Author Topic: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton  (Read 4869 times)

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2016, 11:06:22 am »
No, I am looking for an argument from those who say Trump is the greater evil.  You didn't read the first few lines.  But you still might be able to help in the dialogue - can you tell me what you are "conserving" if Hillary wins and my scenario plays out? 

And he's not "my boy" - he's the GOP nominee.  I didn't vote for him, and I'm a refugee from TOS because I was arguing with his supporters while there were primaries to be contested.

It is you who is missing the point and not fully understanding what is going on here. I REFUSE to vote for someone I don't think will be good for this country.  In other words, I am NOT going to vote for the lesser of two evils.  I've been done voting for that ticket a long time ago. I will only vote my conscious.  If necessary I will write in the candidate of my choice.  In my state I know that there will be a 3rd party candidate running whom I feel will be much much better than either Trump or Clinton, that gives me another option. Nor am I going to vote for the person who I feel will win. We're not betting on a horse in a horse race, we're voting for a person who we entrust with this country.  I don't feel I can entrust this country to either Trump or Clinton. 

Too often people have voted for someone just because they are affiliated with a party even though they may be terrible for this country and vote for them or they vote for an incumbent simply because they are affiliated with a party even though they're doing a terrible job. Donald J. Trump is the result of that thinking. 

I intend to cast my vote for whom I feel will be good for this country.  I am not going to cast a protest vote, lesser of two evils vote or vote for someone because of party affiliation.  IMHO had everyone done this a long time ago, we wouldn't be facing electing a criminal or a narcissistic demagogue for president.

#NEVERTrump
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 11:06:50 am by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2016, 11:14:33 am »
I'm looking for a fact-based response to a question on Trump vs. Clinton in 2016.  I've seen many #NeverTrump folks state that Hillary is survivable, but Trump would not be.  Things like, "we'll live through Hillary and the Republican Party will reemerge stronger for it."  So tell me where in the following scenario I'm wrong...and please be as verbose as you can - the 5 word, "because Trump is a facist/Hitler/liberal" isn't in the spirit of the dialogue I'm after.  I REALLY want to know if I'm missing the answer on this.

Hillary wins. 
  • Huma Abeddin replaces Valerie Jarrett, and the pro-Islam policies and sympathetic staff in the various national security agencies only increase in power and headcount.
  • Clarence Thomas retires, and Hillary nominates two solid Leftists to the Supreme Court - all decisions are now 6-3 or 7-2 in favor of destroying liberty and the Constitution.
  • Within 100 days, she uses executive orders to effectively cease deportations.  Within a year, she has fast-tracked legalization and naturalization.  Millions of now legal immigrants are made citizens by the 2020 elections, while the demographic shift reduces dependable Republican voters (i.e. four years' worth of folks dying of old age - Obamacare bonus).  Formerly red states (Florida, Virginia, even North Carolina) are now solidly Democrat. No conservative Republican will ever sit in the White House again. No challenge in the courts stops this (6-3, 7-2 - remember?)  The Leftist voting blocks now put the Senate and House majorities in jeopardy (with reversals possible in 2020 or sooner).
  • Economic and governmental warfare against conservative power bases accelerates.  Government contracts shift to favor blue states, pro-union corporations are advanced while free-market groups are strangled slowly (ex. Obamacare waivers).  No challenge in the courts stops this (6-3, 7-2 - understand yet?)
  • Within 100 days, Hillary issues an executive order requiring ammo importers, manufacturers, and sellers to comply with a slew of new regulations that effectively limit purchases and track buyers.  She and sympathizers in the GOP pass an "assault weapons" ban that now has more teeth that the one passed in 1994.  Within a year, ATF rules are written making all firearms transfers subject to special filing fees and background checks.  The national database is now digital.  Enforcement actions for minor violations start shutting down shops and other sales methods.  No challenge in the courts...well, you get it by now...
  • The Fairness Doctrine returns, curbing the voices on conservative talk radio and even reaching into Christian broadcasting due to FCC regulation.
  • The LGBT agenda advances without impediment.  Programs started in the military by Obama expand exponentially.   Federal education money becomes dependent on public schools teaching from an approved, pro-LGBT curriculum. 
  • Her foreign policy favoring militant Islam means Israel is without her former US ally.  Evil moves in the Middle East.  China ignores the US in Asia and 70 years of peace bought with US blood is squandered.

