerous cop. More incidents.

Maybe the Trumpsters are right about the NeverTrumps: nothing more than a bunch of pseudointellectual phonies.

It's not the number of cops, it's the kind of human being we're recruiting. 

A cop who walks up on a traffic stop with his hand on his gun is sending a message, and it's not a good one.  We know you can use that thing, officer.  Don't be confrontational without a need to be.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2016, 03:44:26 pm »
BLM = KKK

Both racist terrorist organizations.
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Offline RedHead

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2016, 03:45:35 pm »
Sorry but to imply that the murder of those police officers yesterday was in any way justified by Black Lives Matter or the number of police officers or the incompetence of some of them is just flat out wrong.  The fact that all too many people are killed by police for little or no reason is entirely separate and needs to be viewed and handled as such.  None of the officers yesterday did anything to justify what happened.  They were doing their job, helping average citizens express their constitutional right of free speech.  And when the shots rang out by all accounts some of those officers died in the act of protecting the protesters from the gunfire. 

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2016, 03:46:22 pm »
Look, this is not how a free society works. Being rude/disrespectful to a cop, running from a cop, demanding in a hostile tone to know why a cop has pulled you over might well be contraindicated to the peaceful continuation of your day, but they are not an excuse for someone getting shot...

Good in theory, bad in practice.  Once it becomes the norm in a society for people to be hostile to police, the police become powerless and the society devolves into lawlessness.  Look at Baltimore right now.

People aren't hostile to police as a matter of course, unless given a reason to be.  A stop for a busted tail light should NEVER turn into a homicide.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2016, 03:47:45 pm »
It's not the number of cops, it's the kind of human being we're recruiting. 

A cop who walks up on a traffic stop with his hand on his gun is sending a message, and it's not a good one.  We know you can use that thing, officer.  Don't be confrontational without a need to be.

Easy to write behind your own cushy keyboard. Every traffic stop a cop makes could be his last. That's simply a fact and is increasingly more so.

Of course, not every action is justified by a cop and they are human beings with bad apples in the bunch.

The resolution for these cases is in a court of law. Not with a sniper rifle.

I will not accept any excuse for what happened yesterday.

Offline r9etb

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2016, 03:48:13 pm »
Correct, it is not an easy fix.  It involves getting rid of millions of people who belong to or sympathize with what are essentially criminal organizations.   And most of those are under the age of 30 with many being kids.  It involves removing their citizenship and exporting them somewhere or just killing, because we certainly can't build enough prisons to incarcerate for life all of them.  We both know this country is not going to "crack down" on these "no go" areas of our cities or the people who sympathize and even support and encourage them.     Any fix has to start there and end with similar treatment for cops who commit murder.

But even that's a symptom, I think, and you're really just suggesting ways of treating the symptom.  Crimes must certainly be punished, no matter who commits them.

But in the long term, we'd still have to deal with the source of the issue, which I think has its roots in the breakdown of the family among various demographic groups.  In that sense it's not a racial thing at all, even if the highest concentration currently happens to be among inner-city blacks.  (There are a lot of data that speak to this: the correlation is between crime and intact biological families, not crime and race.)

That's why this is a difficult problem: it reaches into areas that politicians and activists and normal people would prefer to avoid.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2016, 03:49:27 pm »
Sorry but to imply that the murder of those police officers yesterday was in any way justified by Black Lives Matter or the number of police officers or the incompetence of some of them is just flat out wrong.  The fact that all too many people are killed by police for little or no reason is entirely separate and needs to be viewed and handled as such.  None of the officers yesterday did anything to justify what happened.  They were doing their job, helping average citizens express their constitutional right of free speech.  And when the shots rang out by all accounts some of those officers died in the act of protecting the protesters from the gunfire.

Wolf is not implying that.   But the march itself was in response to two homicides-by-cop that, on the surface, looked really bad for law enforcement.  There is little doubt, however, that most police officers who kill are rarely prosecuted.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2016, 03:50:53 pm »
Why do people think that cops "pulling back" would be a good thing? It would create an atmosphere of lawlessness and crime, just as it was back in the 80's. This would just increase the fear of cops and we'd actually get more incidents like this, not less. A scared cop, hell a scared human being, is a dangerous human being, especially with a firearm.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2016, 03:51:31 pm »
Easy to write behind your own cushy keyboard. Every traffic stop a cop makes could be his last. That's simply a fact and is increasingly more so.

Of course, not every action is justified by a cop and they are human beings with bad apples in the bunch.

The resolution for these cases is in a court of law. Not with a sniper rifle.

I will not accept any excuse for what happened yesterday.

Nonsense.  Few cops are killed on traffic stops.  Very few.

Of course there's no justification for yesterday. But there would have been no protest had there not been two killed-by-cops.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2016, 03:53:48 pm »
Nonsense.  Few cops are killed on traffic stops.  Very few.

Of course there's no justification for yesterday. But there would have been no protest had there not been two killed-by-cops.

Oh nonsense. We are a nation of 320 million people. Eventually there would be some incident that would be racially charged and all this guy needed was an excuse.

Basic law of averages.

Offline r9etb

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2016, 03:55:46 pm »
Wolf is not implying that.   But the march itself was in response to two homicides-by-cop that, on the surface, looked really bad for law enforcement.  There is little doubt, however, that most police officers who kill are rarely prosecuted.

Well, yes.... but why do these "two homicides-by-cop that, on the surface, [look] really bad for law enforcement?"

It's certainly not that the facts are known, and yet the memes and marchers are already out there.  No, they "look bad" primarily because, in our social media world, somebody with intent to do so developed the meme, facts or no facts, to advance their own agenda.  We have a president and media who are spring-loaded to condemn racist cops without benefit of information or investigation.

This is not what you're portraying it to be.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 03:56:04 pm by r9etb »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2016, 03:58:19 pm »
Why do people think that cops "pulling back" would be a good thing? It would create an atmosphere of lawlessness and crime, just as it was back in the 80's. This would just increase the fear of cops and we'd actually get more incidents like this, not less. A scared cop, hell a scared human being, is a dangerous human being, especially with a firearm.

Because Dallas police have been doing precisely that, and effectively.

What Dallas' historically low murder rate can teach us about policing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/01/12/what-dallass-historically-low-murder-rate-can-teach-us-about-policing/
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2016, 03:59:53 pm »
Because Dallas police have been doing precisely that, and effectively.

What Dallas' historically low murder rate can teach us about policing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/01/12/what-dallass-historically-low-murder-rate-can-teach-us-about-policing/

Great, glad it works for Dallas, doesn't work for other cities.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2016, 04:02:06 pm »
Well, yes.... but why do these "two homicides-by-cop that, on the surface, [look] really bad for law enforcement?"

It's certainly not that the facts are known, and yet the memes and marchers are already out there.  No, they "look bad" primarily because, in our social media world, somebody with intent to do so developed the meme, facts or no facts, to advance their own agenda.  We have a president and media who are spring-loaded to condemn racist cops without benefit of information or investigation.

This is not what you're portraying it to be.

There's video.  And the videos, while certainly incomplete, give us an idea of what happened.  The cop's word is no longer taken as authoritative.  That's why body cameras are such a good idea.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 04:03:37 pm »
Great, glad it works for Dallas, doesn't work for other cities.

Works for Nashville, too. It works everywhere that it's tried.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Uncomfortable Reason Why It Came To This In Dallas Yesterday
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2016, 04:06:12 pm »
Works for Nashville, too. It works everywhere that it's tried.

That is not my experience here on the East Coast.