PROOF: @MegynKelly Caught Lying About Judge Gonzalo Curiel’s La Raza Membership to Bash @RealDonaldTrump

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I agree!  God is utilizing Trump...as the harbinger of the Apocalypse.  Avoid the lines Mechanicos, get your Mark now.

[ABX]

Edited to excerpt. Please remember to try to excerpt all articles.

[Mechanicos]

"The Churchill of our Times"????  My God, you are truly delusional.

You like? Somebody made that for me and added the Churchill statement along with the Trump picture. I saved it
As far as delusional, I'm not part of the dwindling fringe suicidal #neverTrump cult that is indistinguishable in behavior re. attacking the GOP Nominee from the Democrat online Troll army Hillary has out and about with the exat same goals.

[Mesaclone]

I think we need someone to do more digging into the La Raza thing.  I went to the San Diego La Raza website that Curiel is a member of and there is a direct link on the website to the website of the National Counsel of La Raza.  Someone correct me if I am wrong please, but isn't this the La Raza that we're really talking about?

I'm shocked.

Or not. They choose to use the La Raza moniker for specific purpose. They do not directly subordinate themselves to the National Council, but they operate under La Raza because they are purposefully claiming that political position. Which turns out to be an incredibly racist and seditious position.

[RoosGirl]

I'm shocked.

Or not. They choose to use the La Raza moniker for specific purpose. They do not directly subordinate themselves to the National Council, but they operate under La Raza because they are purposefully claiming that political position. Which turns out to be an incredibly racist and seditious position.

Shocked? About what?

[Mesaclone]

Shocked? About what?

It was sarcasm. I'm actually not shocked at all that they link to the National La Raza. Certainly, its normal to have a wide array of links that would be of interest to their members, many of which are innocuous. That link, which is also obviously of interest to their members, is not innocuous...as it leads to the page of a radically anti-American and racist group. If Chick Filet's website had an array of links...including business and other non-controversial sites...and also had a link to the KKK, do you think people would quickly jump on that for the obvious racism it would be? Of course they would...and that's just an example, not implying Chick Filet would do such a thing. So the fact that there are other links is inconsequential. And the point that keeps coming around about "conspiracies" 'is a diversion as well. No conspiracy needed...just La Raza groups deliberately associating themselves with the La Raza movement.

[Cyber Liberty]

Across the US, attorney groups with La Raza in their names <> The National Council of La Raza -- but you already knew that.

La Raza Lawyers of San Diego is not a local chapter of the national organization and take offense to the literal translation of the organization’s name. “Translating our name as ‘the race’ is not only inaccurate, it is factually incorrect. ‘Hispanic’ is an ethnicity, not a race. As anyone who has ever met a Dominican American, Mexican American, or Spanish American can attest, Hispanics can be and are members of any and all races,” the group writes on its website."

It amuses me when groups like this protest so loudly they are being conflated with another group that has the same words in their names.  Hey, dummy!  Take the words out of your group's name if you don't want to be associated with them.

La Raza means "The race" and nothing else, the translation is clear and unchallenged.  It doesn't mean "The noodle" or "The automobile". "The race."  If you don't want your group to be associated with race, then take the words about race out.  Simple.  Not rocket science, folks.

Does this constitute a fair criticism of the judge?  I dunno.  That's a separate question, the one that actually matters here.  But let's not twist the language.

[RoosGirl]

Certainly, its normal to have a wide array of links that would be of interest to their members, many of which are innocuous. That link, which is also obviously of interest to their members, is not innocuous...as it leads to the page of a radically anti-American and racist group. If Chick Filet's website had an array of links...including business and other non-controversial sites...and also had a link to the KKK, do you think people would quickly jump on that for the obvious racism it would be? Of course they would...and that's just an example, not implying Chick Filet would do such a thing.

Agreed.  And while I don't agree with the way this all came to our attention, if there is something there then it should be investigated and dealt with.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

It amuses me when groups like this protest so loudly they are being conflated with another group that has the same words in their names.  Hey, dummy!  Take the words out of your group's name if you don't want to be associated with them.

