Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval

[Mechanicos]

Actually the people arguing on this thread are on the side of reality.  Tariffs, even if called "royalties", raise prices within the United States and depress job and wage growth by slowing economic activity.

The argument for profit sharing by the Federal Government could easily be re-stated as "you didn't build that" (Barack Obama, Roanoke, VA July 13, 2012).  Or perhaps as stated by Elizabeth Warren (Andover, MA Sept 2012) :

"But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

It is you who are arguing on the side of the Democrats.

Nope Its the same as arguing with liberals who oppose the keyStone pipeline and has the exact same effect.

[sinkspur]

So like Obama and Hillary, you don't want the pipeline, the oil, the jobs ??

And what are your qualifications to state categorically there are not or have never been fees on imported crude oil or refined products ??

Business experience? Regulatory experience? Searched and studied of the internet, for hours?

How high are oil taxes and fees? Pipeline taxes and fees?  What names do they utilize?

Do you notice a common method with Trump? Negotiate from strength. Say Mexico will pay for the Wall. Raise money for charity with debate appearances. Suggest raising revenue for a pipeline.

Trump has stated repeatedly that our deals are the worst. He is giving ideas for better deals.

No. He's playing you for a sap. And you're going right along.

[Free Vulcan]

Nope Its the same as arguing with liberals who oppose the keyStone pipeline and has the exact same effect.

And how exactly is that? Adding royalties to the deal will kill the deal by making TransPacific build it to the Canadian coast for China export.

[Free Vulcan]

So like Obama and Hillary, you don't want the pipeline, the oil, the jobs ??

And what are your qualifications to state categorically there are not or have never been fees on imported crude oil or refined products ??

Business experience? Regulatory experience? Searched and studied of the internet, for hours?

How high are oil taxes and fees? Pipeline taxes and fees?  What names do they utilize?

Do you notice a common method with Trump? Negotiate from strength. Say Mexico will pay for the Wall. Raise money for charity with debate appearances. Suggest raising revenue for a pipeline.

Trump has stated repeatedly that our deals are the worst. He is giving ideas for better deals.

From us.practicallaw.com:

US petroleum products import fees:   

    Excise taxes vary depending on the product, ranging from $0.184 per gallon for gasoline to $0.244 per gallon for diesel and kerosene.

    Excise taxes vary depending on the product, ranging from $0.184 per gallon for gasoline to $0.244 per gallon for diesel and kerosene.

        2009 to 2016: US$0.08 per barrel;

        2017: US$0.09 per barrel.

    Tariffs on oil imports range from US$0.0525 to US$0.525 per barrel depending on the type of petroleum.

    LNG is generally duty-free.

    No duties applied to goods exported from the US.

How are we negotiating from strength if we tell TransPacific that to build their pipeline thru the US they have to pay royalties? That will change the cost structure such that it will be better to build it thru Canada. How do we gain anything there?

[Mechanicos]

Because there is not a free market in this case.  You have one source of supply, the cost of which is set artificially high due to the tariff.  Why would not the other suppliers increase the cost of their product as well since they can without worrying about lower-priced competition from Canada?  And let's face it, if Trump is going to tax Keystone oil then he's going to have to tax all oil coming in from Canada otherwise Canadian producers will find a way around it.  Canada is, I believe, our largest source for foreign oil.  No way that prices won't go up.

The second issue is that the oil travelling through the Keystone Pipeline is almost all destined for export from the Texas terminal point.  By law items landed in the U.S. and which are destined to be shipped to an overseas customer are not taxed.  So how will Trump get that changed?

Why? Because of changing population size. The only growth we have in the US is from imports. Our demand for oil has dropped dramatically last decade or so. So its a Shrinking market with a mostly negative birth rate and imported people will be reduced in number from 2017 forward. The baby Boom Bubble is shrinking as is members die off. This all leads to a smaller population as well as less demand for oil because of technology. We also have Natural Gas competing for the same market and that infrastructure is growing rapidly. An improved economy will fuel massive growth in CNG as its cheap plentiful abundant. All of these plus more domestic production mean demand will drop. Barring war.
Tolls. The law is already in place from shipping practices.

[wolfcreek]

I did.  You pay royalties to someone for the right to extract oil or gas from their property.  Well the U.S. government doesn't own the land the gas or oil is on.  It doesn't own the land the pipeline is built on.  It won't be building the pipeline.  It is in no position to demand royalties.  It is in a position to tax.  So will Trump place a tariff on the oil as it comes in?


Great.  The Gold Standard for buffoonery is listening to the Gold Standard for scatter-brain.

Cell companies pay 'royalties' to land owners who allow their towers to be built there. Handsome ones.

Who's going to pay for the cleanup if these pipelines leak? What about right-of-way problems? What about property taxes?

[Mechanicos]

And how exactly is that? Adding royalties to the deal will kill the deal by making TransPacific build it to the Canadian coast for China export.

You do not know it will kill the deal. Your opinion is not fact and you do not have a good record for accurate predictions so far.

[truth_seeker]

It won't change anything.  FERC regulates interstate pipeline tariffs (AFAIK), and there won't be any royalties as the oil will come from Canada.  Same for the taxes.  I think Trump still has to learn a lot about this particular business, and how much power he as a president would not have in relation to royalties, tariffs and taxes.  He still sees himself as the main wheeler and dealer as he is in a real estate transaction.

Trump is a NYC real estate developer, not an oil patch man. So he gets the terminology wrong.

There ARE fees paid to property owners, for "right-of-way" and "easements" over their land for pipelines.