Where am I wrong?  For you to be against Trump, you have to think he would produce worse outcomes that the above.  If you think he would, provide specifics.  Explain how you think "we" will survive Hillary, when Hillary and her allies will make sure there's never an election "we" can win...ever...again. [dramatic ellipses]

And while you're providing specifics, also respond to the fact that Trump won the primary.  He wasn't placed in that position by the GOP elite, people came out and voted for him, voted more for Trump than they did for his 15 opponents, all of which dropped out before the primaries were over, leaving Trump in command of the field.  As a republic, the representative was chosen.  What is the basis for nullifying the representative who finished with a win?

This is a reason why I'm not #nevertrump. I find him wholely unqualified for the office, but i'm not prepared to let HIllary waltz in there. I have nothing against the #nevertrumps, understand their viewpoint, but my vote is my own. Of course, Trump doesn't automatically get my vote either. It's either Trump or Gary Johnson at this point. I probably will not decided until the day of my vote.

Offline verga

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2016, 11:20:27 am »
We disagree on that. Trump's ego will not allow him to be seen as a feckless CIC. He may very well get our collective butt in a sling with his bombast, but he won't sacrifice American lives the way Clinton did in Benghazi.
Seriously, ignorance and bombast could cause just as much loss of life as being feckless. His ego will not allow him to take advice from anyone that he views as in any way opposing him.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2016, 11:20:46 am »
You have no clue what Trump would do because the only thing you have are his words, and as he told us in his book, The Art of the Deal, he doesn't tell the truth in negotiations - and seeking the nomination is just a negotiation - he tells "truthful hyperboles" - what my sainted grandmother would call fibs - and so what he says cannot be trusted.

All that's left is the political milieu in which he has lived and breathed for all of his life:  NYC.  In that milieu he is a Rockefeller Republican - a liberal - just like Michael Bloomberg.
Actually we have the people who know him personally and have worked for him numbering in the Thousands over the years saying the exact opposite of what you claim he is like. Then we have the fact that the arguments #neverTrump/Democrats make are for most of them deceptive. Like yours hes a bad business man. One percent chapter 11 out of over 400 businesses is NOT a bad manager in anybodies book. But we see it repeated ad nauseam in here. Same for most everything  claimed. Yeah hes got some attitudes from NY. Hes Still a Capitalist and unlike the Democrats He loves America and does not like the people who killed people he knew on 911. No Matter how you spin it, #nevertrump is a Democrat operation.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2016, 12:07:47 pm »
The GOPe hasn't shown a propensity to stop Obama in the last 4 years - and they had the majority. 

Contrary to the histrionic claims at TOS, the GOP has successfully blocked or impeded a great deal. Do you really think we wouldn't have much more liberal stuff passing if the Dems held both houses of Congress?
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2016, 12:37:23 pm »
Contrary to the histrionic claims at TOS, the GOP has successfully blocked or impeded a great deal. Do you really think we wouldn't have much more liberal stuff passing if the Dems held both houses of Congress?

Sure ... if you exclude Obama's dozens of Executive Orders, the Iran Nuclear Deal, the new budget, the funding of Syrian "refugees", defunding Obamacare, holding someone accountable for the Benghazi murders,  removing the IRS mandate to target conservatives. . .

In your world, the GOPe under Paul Ryan are our heroes.   How nice for you.   :whistle:

BTW, it's okay for you to speak for yourself without dragging another political forum into it.  You're safe here.   :smokin:




« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 12:39:22 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2016, 12:40:55 pm »
The specter of a Hillary Clinton presidency is what the Trump backers should've considered before foisting an unstable, unprepared, divisive, and unelectable shapeshifter of a candidate onto the rest of us.  The GOP list of candidates had far more talent and substance; nearly any one of them would've had a far better chance of emerging victorious in November.  But... sadly.. the noisy plurality chose the absolutely worst option, i.e., the orange-headed carnival barker whose rhetoric may provide a momentary catharsis for some, but shows he's not so much as an inch deep in knowledge of issues of governance. 

At no time will this become more evident than the debates, when Hillary starts demanding details from Trump about his policy positions.  Details are not Trump's forte, and his trademark penchant for personal insults and other ad hominem attacks won't sell with the electorate as a whole.  He can try railing on about Hillary's corruption and the indictment that will never come, but voters have already factored her faults into their settled opinions.  They see her as marginally more tolerable than Trump, and will vote accordingly.