La Raza means "The race" and nothing else, the translation is clear and unchallenged.  It doesn't mean "The noodle" or "The automobile". "The race."  If you don't want your group to be associated with race, then take the words about race out.  Simple.  Not rocket science, folks.

Does this constitute a fair criticism of the judge?  I dunno.  That's a separate question, the one that actually matters here.  But let's not twist the language.

Marvel comics created a super hero named the Black Panther 3 months before the Black Panther Party formed.  They have 40 years of stories about the character and are not about to change the name .

Michael Bolton: Yeah, well, at least your name isn't Michael Bolton.
Samir: You know, there's nothing wrong with that name.
Michael Bolton: There *was* nothing wrong with it... until I was about twelve years old and that no-talent ass clown became famous and started winning Grammys.
Samir: Hmm... well, why don't you just go by Mike instead of Michael?
Michael Bolton: No way! Why should I change? He's the one who sucks.

La Raza has a cultural significance to Latinos.  That is why the term is so wide spread.

Should all the Baptists change their names because of the Westboro Baptist Church?

[Mechanicos]

Marvel comics created a super hero named the Black Panther 3 months before the Black Panther Party formed.  They have 40 years of stories about the character and are not about to change the name .

Michael Bolton: Yeah, well, at least your name isn't Michael Bolton.
Samir: You know, there's nothing wrong with that name.
Michael Bolton: There *was* nothing wrong with it... until I was about twelve years old and that no-talent ass clown became famous and started winning Grammys.
Samir: Hmm... well, why don't you just go by Mike instead of Michael?
Michael Bolton: No way! Why should I change? He's the one who sucks.

La Raza has a cultural significance to Latinos.  That is why the term is so wide spread.

Should all the Baptists change their names because of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Give it up, the spin is not working.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Give it up, the spin is not working.

Never.  I will not bear the shame.
I will resist.

[Mesaclone]

Marvel comics created a super hero named the Black Panther 3 months before the Black Panther Party formed.  They have 40 years of stories about the character and are not about to change the name .

Michael Bolton: Yeah, well, at least your name isn't Michael Bolton.
Samir: You know, there's nothing wrong with that name.
Michael Bolton: There *was* nothing wrong with it... until I was about twelve years old and that no-talent ass clown became famous and started winning Grammys.
Samir: Hmm... well, why don't you just go by Mike instead of Michael?
Michael Bolton: No way! Why should I change? He's the one who sucks.

La Raza has a cultural significance to Latinos.  That is why the term is so wide spread.

Should all the Baptists change their names because of the Westboro Baptist Church?

No. But that's not analogous. If all Baptist churches decided to call themselves Westboro Church's, which is akin to the La Raza moniker in its obvious connotation, than yes they should avoid that.

[HoustonSam]

It amuses me when groups like this protest so loudly they are being conflated with another group that has the same words in their names.  Hey, dummy!  Take the words out of your group's name if you don't want to be associated with them.

La Raza means "The race" and nothing else, the translation is clear and unchallenged.  It doesn't mean "The noodle" or "The automobile". "The race."  If you don't want your group to be associated with race, then take the words about race out.  Simple.  Not rocket science, folks.

Does this constitute a fair criticism of the judge?  I dunno.  That's a separate question, the one that actually matters here.  But let's not twist the language.

Have to agree with Cyber Liberty here.  I'm willing to stipulate that members of the various La Raza Hispanic lawyers groups are all scrupulously above-board, pro-American folks that I would be proud to have as friends and neighbors.  But they can't expect to be immune from the association with the National Council of La Raza easily drawn from the name they choose for themselves.  If they don't like the association then they should change the name.

I am proud that my ancestors fought under the Confederate flag, but whether I like it or not, the country at large has decided that the Southern Cross represents racism.  If I decide to raise it, or the Stainless Banner, or the Bloodstained Banner, in my front yard I fully expect my neighbors to think I'm in the KKK, so I don't do that.  I am accountable not only for what I actually mean in my statements, but also for how I know that other people will interpret my statements.

