Author Topic: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval  (Read 21221 times)

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #100 on: May 27, 2016, 05:27:47 pm »
Trump is a NYC real estate developer, not an oil patch man. So he gets the terminology wrong.

There ARE fees paid to property owners, for "right-of-way" and "easements" over their land for pipelines.

I can definitively tell from this thread, that people here don't know what they are talking about, except to be contrary about Trump. They sure don't know the energy business, even if they are from Texas.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=pipeline+easement+fees&oq=pipeline+easement+fees&gs_l=hp.12...6674.13702.0.16042.23.16.0.7.7.0.568.2241.4j11j5-1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..0.21.1775.0..0j35i39j0i20j0i131j0i10j0i22i30.R4IiHoTkfrU

The point being that to the best of my knowledge, a president has no power to unilaterally change FERC tariffs, royalties or tax rates.  As for demanding a share of the profits?  Might be a tad more than just terminology.  He will need some very good advisors in a number of areas including energy.
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Offline Mod1

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #101 on: May 27, 2016, 05:35:44 pm »
Facts and opinions supporting Trump are neither. They are merely starting points to get to the true message, Trump supporters are devoid of character or thought.

In accordance with TBR posting guidelines I'd like to submit a post that is non offensive, content-less, and decidedly anti Trump.

Relic, you are free to post anything you want that isn't thread jacking, trolling, baiting, personal attacks, or profanity.

Go ahead try it, you won't be punished for solid and honest posting, and good debate. We promise.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #102 on: May 27, 2016, 05:35:51 pm »
Trump is a NYC real estate developer, not an oil patch man. So he gets the terminology wrong.

Then that's his fault for getting it wrong multiple times over a period of months, not us for judging him on what he actually says.

Quote
There ARE fees paid to property owners, for "right-of-way" and "easements" over their land for pipelines.

That's true, and to the extent those rights of way and easements need to be paid to the property owners, that's fine.   The issue here is that for the most part, the government is not the property owner.  Private citizens are.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #103 on: May 27, 2016, 06:00:29 pm »
The point being that to the best of my knowledge, a president has no power to unilaterally change FERC tariffs, royalties or tax rates.  As for demanding a share of the profits?  Might be a tad more than just terminology.  He will need some very good advisors in a number of areas including energy.

Trump's style of speaking leaves it wide open for misunderstanding. He is a businessman and salesman. He employs a "presumptive close" in his manner of speaking.

When he states "we are going to....." it should be understood as his statement of the objective.

I got a brother-in-law from New Jersey. Rough around the edges, but a solid guy. Tony. He and Trump would understand each other.

Trump does not say he has the power to do this and that. He implies he has the will to do so.

Political junkies, can find plenty to pick on, if they spend all of their time in the policy weeds, instead of on big pictures.

As I stated earlier on this, the pipeline WAS a very popular item with conservatives. Now it is a topic for #nevertrumps to join with democrats to oppose Trump..

Bizarre, but apparently true nonetheless. 

So maybe it is for the better, to use the #nevertrumps as practice for the democrats to come later. It is very difficult to tell the difference.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #104 on: May 27, 2016, 06:05:45 pm »
Trump's style of speaking leaves it wide open for misunderstanding. He is a businessman and salesman. He employs a "presumptive close" in his manner of speaking.

When he states "we are going to....." it should be understood as his statement of the objective.

I got a brother-in-law from New Jersey. Rough around the edges, but a solid guy. Tony. He and Trump would understand each other.

Trump does not say he has the power to do this and that. He implies he has the will to do so.

Political junkies, can find plenty to pick on, if they spend all of their time in the policy weeds, instead of on big pictures.

As I stated earlier on this, the pipeline WAS a very popular item with conservatives. Now it is a topic for #nevertrumps to join with democrats to oppose Trump..

Bizarre, but apparently true nonetheless. 

So maybe it is for the better, to use the #nevertrumps as practice for the democrats to come later. It is very difficult to tell the difference.

Trump reveals his ignorance when he states he's going to raid the profits of a private company.  You excuse his manner of speaking, but would likely not excuse the same verbage from Obama.  It shows just how far in the tank the Trumpkins are, that no matter how outrageous, "rough around the edges" is how Trump should be viewed as he seeks the highest office in the land.

Trump mania.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #105 on: May 27, 2016, 06:15:51 pm »
Trump is a NYC real estate developer, not an oil patch man. So he gets the terminology wrong.

There ARE fees paid to property owners, for "right-of-way" and "easements" over their land for pipelines.

I can definitively tell from this thread, that people here don't know what they are talking about, except to be contrary about Trump. They sure don't know the energy business, even if they are from Texas.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=pipeline+easement+fees&oq=pipeline+easement+fees&gs_l=hp.12...6674.13702.0.16042.23.16.0.7.7.0.568.2241.4j11j5-1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..0.21.1775.0..0j35i39j0i20j0i131j0i10j0i22i30.R4IiHoTkfrU

That's usually what happens. 

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #106 on: May 27, 2016, 06:17:00 pm »
As I stated earlier on this, the pipeline WAS a very popular item with conservatives. Now it is a topic for #nevertrumps to join with democrats to oppose Trump..

Bizarre, but apparently true nonetheless. 

So maybe it is for the better, to use the #nevertrumps as practice for the democrats to come later. It is very difficult to tell the difference.

I haven't seen any arguments made in this thread against the Keystone pipeline.  The argument is against the idea that the Federal Government can, or should, collect royalties on the volume of crude passing through the pipeline.  It is not difficult to tell the difference between those two things.
James 1:20

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #107 on: May 27, 2016, 06:23:31 pm »
I haven't seen any arguments made in this thread against the Keystone pipeline.  The argument is against the idea that the Federal Government can, or should, collect royalties on the volume of crude passing through the pipeline.  It is not difficult to tell the difference between those two things.