I can definitively tell from this thread, that people here don't know what they are talking about, except to be contrary about Trump. They sure don't know the energy business, even if they are from Texas.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=pipeline+easement+fees&oq=pipeline+easement+fees&gs_l=hp.12...6674.13702.0.16042.23.16.0.7.7.0.568.2241.4j11j5-1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..0.21.1775.0..0j35i39j0i20j0i131j0i10j0i22i30.R4IiHoTkfrU

[Mechanicos]

We've never placed a tariff on that oil coming in from Canada before.

We have not made them pay for the protection our Military provides them either. Its why they can afford to push socialism.

[sinkspur]

Why? Because of changing population size. The only growth we have in the US is from imports. Our demand for oil has dropped dramatically last decade or so. So its a Shrinking market with a mostly negative birth rate and imported people will be reduced in number from 2017 forward. The baby Boom Bubble is shrinking as is members die off. This all leads to a smaller population as well as less demand for oil because of technology. We also have Natural Gas competing for the same market and that infrastructure is growing rapidly. An improved economy will fuel massive growth in CNG as its cheap plentiful abundant. All of these plus more domestic production mean demand will drop. Barring war.
Tolls. The law is already in place from shipping practices.

Under no scenario is the US population projected to shrink.  None of what you're saying in this paragraph is true.  None of it.

[RedHead]

We have not made them pay for the protection our Military provides them either. Its why they can afford to push socialism.

What protection has our military provided them?

[Mechanicos]

So any country that sends imports into the U.S. or purchases goods from us is also profiting off our resources and our people.  As are we,

And with very few exceptions (none I can think of right now) They all charge the hell out of us for what we try to move in their countries. 

[sinkspur]

We have not made them pay for the protection our Military provides them either. Its why they can afford to push socialism.

Stupid. Canada has its own army. We have NEVER had to "protect" Canada.

[Free Vulcan]

Why? Because of changing population size. The only growth we have in the US is from imports. Our demand for oil has dropped dramatically last decade or so. So its a Shrinking market with a mostly negative birth rate and imported people will be reduced in number from 2017 forward. The baby Boom Bubble is shrinking as is members die off. This all leads to a smaller population as well as less demand for oil because of technology. We also have Natural Gas competing for the same market and that infrastructure is growing rapidly. An improved economy will fuel massive growth in CNG as its cheap plentiful abundant. All of these plus more domestic production mean demand will drop. Barring war.
Tolls. The law is already in place from shipping practices.

None of which matters or is even relevant. Canada will still be dominate in whatever oil market we have. Impose royalties and tariffs and they will be out. Either two things will happen, consumers will swarm to other sources, and they will raise their prices due to demand. Or, other less savory oil supplying countries will fill the gap.

Either way we lose.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

We have not made them pay for the protection our Military provides them either. Its why they can afford to push socialism.

That kind of stinks.  The Canadians have ante'd up with troops whenever asked.  As good a neighbor as we could want.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Hey @Mechanicos , did you ever just consider saying "yeah, this isn't one of Trump's better ideas, and it's not going to happen anyway so don't get bent out of shape about it."

Just wondering....

[Mechanicos]

Under no scenario is the US population projected to shrink.  None of what you're saying in this paragraph is true.  None of it.

You are wrong. we have a negative birth rate in America with cities becoming emptied. Our primary growth is from outside imports and immigrants. And they fall into the same pattern after the first generation. Stop giving us Ministry of information propaganda please .

Search terms "US Birth Rate Falls"

[Mechanicos]

Hey @Mechanicos , did you ever just consider saying "yeah, this isn't one of Trump's better ideas, and it's not going to happen anyway so don't get bent out of shape about it."

Just wondering....

Hey Maj Bill. Ever think people with education and experience in international trade know a little more then the people who oppose everything Trump says and proposes?

[Mechanicos]

None of which matters or is even relevant. Canada will still be dominate in whatever oil market we have. Impose royalties and tariffs and they will be out. Either two things will happen, consumers will swarm to other sources, and they will raise their prices due to demand. Or, other less savory oil supplying countries will fill the gap.

Either way we lose.

Barring War, the Demand for oil will continue dropping while Supplies continue increasing.

[Free Vulcan]

Hey Maj Bill. Ever think people with education and experience in international trade know a little more then the people who oppose everything Trump says and proposes?

You are an int'l trade expert now?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Hey Maj Bill. Ever think people with education and experience in international trade know a little more then the people who oppose everything Trump says and proposes?

Yes.  But I didn't think you actually believed that pulling a specific royalty out of the sphincter to lay on the Canadians was a good idea.

I stand corrected.

[Free Vulcan]

Barring War, the Demand for oil will continue dropping while Supplies continue increasing.

Again, which changes nothing. The logic remains the same.

[Mechanicos]

Stupid. Canada has its own army. We have NEVER had to "protect" Canada.

Yeah they can keep Russia, et'al  from taking their oil without America's help...

 

[Mechanicos]

None of which matters or is even relevant. Canada will still be dominate in whatever oil market we have. Impose royalties and tariffs and they will be out. Either two things will happen, consumers will swarm to other sources, and they will raise their prices due to demand. Or, other less savory oil supplying countries will fill the gap.

Either way we lose.

Or as is most likely Domestic energy production will fill the gap.

[sinkspur]

Yeah they can keep Russia, et'al  from taking their oil without America's help...

 

Russia has plenty of oil.  Why would they want to take Canada's?

You make less and less sense with each post.