Author Topic: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton  (Read 4868 times)

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Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2016, 06:43:17 pm »
Understand?  Yes - we're basically in agreement that I don't want 95% of Democrat voters, and perhaps 80% of Republican voters making any decisions that affect my life.  Now if only the Article V convention can take place and we can return to the point where only male landholders have the right to vote.  Oh, wait, that won't happen before November 2016 - guess we're stuck with the voters we have.   **nononono*

That convention is not going to take place anytime soon, so if that's your hope of setting everything straight, you need a new hope.

And know this... Trump's continued candidacy will end in an epic disaster for not only conservatives and the GOP, but for America, when Hillary Clinton rolls up a 38-state victory.  Trump has ***NO*** chance in November.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 06:45:02 pm by ScottinVA »

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2016, 06:48:16 pm »
Cross-posting from TOS?   :chairbang:

It was a good well written post by a recovering Cruz supporter.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

geronl

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2016, 06:51:50 pm »

In your world, the GOPe under Paul Ryan are our heroes.   How nice for you.   :whistle:

In your world Susan Collins and Renee Ellmers are heroes.... how nice.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2016, 07:10:54 pm »
Actually, wait, no one has yet addressed the fact that Trump defeated the others in the primaries, which is where the fight was settled.  This is being completely ignored.

No, it was not ignored. I told you that one should not conflate Conservatives and Republicans. Conservatives are conservatives first, and if there is no profit left in the Republicans, will happily vote other than Republican, or stay home. This has been proven so very many times that I am surprised to have to say it again...

In fact, if the Republicans loft a liberal, Conservatives turn on the party and do work against it. Of course they do. Why would you ever expect a Conservative to vote for a liberal? When your candidate not only offers Conservatives *nothing*, but is exactly that which Conservatives oppose, what demands do you expect you can put upon their allegiance?

And your other problem: There are now more Conservatives outside the party than in it... What ties do you think you have on someone like me, who is not a member of your party? There's the downside of 'open primaries'.  I have no obligation to vote for your liberal candidate whatsoever.

Thus it comes down to what you have been told, over and over yet again. If you want Conservatives to vote for your candidate, just make sure your candidate is a Conservative, and then you and I will have no problems.

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Conservatives are principled people and I am a Conservative, so I won't vote, even if it means the United States is destroyed as a result.  I'll go to my grave, and perhaps watch my children and grandchildren marched into one, but I'll feel good about my decision.  And then be shot.  Bonus Pyrrhic Moral Victory Point: tell your executioners you're OK with this so you can smile smugly before they blow your brains out.  I may have succumbed to rhetorical hyperbole on this last bullet point. (Bullet point, mass grave, execution - get it?)

What an asinine assertion.
The United States IS nearly destroyed - By precisely that which YOU are supporting. 'The lesser evil' will be our demise. Purporting to fight liberalism by electing liberals from within the party of opposition to liberalism' is an absurdity of an high order.

The 'Pyrrhic Victory' is in winning by voting for that which you do not believe in, and in fact, oppose. How disingenuous to frame it otherwise.

And as to being lead out and shot: Bring it. Better now, than upon my children, when there is no defense, and there is no principled thought left to guide their generation. How feckless to kick the can down the road.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 07:15:41 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline verga

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2016, 07:13:02 pm »
What makes you think should the rules get changed and/or faithless delegates1 violate their oaths, leading to Trump NOT getting the nomination, that a Conservative will be chosen at the convention?  If Jeb is the one selected (not elected, mind you) as a result of this, would you be voting for him?

Note 1:  Use of "faithless" is not pejorative, but related to the concept of a faithless elector.  I make no comment on the rightness or wrongness of such a delegate's decision.
I only vote for Conservatives, so Jebby is out.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2016, 07:33:37 pm »
The United States IS nearly destroyed - By precisely that which YOU are supporting.
I have to chuckle at you here.  You and the rest of the #NeverTrump crowd haven't figured out that Trump's appeal is to our natural allies - the blue-collar folks who've been ignored and swept under the carpet by the Big Business and Big Racist wings of the main US political parties.  You know, those Reagan Democrats?  Trump is their last hope (right or wrong) before unrestricted immigration and ethnic set-asides permanently balkanize the US.  They live the results of unfair trade, cheap labor, and all the rest.  But, hey, they are not super conservative, so let's all stay home and wait to die.  Cause, you know, pride and stuff.

