Author Topic: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval  (Read 21251 times)

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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #125 on: May 28, 2016, 12:25:59 am »
I guess that means you acknowledge we do not have a negative birth rate. As far as America turning 3rd world that is where I would have expected a candidate like trump to have a chance to be elected.  Certainly, not in the America I grew up in.
More then one link showed we do. Its being covered up by people from outside America being imported. All those anchor babies are driving the numbers. The American birth rate has been dropping for years. If you think this purge of American culture values and history is a good thing I cannot reason with you. 
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #126 on: May 28, 2016, 01:13:55 am »
Yeah, everyone knew what he meant.
If race is all you took out of what I said and PROVED I feel sorry for you. The issue was NEVER about race. It is about Conserving America. Our beliefs, culture Liberty etc. But hey if your mind can only see race in that. You have nothing to hang the Conservative label on. Because there is soon to be nothing to conserve.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

geronl

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2016, 01:38:23 am »
Donald Trump says he would approve the Keystone XL pipeline project as president as long as the United States receives a large chunk of oil revenue in exchange. 


Massive new energy tax.

so conservative.... not

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #128 on: May 28, 2016, 01:41:43 am »
What have you PROVED? Your posts were factual wrong. So, you took a different route which turned out to be a rough road for you. I can't even say it was a
nice try for the gullible. Your links were for the negative birth rates of whites. Your reference to "traditional" Americans was clear for all to see. Please, Read you own links and think
about how they correspond to your post. :chairbang:
Let me slow it down for you:

For well over 2 decades what used to be called Americans, you know born here, educated here, liberty loving, Christian, hard workers etc have had a Negative Birth rate. You can try to pull race out of that but it does not fly. And that is proven. Now since Obama has opened the flood gates to people who do not identify as American and in many cases have no love for America the "birth rate" has gone up. But its not conservatives nor even American loving people.  You can see them waving other countries flags for example. That is the recent increase in Birth Rate you are trying to claim means no problem. People who have no love for America. So yes we still have the American Birth Rate problem. We also have an invasion replacing natural born Americans with people who do not share your values or love for America. By 2043 there will be no America, nothing you can recognize as a Freedom lovining Christian country.

But hey you were so smart you ignored the proof of that, alleged I was racist and acted like I was in the wrong. 
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #129 on: May 28, 2016, 11:09:32 am »
Keystone pays for all of that.  It is THEIR pipeline.  There are 2 million miles of oil pipeline in the US right now and the federal government owns none of them.

The government gets royalties from the companies for oil that is extracted from government lands. In the case of Keystone, the oil is coming from shale in Canada.  So the US government has no claim on royalties from the oil.  Landowners will be paid by Keystone for easements. 

If Trump levies a tax on Keystone, that's what it is:  a Tax.  And the oil will, as a result, cost more ultimately to the consumer.

Good post.  Clearly elucidated the facts.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #130 on: May 28, 2016, 02:52:30 pm »
Too many blacks, Hispanics, Asians and other non-white immigrants.

Actually, he means non-whites.

Period.
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Oceander

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #131 on: May 28, 2016, 02:55:49 pm »
So Trump is now advocating, in a most dishonest way, imposing significant new, and regressive, taxes on oil.  Sounds like a liberal to me. 

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #132 on: May 28, 2016, 02:58:32 pm »
Let me slow it down for you:

For well over 2 decades what used to be called Americans, you know born here, educated here, liberty loving, Christian, hard workers etc have had a Negative Birth rate. You can try to pull race out of that but it does not fly. And that is proven. Now since Obama has opened the flood gates to people who do not identify as American and in many cases have no love for America the "birth rate" has gone up. But its not conservatives nor even American loving people.  You can see them waving other countries flags for example. That is the recent increase in Birth Rate you are trying to claim means no problem. People who have no love for America. So yes we still have the American Birth Rate problem. We also have an invasion replacing natural born Americans with people who do not share your values or love for America. By 2043 there will be no America, nothing you can recognize as a Freedom lovining Christian country.

But hey you were so smart you ignored the proof of that, alleged I was racist and acted like I was in the wrong.

Just can't stand those Messicans, can you?   Your post above is as close to racism as I've seen on this forum in a long time.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #133 on: May 28, 2016, 03:20:01 pm »
Just can't stand those Messicans, can you?   Your post above is as close to racism as I've seen on this forum in a long time.

Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #134 on: May 28, 2016, 09:26:34 pm »
NP
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 09:27:53 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline wolfcreek

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #135 on: May 29, 2016, 07:03:45 pm »
Trump said something to the effect of "the deal to get the Keystone pipeline was bad, I will negotiate a new deal, and we will get some of the profits from the pipeline. To me that doesn't sound like collecting easement and right of way fees.

Guess we would need to read the old deal to find out.

Offline wolfcreek

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #136 on: May 29, 2016, 07:06:28 pm »
Trump's foreign policy can by summed up in four words, "Show me the money."  And his loyal minions are no less clueless than he is.

What's wrong with that? Why should Americans fit the bill for lesser countries. Why do the taxpayers of this country always get the raw end of the stick?

Offline EC

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #137 on: May 29, 2016, 07:42:57 pm »
To try to haul this sorry assed excuse of a thread back on track ...

Guys? Why are you half assing this, with guesses here and assumptions there? There's an entire board here on TBR that is nothing but energy sector workers. Ask them.

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Offline Chasaway

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #138 on: May 29, 2016, 08:08:07 pm »
Trump's style of speaking leaves it wide open for misunderstanding. He is a businessman and salesman. He employs a "presumptive close" in his manner of speaking.

When he states "we are going to....." it should be understood as his statement of the objective.

I got a brother-in-law from New Jersey. Rough around the edges, but a solid guy. Tony. He and Trump would understand each other.

Trump does not say he has the power to do this and that. He implies he has the will to do so.

Political junkies, can find plenty to pick on, if they spend all of their time in the policy weeds, instead of on big pictures.

As I stated earlier on this, the pipeline WAS a very popular item with conservatives. Now it is a topic for #nevertrumps to join with democrats to oppose Trump..

Bizarre, but apparently true nonetheless. 

So maybe it is for the better, to use the #nevertrumps as practice for the democrats to come later. It is very difficult to tell the difference.

So, I've got a real problem with this explanation. If it's true that Trump is only talking about "objectives", then I have to ask: What promises has he actually made? What commitments has he actually made...that he intends to keep?

Or will any non-completion/failure, etc. be waved away with the "I just meant that was our OBJECTIVE...I never meant I'd actually DO it."

Are you saying that his promises are hyperbole, or just a way of signaling what he WISHES he could do?

Should we take Trump's promises as "I promise to TRY to..."? "I'm going to try to get a wall built." "I'm going to try to get ObamaCare repealed."

I guess this is one of my problems with this campaign. Trump supporters are always going on how other candidates, now and past, are/were just words. And here you are actually trying to say that's the way Trump talks. That he's doing a "presumptive close"...assuming the sale...and expecting us to take his words and water them down to some other reality.

If that's so,  that doesn't engender any confidence in me for sure. And I expect that's what a lot of folks believe about Mr. Trump, too.

That he's saying stuff in declarative, confident words that evoke responses in his supporters...but that don't match what any of us should expect in reality.

And if what you say is only true for PART of what he says, he only does it some of the time, about some things...how do we know which is which? Which is a real commitment and which is the "I'm gonna try to"?

Trump loses a lot of his luster if all of his promises are just promises, right?
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Offline sitetest

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #139 on: May 29, 2016, 08:20:42 pm »
To try to haul this sorry assed excuse of a thread back on track ...

Guys? Why are you half assing this, with guesses here and assumptions there? There's an entire board here on TBR that is nothing but energy sector workers. Ask them.

@Smokin Joe
As a bit of a neophyte here, I was unaware that we had an energy board.  Cool!  I'll go look for it right now.  Thanks!
Former Republican.

Offline sitetest

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #140 on: May 29, 2016, 09:08:57 pm »
As a bit of a neophyte here, I was unaware that we had an energy board.  Cool!  I'll go look for it right now.  Thanks!

Unfortunately,  I didn't find a thread that was particularly relevant to stumpy's current idiocy.
Former Republican.

Online Hoodat

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #141 on: May 29, 2016, 09:35:21 pm »
What's wrong with that? Why should Americans fit the bill for lesser countries. Why do the taxpayers of this country always get the raw end of the stick?

The pipeline benefits America, and it benefits Americans.  And taxpayers aren't footing the bill.  I don't give a rats ass whether or not it benefits the government which is who would be the ONLY entity benefiting from a tariff.