Trump has no chance of winning; those who oppose him have known this from Day One.  The rest should've listened when the election was still a winnable one. 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 12:46:34 pm by ScottinVA »

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2016, 01:23:58 pm »
Nine hours from posting, and it looks like the responses can be summarized as below. 
  • Hillary will not govern as the far Leftist she is campaigning as, so don't worry about her winning, i.e. Trump < Hillary.
  • Trump will not govern as the Conservative he claims to be, so don't worry about him losing, i.e Trump <= Hillary.
  • The primary voters are fools who didn't select a candidate I like, so I'm voting third party or not at all.  Actually, wait, no one has yet addressed the fact that Trump defeated the others in the primaries, which is where the fight was settled.  This is being completely ignored.
  • Conservatives are principled people and I am a Conservative, so I won't vote, even if it means the United States is destroyed as a result.  I'll go to my grave, and perhaps watch my children and grandchildren marched into one, but I'll feel good about my decision.  And then be shot.  Bonus Pyrrhic Moral Victory Point: tell your executioners you're OK with this so you can smile smugly before they blow your brains out.  I may have succumbed to rhetorical hyperbole on this last bullet point. (Bullet point, mass grave, execution - get it?)
  • NEW ONE - Trump is running both to give the White House to Hillary AND to win the White House for himself to fulfill his ego-maniacal desires.  Trump really IS devious...
Did I miss any?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 02:22:52 pm by Liberty Tree Dr »
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2016, 01:32:05 pm »
The specter of a Hillary Clinton presidency is what the Trump backers should've considered before foisting an unstable, unprepared, divisive, and unelectable shapeshifter of a candidate onto the rest of us.  The GOP list of candidates had far more talent and substance; nearly any one of them would've had a far better chance of emerging victorious in November.  But... sadly.. the noisy plurality chose the absolutely worst option, i.e., the orange-headed carnival barker whose rhetoric may provide a momentary catharsis for some, but shows he's not so much as an inch deep in knowledge of issues of governance. 
So you're saying F$#! the large plurality of primary voters?  If the situation were reversed, would you be OK if a sizable % of primary voters were refusing to vote for Ted Cruz, and some were even trying to remove him from consideration at the convention because they see him as in-electable and unlikable?  If you would not be OK with this, how would you go about convincing the #NeverCruz folks that refusing to vote for Cruz would hand Hillary the White House?
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline verga

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2016, 01:33:47 pm »
The specter of a Hillary Clinton presidency is what the Trump backers should've considered before foisting an unstable, unprepared, divisive, and unelectable shapeshifter of a candidate onto the rest of us.  The GOP list of candidates had far more talent and substance; nearly any one of them would've had a far better chance of emerging victorious in November.  But... sadly.. the noisy plurality chose the absolutely worst option, i.e., the orange-headed carnival barker whose rhetoric may provide a momentary catharsis for some, but shows he's not so much as an inch deep in knowledge of issues of governance.
For the last two presidential election cycles we have had faux Conservatives foisted on us, built up by the media, and then trashed by that same media to elect the super cool fun guy whose only talent was reading off the teleprompter. There is also the details of his personal life and shady business dealings that will be blown out of proportion by the media. sHrillary has done her opposition research and will be sharing this (If she hasn't already) with the media and the feeding frenzy will begin the day after the convention nominates this turd.

At no time will this become more evident than the debates, when Hillary starts demanding details from Trump about his policy positions.  Details are not Trump's forte, and his trademark penchant for personal insults and other ad hominem attacks won't sell with the electorate as a whole.  He can try railing on about Hillary's corruption and the indictment that will never come, but voters have already factored her faults into their settled opinions.  They see her as marginally more tolerable than Trump, and will vote accordingly.
He will not be able to hide behind the insults  and ad hominem attacks because the moderators will be pushing him for details if she doesn't. Further when he loses his temper and says something stupid (Notice I said WHEN not "if") the media will run that in the news cycle every chance they get.

Trump has no chance of winning; those who oppose him have known this from Day One.  The rest should've listened when the election was still a winnable one.
The smartest thing to do is to bring in any number of compromise CONSERVATIVE candidates to take his place. (BTW Jeb is not a Conservative.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2016, 01:59:55 pm »
So you're saying F$#! the large plurality of primary voters?  If the situation were reversed, would you be OK if a sizable % of primary voters were refusing to vote for Ted Cruz, and some were even trying to remove him from consideration at the convention because they see him as in-electable and unlikable?  If you would not be OK with this, how would you go about convincing the #NeverCruz folks that refusing to vote for Cruz would hand Hillary the White House?