Most people in the South, even those of us proud of our Confederate ancestors, no longer fly our flag because of the meaning it has in other people's minds.  I don't see why the good members of the various Hispanic legal associations should get consideration that we don't get.

[Mesaclone]

Never.  I will not bear the shame.
I will resist.

The only shame here is the silly analogies your putting forward, analogies that are in no way analogous to the thing you're comparing it to. That's called deception, and if that's how you choose to resist its dishonorable at best. More importantly, not sure what you'e resisting...nobody has refuted your right to run off and join the Hillary camp. Do as you will, we all know and accept that you have the right to vote your conscience.

[Cyber Liberty]

Have to agree with Cyber Liberty here.  I'm willing to stipulate that members of the various La Raza Hispanic lawyers groups are all scrupulously above-board, pro-American folks that I would be proud to have as friends and neighbors.  But they can't expect to be immune from the association with the National Council of La Raza easily drawn from the name they choose for themselves.  If they don't like the association then they should change the name.

That was the point that was on the tip of my tongue and didn't manage to spit out.  Thanks!

[Machiavelli]

That's seriously sick. 

[HonestJohn]

The reality is that except for a few people nobody associates La Raza Lawyers of California  with anything close to the KKK. It is happening now because of trump's racist comments and the cult followers on the internet trying to twist reality, ranting about misleading connections and attempting to make the judge out to be an evil racist (talk about turning the truth on its head when it is trump and his internet maniacs on social networks that are the ones race baiting). Even on this site we have those attempting to change what La Raza means for the groups, bringing up obscure groups that believe in taking back land for Mexico and trying to tie them to the judge, this is where many say "Have you no shame" . This is one of the deranged statements we read here: A judge who is a member of the Hispanic KKK . The Hispanic KKK??? Have they lynched anyone lately?? 

What should be worrying members is the tactic of destroy anyone that disagrees with the orange clown, using any means of lies and distortions.

quoting an article from Leon Wolfe:  they appear to be a pretty garden variety special interest lawyers association. Every state has these chapters for Hispanic lawyers, black lawyers, women lawyers, Mormon lawyers, Christian lawyers, Jewish lawyers – you name it, there is a lawyer association for it in every state

and from the comment section

How could we have come to this point in time?
Long ago when I was in law school, there was a black lawyers association (like a black ABA group), and a Thomas More society for Catholic law students. Would a Catholic, Jewish or African American judge be unqualified to hear a case involving any religious or ethnic issue and not be given the benefit of the doubt that they could discharge their duties impartially? This is just more racist, sexist, vile, vulgar trumpspew. It gets worse and worse every day.
The man is a malignant narcissist and pathologically lying megalomaniac.

http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/06/03/dishonest-attempt-associate-gonzalo-curiel-la-raza/

And I would add, he has done more to create racial division and fan hatred and extremism than any one that I can remember. This is the malignancy that the cultist want to lead our country? It won't happen.

Good post.

[HoustonSam]

The reality is that except for a few people nobody associates La Raza Lawyers of California  with anything close to the KKK. It is happening now because of trump's racist comments and the cult followers on the internet trying to twist reality, ranting about misleading connections and attempting to make the judge out to be an evil racist (talk about turning the truth on its head when it is trump and his internet maniacs on social networks that are the ones race baiting). Even on this site we have those attempting to change what La Raza means for the groups, bringing up obscure groups that believe in taking back land for Mexico and trying to tie them to the judge, this is where many say "Have you no shame" . This is one of the deranged statements we read here: A judge who is a member of the Hispanic KKK . The Hispanic KKK??? Have they lynched anyone lately?? 

What should be worrying members is the tactic of destroy anyone that disagrees with the orange clown, using any means of lies and distortions.