Here's the deal.  Canada is willing to sell their oil to American refineries at below market price.  They are willing to do this because they do not have access to the global market and because the US is a reliable consumer.

In order to get more oil to market, Canada is willing to build a pipeline extending from Alberta oil fields to Gulf coast refineries.  To them, that is much easier and environmentally friendly than building a pipeline across the Rockies to the Pacific coast and putting the infrastructure in place for the loading of oil tankers.

As for the American consumer, we would have a steady supply of good quality oil at below market price instead of purchasing that high sulfur crap from Venezuela, thus protecting American consumers from the worst effects of the volatility that can plague world petroleum markets.

The Keystone XL pipeline is a win-win for the American consumer.  Unfortunately, Donald Trump isn't looking out for the American consumer here.
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Offline sitetest

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #142 on: May 29, 2016, 10:20:56 pm »
Great, informative post.
Former Republican.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #143 on: May 29, 2016, 11:39:27 pm »
To try to haul this sorry assed excuse of a thread back on track ...

Guys? Why are you half assing this, with guesses here and assumptions there? There's an entire board here on TBR that is nothing but energy sector workers. Ask them.

@Smokin Joe

Good idea
I wonder what our friends @thackney thinks?
I have been in the Petrochemical industry for 34 years now, but as a parts manufacturer, so my knowledge is hearsay. Fairly accurate hearsay, but Thackney has this down to a science.
I hear what OEM and refinery purchasing agents think, but not much at the higher levels.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 11:42:10 pm by GrouchoTex »

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #144 on: May 29, 2016, 11:43:33 pm »
Good idea
I wonder what our friends @thackney thinks?
I have been in the Petrochemical industry for 34 years now, but as a parts manufacturer, so my knowledge is hearsay. Fairly accurate hearsay, but Thackney has this down to a science.
I hear what OEM and refinery purchasing agents think, but not much at the higher levels.

He weighed in somewhere on the thread.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #145 on: May 29, 2016, 11:52:18 pm »
He weighed in somewhere on the thread.
Thanks.
I will have to go back and check it out.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #146 on: May 29, 2016, 11:54:39 pm »
Thanks.
I will have to go back and check it out.

I stand corrected! Don't ever listen to me! :P

he hasn't weighed in.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2016, 12:03:33 am »
I stand corrected! Don't ever listen to me! :P

he hasn't weighed in.

LOL, fair enough.
Since I  put out the old "@thackney", he may. I know he was in the process of moving, which could be a bit dicey. The Brazos river runs near the area, and it has been on the rise.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 12:04:13 am by GrouchoTex »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #148 on: May 30, 2016, 01:01:09 am »
The Keystone XL pipeline was to carry the Bitumen (very heavy crude) from the Oil Sands region of Alberta south to US refineries. Along the way, it was to pick up some 100,000 bbls of oil per day from the Bakken Play in North Dakota and Montana (light sweet crude). The US has had, for some time, the legal ability to export refined products, and now to export crude oil as well, so this transshipment and refinery supply would benefit producers and refiners alike, with excess product being able to be exported as well from the Gulf Coast.

For Canadian producers, this would mean secure transport to a ready market, where attempts to export crude oil and CNG have been largely thwarted by court actions, either from environmentalists, First Nations, or both.

What it means to the US, aside from the above:

First off, this is a privately funded (Industry pays the bills) project. Government gets to say yea or nay, but that, aside from regulations and stipulations for environmental and other purposes (adding cost, whether necessary or not), is what government puts in. The rest, from leasing rights of way, construction costs, infrastructure, etc., are on the entities building the line, as are the operating costs. Profit should go to the company operating the pipeline. Corporate profits are already taxed.

If Trump is proposing a "better deal" that includes taxing oil pipelines, what about the other pipelines which carry everything from natural gas to water to cooking oil? How is this a "Better deal" for the companies involved, if they have to pay the government a cut off the top (A cost which will be passed on to consumers). It won't be a better deal for consumers.
Or is he proposing negotiating down right of way leases (worse deal for landowners). Or labor costs (not a better deal for people who need work).

It reeks of needless government intervention, and it is likely the pipeline would be operating by now without an already healthy dose of government involvement.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #149 on: May 30, 2016, 01:05:00 am »
Thank you @Smokin Joe.
This is what I have been trying to say, but could not express it so eloquently.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 01:05:49 am by GrouchoTex »