This isn't about Cruz and there were plenty of voters who have been #Never Cruz. A lot of them are now kicking themselves for not seeing what an excellent opportunity we had with him. If you want to make it about Cruz there just isn't any comparison. Cruz is a champion of the 2nd amendment and he has fought his entire adult life defending the Constitution and the sovereignty of the United States.  Trump didn't even know that we are a Republic and by his comments has little knowledge of the Constitution nor has clue one about the three branches of government.  Yes, it does matter that one is fit to be Commander in Chief on day one.  The presidency isn't an entry level position and I am not about to vote to give one of the most wealthiest men in the world one of the most powerful positions in the world in order to make himself wealthier and to appease his latest narcissistic adventure at the cost of the American people and this country.

One thing you still don't comprehend; Trump has been in this all along to derail the conservative movement and hijack the GOP in order to hand Hillary the oval office. Trump and the Clinton's go way back.  He is a liberal. Take a really good look around you, open your eyes and consider what I just stated.  When in the history of this country has there been a huge effort NOT to elect the presumptive nominee?  When have so many suggested VP's refused to run with the presumptive nominee?  When have so many down ballot candidates been so intent on distancing themselves from the presumptive nominee?  There is a reason.  The writing is on the wall. Some refuse to see it.  Those are the very people who will be responsible for handing Hillary the White House.

#NeverTrump
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 02:05:48 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2016, 02:20:12 pm »
One thing you still don't comprehend; Trump has been in this all along to derail the conservative movement and hijack the GOP in order to hand Hillary the oval office.
Assertion #1...

Quote
I am not about to vote to give one of the most wealthiest men in the world one of the most powerful positions in the world in order to make himself wealthier and to appease his latest narcissistic adventure.
Completely Opposite Assertion #2

You're making contradictory assertions - you realize that, right?  Is he doing this to give the White House to Hillary or to feed his own ego?  These arguments are offered without evidence, and are mutually exclusive.  Please pick one, and provide your evidence, or rethink your assumptions. 
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #62 on: June 20, 2016, 05:45:27 pm »
Assertion #1...
Completely Opposite Assertion #2

You're making contradictory assertions - you realize that, right?  Is he doing this to give the White House to Hillary or to feed his own ego?  These arguments are offered without evidence, and are mutually exclusive.  Please pick one, and provide your evidence, or rethink your assumptions.
[/quote

No. I believe Trump's objective is to hand Hillary the White House.  Those that believe in him aren't seeing that giving one of the most wealthy men in the world the power of the presidency is just absolute lunacy. I'll give you another on of your so-called assertions -- I have absolutely no reason to vote for the orange buffoon and no I am not stating an argument, I am giving you my opinion. For you to instruct me as to what you want me to do is quite entertaining.  Who do you think you are??  It is evident, that you just don't get it.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2016, 05:49:45 pm »
The smartest thing to do is to bring in any number of compromise CONSERVATIVE candidates to take his place. (BTW Jeb is not a Conservative.

What makes you think should the rules get changed and/or faithless delegates1 violate their oaths, leading to Trump NOT getting the nomination, that a Conservative will be chosen at the convention?  If Jeb is the one selected (not elected, mind you) as a result of this, would you be voting for him?

Note 1:  Use of "faithless" is not pejorative, but related to the concept of a faithless elector.  I make no comment on the rightness or wrongness of such a delegate's decision.
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #64 on: June 20, 2016, 05:56:56 pm »
...I'll give you another on of your so-called assertions -- I have absolutely no reason to vote for the orange buffoon and no I am not stating an argument, I am giving you my opinion. For you to instruct me as to what you want me to do is quite entertaining.  Who do you think you are?? 

I think I'm the original poster of this thread, in which I clearly stated I was looking for fact-based, logical arguments so I could better understand the #NeverTrump point of view.  It's a free forum, and you can post as you wish, but you aren't posting according to the spirit of the thread, and the identified contradictions and unsupported opinions in your responses are not doing your side any good.  In fact, I see little difference between your discussion style and that of many on your opposing side.
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #65 on: June 20, 2016, 06:01:38 pm »
I think there are a lot of us who definitely believe in classic liberalism (sometimes called “conservatism”) who are aware, and always have been, that Mr. Trump has some “liberal” tendencies. However, we believe that he will do the things that absolutely must be done if our nation is to survive. If he fails to do some of the other things that we would like to see done, that is to be expected.