I agree with you cuky pretty much 100%.  Trump's position is reprehensible and dangerous to the United States, and many of the arguments of his supporters are hyperbolic, cynical, and dishonest.  But when a well-meaning, above-board professional association uses the same name as a racist group, it opens itself up to criticism.  Unfortunately some of that criticism might serve the distorted purposes of authoritarian zealots.

[HoustonSam]

Good post. Your concern is a legite one,

The only reason the lawyer group is having its name in the papers is because of a network of social media trump cultists trying to discredit and harm a judge they no nothing about. Defending trump means destroying this judge and the lawyers association with it.

Thanks, and of course your concern is quite legitimate as well.  I've seen nothing that would cause me to believe the judge is anything but respectable, and the effort to tear down the La Raza legal group is just an attempt to destroy the judge.  A now-familiar tactic of Trump, this time played in advance - if he loses, it's because Cruz lied, or because the delegate selection process was rigged, or because the judge is a racist.  Sounds to me like Trump doesn't have much confidence in his own case.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Great posts through out this thread Cuky.  Thank you for helping educate those who want to understand.

[Fishrrman]

MEChA isn’t at all shy about their goals, or their views of other races. Their founding principles are contained in these words in “El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan” (The Spiritual Plan for Aztlan):

“In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal gringo invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny. … Aztlan belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and not to the foreign Europeans. … We are a bronze people with a bronze culture. Before the world, before all of North America, before all our brothers in the bronze continent, we are a nation, we are a union of free pueblos, we are Aztlan. For La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.”

That closing two-sentence motto is chilling to everyone who values equal rights for all. It says: “For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing.”

Source:
http://humanevents.com/2006/04/07/emexclusive-emthe-truth-about-la-raza/

[Cyber Liberty]

I don't know how much you know about foreign languages and the danger of trying to do direct translations word by word.....It never ever works!!

This is the groups own definition of the terminology:

What does the term “La Raza” mean?

The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.”  The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions.  Some people have mistranslated “La Raza” to mean “the race,” implying that it is a term meant to exclude others.  In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “la raza cósmica,” meaning “the cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people.  This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.

http://www.nclr.org/about-us/

Most of those with a knowledge of the Latin American culture understand the term La Raza as stated above. At least those without an agenda. La Raza is used in many other contexts also.  In Spain and the Americas Columbus Day is called Día de la Raza.

If we'd stop speaking English and just switch to Spanish this confusion would end, right?

[markomalley]

Have to agree with Cyber Liberty here.  I'm willing to stipulate that members of the various La Raza Hispanic lawyers groups are all scrupulously above-board, pro-American folks that I would be proud to have as friends and neighbors.  But they can't expect to be immune from the association with the National Council of La Raza easily drawn from the name they choose for themselves.  If they don't like the association then they should change the name.

I am proud that my ancestors fought under the Confederate flag, but whether I like it or not, the country at large has decided that the Southern Cross represents racism.  If I decide to raise it, or the Stainless Banner, or the Bloodstained Banner, in my front yard I fully expect my neighbors to think I'm in the KKK, so I don't do that.  I am accountable not only for what I actually mean in my statements, but also for how I know that other people will interpret my statements.

Most people in the South, even those of us proud of our Confederate ancestors, no longer fly our flag because of the meaning it has in other people's minds.  I don't see why the good members of the various Hispanic legal associations should get consideration that we don't get.

That's the point, isn't it?

[Cyber Liberty]

That's the point, isn't it?

I've been told on this thread that parsing the Spanish "La Raza" is a fools errand, and they really don't mean it.  Those who claim the words as part of the name of their group are really just warm fuzzy people who want nothing but the best for the USA.

[HoustonSam]

That's the point, isn't it?

It's *a* point, not *the* point.

A poorly-chosen organization title does not excuse Trump's supporters who intentionally distort that title to pursue their own defense of Trump.

I think the La Raza legal associations should choose some other name for themselves, and I think Trump's supporters are cynical and dishonest in their attempt to defame those organizations as a tactic to defame the judge.  The latter item is far worse than the former in my opinion.