On another note, I was painting an image with the whole bullet to the head thing.  A bit of artistic license, and I apologize.  In truth, you'll never see the drone strike coming.  Which sucks, because so many on our side are really looking forward to dying gloriously rather than give in to the Socialist thugs.  Alas, the WHOOSH-BOOM and darkness doesn't fit the narrative.
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

geronl

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #81 on: June 20, 2016, 07:43:35 pm »
I only vote for Conservatives, so Jebby is out.

So many people do not understand the concept of principles it is scary.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #82 on: June 20, 2016, 08:07:52 pm »
I have to chuckle at you here.  You and the rest of the #NeverTrump crowd haven't figured out that Trump's appeal is to our natural allies [...] You know, those Reagan Democrats? 

These 'Reagan Democrats' of yours are largely a myth... They DO exist, but not where you think. By and large, the Reagan Democrats fled their party when Reagan offered them a seat at the Conservative Table. They fled over the abortion issue, and were instrumental in Reagan's victory via the Southern Strategy... We know them today as Social Conservatives, or the Christian Right... And believe me, those 'Reagan Democrats' are no friend of Trump.

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[...]so let's all stay home and wait to die.  Cause, you know, pride and stuff.

So born and raised among cowards, I'd suppose... No one I know is staying home and waiting to die.

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On another note, I was painting an image with the whole bullet to the head thing.  A bit of artistic license, and I apologize.  In truth, you'll never see the drone strike coming.  Which sucks, because so many on our side are really looking forward to dying gloriously rather than give in to the Socialist thugs.  Alas, the WHOOSH-BOOM and darkness doesn't fit the narrative.

You've really never been to the Rockies, have you? Or the swamps, or the desert canyon lands? The entire Armed forces couldn't dig a bunch of poorly armed ragheads out of the Afghan mountains. How do you think they're going to dig Americans out of the Rockies?

I ain't after war. No sane man is. But if it's gonna be war, better now than later. Me and mine will likely do just fine, dug deep into the sticks.

So if you think you're gonna scare me into voting for your socialist prig out of fear, you've got another think coming.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #83 on: June 20, 2016, 08:15:33 pm »
So many people do not understand the concept of principles it is scary.

What if your principles dictate that you act when lack of action means evil advances further/faster than it would otherwise? 

In too many cases, what folks call "principles" are an excuse to smugly sit back and claim to not be responsible for something.  It makes them feel better - just like liberals professing support for the cause de jour makes them feel better about themselves, without actually have to lift a finger.  Thus, "principle" is conflated with "intellectual (or actual) laziness." 

But by all means - please do feel good about your principles.
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2016, 08:29:21 pm »
So if you think you're gonna scare me into voting for your socialist prig out of fear, you've got another think coming.

I'm not trying to scare you.  I'm merely stating for the record that you don't have air support, don't have the benefit of a long logistics/flight time buffer, but do probably want to live in something beside a hole in the ground with a bucket to crap in.  And the progressives despise you 10,000% more than anyone currently hates the Afghans in their holes so they will have zero concern for collateral damage.  The Rules of Engagement will be Ghengis Khan/Grozny, not two hands behind the back and "hearts & minds".

WHOOSH-BOOM. 

Whether you choose to reconsider your opinion with a more fact-based assessment of the future, that's up to you.  Normalcy bias is a b1tch. 
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #85 on: June 20, 2016, 08:43:41 pm »
I'm not trying to scare you.  I'm merely stating for the record that you don't have air support, don't have the benefit of a long logistics/flight time buffer,

Don't need it.

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but do probably want to live in something beside a hole in the ground with a bucket to crap in.

*Shrugs* Been there done that. Will do it again, no problem. Knock me back to the stone age, and I'll still do just fine.

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And the progressives despise you 10,000% more [...]

Then why is it that you'd have me vote for one?

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WHOOSH-BOOM. 

meh.

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Whether you choose to reconsider your opinion with a more fact-based assessment of the future, that's up to you.  Normalcy bias is a b1tch.

LOL! Obviously, what you consider 'normal' is far from reality. You are hoping your progressive won't do exactly what the other progressives all do. Wake up.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 08:44:19 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #86 on: June 20, 2016, 09:04:12 pm »
What if your principles dictate that you act when lack of action means evil advances further/faster than it would otherwise? 