But Mr. Trump changed the narrative of this election cycle, it was not supposed to be about controlling our borders, building the wall, effectively dealing with the Islamic terrorist threat, and re-negotiating these unfair trade deals and excessive taxation of businesses that are taking our jobs and sending our industry overseas. These are things we expect him to try to do, and that we hope will succeed.

Above all, Mr. Trump is the ONLY candidate with any hope of defeating the Clinton machine, despite the whining of the pundits on all facets of the political spectrum to the contrary, and can thus keep the Supreme Court from lurching extreme left.

If Mr. Trump can effect some real change in these areas, the things that he fails to do, or even if he does some things we do not like, we can live with, knowing that because of these important things that he is determined to do, there will be the opportunity to put just everything to rights, eventually. The things that he proposes to do, if he gets them done, will save our country and then we, the “conservatives” will have the time and the means to fix the rest of the problems that the destructive leftist Democrat/RINOs have been creating since the days of FDR.

The thing is, no matter how much you love Ted Cruz (and I suspect that you are a big Cruz supporter) he would never be elected, and if by some fluke he was, he simply does not, and never will, have the connection with the American people that Mr. Trump has, and that Ronald Reagan had. RR was only able to do the things that he did because of this connection, and was able to overcome all of the powers that be arrayed against him and to do much of what he set out to do. And this is also the case with Mr. Trump. There are more parallels between the two than you realize, and if you were my age, you would more easily recognize them.

There will be a time for conservative men and women who you like better, to rise to power and complete the job that Mr. Trump has started, to do the things Mr. Trump doesn’t do, and perhaps to reverse a few things that Mr. Trump puts into place that are not really in keeping with conservative principles.

But without Mr. Trump’s election first, none of those things will happen. It is ONLY Mr. Trump who has a chance of saving us from deteriorating into a third world nation, and it is a blessing indeed that he decided to step into this race. I wish you Cruz supporters could realize that, and be hopeful instead of so bitter. This is not the time for Ted Cruz or any other conservative candidate, this is the time for the big, blustering, bullying, self-confident (some — such as I — would say quite conceited) warrior who is not afraid to say what he thinks in clear pithy simple language, and letting the pundits, the politicians, and the academics shriek in pretend horror, and then steamrolling ahead and doing what he says he will do.

It is not going to be pretty, there will be a lot of turmoil, a whole lot of screaming, fussing, and whining going on, and it is going to take a huge ego and lot of self confidence to stand up to it. Hard-headed Donald Trump, I think, can.
by erkelly; http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3441991/posts?page=58#58
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2016, 06:14:36 pm »
Actually we have the people who know him personally and have worked for him numbering in the Thousands over the years saying the exact opposite of what you claim he is like.

Trump supporters like to claim, "Ya gotta know how business is done in NYC".  Then, they ignore it.

You think people saying good things about him actually believe what they say?  LOL!

I know some people who've worked with him and are the strongest against him in private.  But in public?  They're all smiles.
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“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #67 on: June 20, 2016, 06:17:25 pm »
Donald Trump is a NYC Rockefeller republican, which is nothing more than a rich white liberal who is too embarrassed to be associated with the street protesting variety of liberal that inhabits the DNC. 

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #69 on: June 20, 2016, 06:20:02 pm »
I think I'm the original poster of this thread, in which I clearly stated I was looking for fact-based, logical arguments so I could better understand the #NeverTrump point of view.  It's a free forum, and you can post as you wish, but you aren't posting according to the spirit of the thread, and the identified contradictions and unsupported opinions in your responses are not doing your side any good.  In fact, I see little difference between your discussion style and that of many on your opposing side.

Holy smokes!  Either you know your'e the original poster, or you don't. I'm mot posting according to the "spirit of the thread".  I am #NeverTrump period.  I have given you many valid reasons as to why I feel the way I do about Trump.Your asking me to give fact based logical arguments.  Well, how about some fact-based logical arguments as to why you continue to support the orange clown who has made a mockery out of the primary process?  I've laid things out as simply as I can; let me summarize once again.  There is absolutely nothing Trump has said or done that would make me vote for him. Nothing. In fact, in the very beginning of the primary, he was my #2 pick and I defended him. As time went on, I opened my eyes and ears and evaluated him for what he is:  A complete and utter bombastic narcissistic fraud.  It would take me quite a bit of time to go back through all of my posts and all of the links I have provided in the past to support how I feel.  In fact, anymore, every time Trump opens his mouth he adds one more item to my list of reasons as to why I cannot and will not support him.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #70 on: June 20, 2016, 06:24:50 pm »
Donald Trump is a NYC Rockefeller republican, which is nothing more than a rich white liberal who is too embarrassed to be associated with the street protesting variety of liberal that inhabits the DNC.