Which Conservative principle is that?

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In too many cases, what folks call "principles" are an excuse to smugly sit back and claim to not be responsible for something.  It makes them feel better - just like liberals professing support for the cause de jour makes them feel better about themselves, without actually have to lift a finger.  Thus, "principle" is conflated with "intellectual (or actual) laziness." 

Do you even know what Conservative principles are?

We believe Conservatism to be TRUE. The principles thereof are adamantine. To compromise TRUTH is a fallacy, in every single situation. You are asking us to give up true things for that which is necessarily FALSE.

How far do you think you are going to get with that?

@geronl
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 09:05:25 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline verga

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #87 on: June 20, 2016, 09:55:01 pm »
What if your principles dictate that you act when lack of action means evil advances further/faster than it would otherwise? 

In too many cases, what folks call "principles" are an excuse to smugly sit back and claim to not be responsible for something.  It makes them feel better - just like liberals professing support for the cause de jour makes them feel better about themselves, without actually have to lift a finger.  Thus, "principle" is conflated with "intellectual (or actual) laziness." 

But by all means - please do feel good about your principles.
@geronl @Liberty Tree Dr link
I don't see anyone sitting back, smugly or otherwise. It is not a two person race. There are those of us that refuse to either compromise or participate in evil. I held my nose and voted for the last repubicans foisted on us by the centrist "moderates." We were promised that this time it would be different, but all we got was more of the same. If you have not done so already do yourself a big favor and read Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #88 on: June 20, 2016, 10:11:01 pm »
It is a 2 person race. Anything else is unsupported fantasy.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline libertybele

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #89 on: June 20, 2016, 10:33:32 pm »
I did - read the original post.  You might not like the fact that I approached the argument by showing what Hillary would do if elected, and asked why what Trump would do would be worse.  You have provided no rebuttal to that point.  You gave reasons without reason, only emotion-based opinion. 

As to the primary process, we had one.  You have not given any evidence that Trump somehow committed election fraud, which means you are in effect stating that the voters - all of whom had a chance to cast a ballot for their favorite candidate - are irrelevant because a plurality didn't vote for your candidate.  Perhaps you'd like to mirror the Democrat party and just have super-delegates make the real decisions.  HINT:  You wouldn't be happy with THAT outcome either. 

#NeverTrump #GetsHillary


??? Obviously you still don't understand and are trying to put words in my mouth. I'm not going to ping-pong this back and forth any more.  Done.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #90 on: June 20, 2016, 10:50:06 pm »
What if your principles dictate that you act when lack of action means evil advances further/faster than it would otherwise?

I believe there is so little difference between Trump and Hitlery that both choices are equally untenable.  Acting means a Sophie's Choice.  The amount of suck is going to be so great as to render the differences of the suck meaningless.

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In too many cases, what folks call "principles" are an excuse to smugly sit back and claim to not be responsible for something.  It makes them feel better - just like liberals professing support for the cause de jour makes them feel better about themselves, without actually have to lift a finger.  Thus, "principle" is conflated with "intellectual (or actual) laziness." 

But by all means - please do feel good about your principles.

It does not make me feel good to admit I am powerless to thwart the evil consequences of my fellow American's election insanity.  I'll not feel better by blindly joining the insanity.

Silver Pines

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #91 on: June 20, 2016, 11:01:31 pm »
Isn't it enough to know that we're deciding between socialism and capitalism? And whether we will try to get back to our Judeo-Christian roots or become a multi-culturist mish-mash of various moral codes?
I don't think the details matter all that much. Few Presidents have been able to accomplish more than 3-4 major things. Pick the 4 best of hillary's promises and the 4 worst of Trump's, and I think it's clear that Trump at his worst is still better than hillary would ever be.
Trump has a list of very acceptable Supreme Court nominations, and that is very important. He also wants to reconstitute our military (which has suffered greatly). I am hoping that his vp selection will be impressive. And those three things are a pretty good start for Trump.

I truly do not understand why anyone would think Donald Trump could get the country back to its Christian roots.  The man is all but an atheist; after getting on stage and waving his Bible and claiming Jesus, Ben Carson admitted that Trump is only now "moving toward" the discovery that there is a higher power.

I've watched him openly mock a disabled man for laughs.

  He used to talk with Howard Stern about premature ejaculation and celebrity sex tapes.  When asked what he has in common with his daughter, he responded, "Sex."