Also describes George H.W. Bush ('41), Mitt Romney, John Kasich, and Jeb Bush.  Any one of whom would be less bad than Hillary Clinton, the Alinskyite Progressive with the Muslim Brotherhood pulling her strings.   Saying "less bad" only because I haven't yet seen a compelling argument that says Hillary won't destroy the USA, but Trump would.  I'm still very interested in hearing a couple.  Or one...
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Oceander

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #71 on: June 20, 2016, 06:28:57 pm »
Also describes George H.W. Bush ('41), Mitt Romney, John Kasich, and Jeb Bush.  Any one of whom would be less bad than Hillary Clinton, the Alinskyite Progressive with the Muslim Brotherhood pulling her strings.   Saying "less bad" only because I haven't yet seen a compelling argument that says Hillary won't destroy the USA, but Trump would.  I'm still very interested in hearing a couple.  Or one...

I've never said she wouldn't do damage, merely that Trump will do just as much damage.  No, Rockefeller Republican does not describe those others.  Trump is a liberal in the worst ways, based on his views on things like Kelo, and his political milieu (Michael Bloomberg) and the fact that nothing he says can be trusted when he's trying to get something from someone else. 

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #72 on: June 20, 2016, 06:34:44 pm »
So you're saying F$#! the large plurality of primary voters?  If the situation were reversed, would you be OK if a sizable % of primary voters were refusing to vote for Ted Cruz, and some were even trying to remove him from consideration at the convention because they see him as in-electable and unlikable?  If you would not be OK with this, how would you go about convincing the #NeverCruz folks that refusing to vote for Cruz would hand Hillary the White House?

What I'm saying is the plurality of primary voters foisted an unelectable buffoon on the rest of us, and were undeterred by his shapeshifting past, his unstable mentality or the facts about his quite clear inability to win in November..  So yes... F$#! that.  And don't throw me that "#NeverCruz folks that refusing to vote for Cruz would hand Hillary the White House" line.  The "handing Hillary the White House" issue should have been broached and considered by you backers of that orange-headed carnival barker months ago.  YOU foisted that loser on us, and YOU own the consequences.  Understand???
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 06:41:17 pm by ScottinVA »

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #73 on: June 20, 2016, 06:35:17 pm »
Well, how about some fact-based logical arguments as to why you continue to support the orange clown who has made a mockery out of the primary process?

I did - read the original post.  You might not like the fact that I approached the argument by showing what Hillary would do if elected, and asked why what Trump would do would be worse.  You have provided no rebuttal to that point.  You gave reasons without reason, only emotion-based opinion. 

As to the primary process, we had one.  You have not given any evidence that Trump somehow committed election fraud, which means you are in effect stating that the voters - all of whom had a chance to cast a ballot for their favorite candidate - are irrelevant because a plurality didn't vote for your candidate.  Perhaps you'd like to mirror the Democrat party and just have super-delegates make the real decisions.  HINT:  You wouldn't be happy with THAT outcome either. 

#NeverTrump #GetsHillary
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.

Offline Liberty Tree Dr

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Re: Tell me what I'm missing: Trump vs. Clinton
« Reply #74 on: June 20, 2016, 06:40:42 pm »
What I'm saying is the plurality of primary voters foisted an unelectable buffoon, and were undeterred by his past or the facts about his quite clear inability to win in November..  So yes... F$#! that.  And don't throw me that "#NeverCruz folks that refusing to vote for Cruz would hand Hillary the White House" line.  The "handing Hillary the White House" issue should have been broached and considered by the Trump backers months ago.  THEY foisted this loser on us, and THEY own the consequences.  Understand???

Understand?  Yes - we're basically in agreement that I don't want 95% of Democrat voters, and perhaps 80% of Republican voters making any decisions that affect my life.  Now if only the Article V convention can take place and we can return to the point where only male landholders have the right to vote.  Oh, wait, that won't happen before November 2016 - guess we're stuck with the voters we have.   **nononono*
#NeverTrump = #HillarySupremeCourt
We can survive four years of Trump, we can't survive thirty years of Hillary's Supreme Court picks.