 He said that the avoidance of sexually transmitted diseases was his own personal Vietnam. 

He bragged about the number of married women he slept with, and in fact used to enjoy calling their husbands to rub it in.

And then there's the problem of his nonstop pathological lying.

Honestly, if the Christian church in this country is looking to such an individual for leadership, it is a very sick church indeed.


https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/05/dear-christian-leaders-youre-playing-a-very-dangerous-game

Silver Pines

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #92 on: June 20, 2016, 11:03:11 pm »
I don't think you get it.  ^-^ Trump may have some liberal leanings, but he also is a capitalist and a patriot. He has a great list of Supreme Court nominees, and that is a major issue for this election.

Please don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. You might not love Trump (I don't), but he sure beats the alternative (hillary).

How is Trump a patriot?  What has he done for the country, or for the cause of conservatism?


Offline sinkspur

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #93 on: June 20, 2016, 11:07:54 pm »
I have to chuckle at you here.  You and the rest of the #NeverTrump crowd haven't figured out that Trump's appeal is to our natural allies - the blue-collar folks who've been ignored and swept under the carpet by the Big Business and Big Racist wings of the main US political parties.  You know, those Reagan Democrats?  Trump is their last hope (right or wrong) before unrestricted immigration and ethnic set-asides permanently balkanize the US.  They live the results of unfair trade, cheap labor, and all the rest.  But, hey, they are not super conservative, so let's all stay home and wait to die.  Cause, you know, pride and stuff.

On another note, I was painting an image with the whole bullet to the head thing.  A bit of artistic license, and I apologize.  In truth, you'll never see the drone strike coming.  Which sucks, because so many on our side are really looking forward to dying gloriously rather than give in to the Socialist thugs.  Alas, the WHOOSH-BOOM and darkness doesn't fit the narrative.

Hyperbole and apocalyptic nonsense much? 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Silver Pines

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #94 on: June 20, 2016, 11:09:26 pm »
Seriously, ignorance and bombast could cause just as much loss of life as being feckless. His ego will not allow him to take advice from anyone that he views as in any way opposing him.

Exactly.  The man is woefully ignorant of how government works; he's completely unfit for office.  I don't believe our troops would be at all safe with him in office.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #95 on: June 21, 2016, 02:01:06 am »
Oceander wrote above:
"Free the Delegates:  http://www.freethedelegates.com/"

Are you finally going to stop posting this nonsense once the convention has ended and Trump is the official nominee ...?   ;)

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #96 on: June 21, 2016, 02:06:17 am »
ScottinVA wrote above:
"Trump has no chance of winning; those who oppose him have known this from Day One."

Heh.
That's exactly what the pundits were saying regarding Trump and the Republican nomination, before there ever -were- n'ertrumpers bouncin' 'round the rubberized room that The Briefing Room politics forum has become.

But ok.
I guess it follows that since Trump had no chance to win the nomination, his chances to win the presidency are roughly the same odds...   ;)

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #97 on: June 21, 2016, 02:59:11 am »
ScottinVA wrote above:
"Trump has no chance of winning; those who oppose him have known this from Day One."

But ok.
I guess it follows that since Trump had no chance to win the nomination, his chances to win the presidency are roughly the same odds...   ;)

Nope.. not even close.  There is a Grand Canyon of difference between the Trump-worshipping GOP plurality (abetted by strategic-voting dems) and what is now a center-left electorate as a whole.  Trump has the highest unfavorables of any Presidential candidate in history, and trails Clinton by increasing polling numbers as the days go by. 

Denying the gravity of the situation can give momentary hope, but that hope is not only false, it's irrational.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 03:02:33 am by ScottinVA »

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #98 on: June 21, 2016, 03:02:11 am »
Well there is the fact that Trump appears to be just using the campaign funds to pay himself. There is that.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #99 on: June 21, 2016, 03:17:54 am »
Hyperbole and apocalyptic nonsense much?

I think using "nonsense" is going too far.  And I'm not the one who indicated he'd be hiding in mountains, swamps, and abandoned nuclear facilities to avoid Hillary's goons. 

Care to take a crack at the main ask from my original post?  Still looking for someone to explain how Trump would be worse than what Hillary will do with her guaranteed packed Supreme Court vs. the "Trump is lying about everything, trust me, and he will do the same thing" argument.
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.