I agree.
We would like to see the Keystone Pipeline built.

It is not #NeverTrump to question what does a better deal mean.
How would he go about increasing American profits?
Could he?
Could he do so without the price of the oil or the end products of the oil going up?

As far as bashing him for not using the proper language, what else do we have to go by?
We have only his business experiences and his appearances in the media to go by.
He has no governing experience for us to draw from.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 06:33:40 pm by GrouchoTex »

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #108 on: May 27, 2016, 06:27:52 pm »
Trump's style of speaking leaves it wide open for misunderstanding. He is a businessman and salesman. He employs a "presumptive close" in his manner of speaking.  When he states "we are going to....." it should be understood as his statement of the objective.

Fair point.  But the problem for me here isn't the "presumptive close" -- it's the objective of the government charging royalties for that pipeline in the first place.  One worry a lot of us have is that when push comes to shove, Trump may end up wanting just as expansive a federal government as the Democrats do.

I think part of this is a function of him being from the East Coast, where there is a long tradition of back-scratching/graft, etc.. between local governments and businesses.  That's particularly true in the case of developers like Trump, who are inevitably forced to jump through a million hoops to get permits, easements, variances, etc..  Not his fault -- just the way it is if you want to do business there.  And I think he sees his role as President largely as a continuation of that, just getting a "better deal" for the U.S..  And he's a "deal-maker", so he sees this as right up his alley.

That's not nefarious or evil, but I think what a lot of us want is someone who thinks his goal isn't to get a "better deal" for the government, but rather to get the government out of deal-making altogether.  And I just don't think he sees the world that way.  It's not his experience, and it's just not how things have ever been done in his part of the country.

This isn't a deal-breaking issue for me on Trump.  It's kind of just one of the many little straws on the camel's back at this point.  But what I'd really like to be seeing is some pushback from his advisors, or supporters, saying "No, this really isn't a good idea", and at least trying to educate the guy on the right concepts.  But instead, it seems to be a somewhat reflexive urge to justify everything he says or does, with no critical component to try to make him a better candidate.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 06:43:42 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #109 on: May 27, 2016, 06:31:28 pm »
I haven't seen any arguments made in this thread against the Keystone pipeline.  The argument is against the idea that the Federal Government can, or should, collect royalties on the volume of crude passing through the pipeline.  It is not difficult to tell the difference between those two things.

Failing to see the logic that how opposing Trump's royalty scheme is opposing the pipeline. Royalties will add cost to the pipeline, making it less appealing for TransPacific to build. That's Business 101, or should be.

And why should the FedGov get a damn dime more anyway? We tax and spend too much as it is. Landowners will get fees and workers wages. That should be the end of it.
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Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #110 on: May 27, 2016, 06:35:01 pm »
Fair point.  But the problem for me here isn't the "presumptive close" -- it's the objective of the government charging royalties for that pipeline in the first place.  One worry a lot of us have is that when push comes to shove, Trump may end up wanting just as expansive a federal government as the Democrats do.

I think part of this is a function of him being from the East Coast, where there is a long tradition of back-scratching/graft, etc.. between local governments and businesses.  That's particularly true in the case of developers like Trump, who are inevitably forced to jump through a million hoops to get permits, easements, variances, etc..  Not his fault -- just the way it is if you want to do business there.  And I think he sees his role as President largely as a continue of that, just getting a "better deal" for the U.S..  And he's a "deal-maker", so he sees this as right up his alley.

That's not nefarious or evil, but I think what a lot of us want is someone who thinks his goal isn't to get a "better deal" for the government, but rather to get the government out of deal-making altogether.  And I just don't think he sees the world that way.  It's not his experience, and it's just not how things have ever been done in his part of the country.

This isn't a deal-breaking issue for me on Trump.  It's kind of just one of the many little straws on the camel's back at this point.  But what I'd really like to be seeing is some pushback from his advisors, or supporters, saying "No, this really isn't a good idea", and at least trying to educate the guy on the right concepts.  But instead, it seems to be a somewhat reflexive urge to justify everything he says or does, with no critical component to try to make him a better candidate.

Outstanding!
James 1:20

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #111 on: May 27, 2016, 06:37:23 pm »
Fair point.  But the problem for me here isn't the "presumptive close" -- it's the objective of the government charging royalties for that pipeline in the first place.  One worry a lot of us have is that when push comes to shove, Trump may end up wanting just as expansive a federal government as the Democrats do.

I think part of this is a function of him being from the East Coast, where there is a long tradition of back-scratching/graft, etc.. between local governments and businesses.  That's particularly true in the case of developers like Trump, who are inevitably forced to jump through a million hoops to get permits, easements, variances, etc..  Not his fault -- just the way it is if you want to do business there.  And I think he sees his role as President largely as a continue of that, just getting a "better deal" for the U.S..  And he's a "deal-maker", so he sees this as right up his alley.

That's not nefarious or evil, but I think what a lot of us want is someone who thinks his goal isn't to get a "better deal" for the government, but rather to get the government out of deal-making altogether.  And I just don't think he sees the world that way.  It's not his experience, and it's just not how things have ever been done in his part of the country.

This isn't a deal-breaking issue for me on Trump.  It's kind of just one of the many little straws on the camel's back at this point.  But what I'd really like to be seeing is some pushback from his advisors, or supporters, saying "No, this really isn't a good idea", and at least trying to educate the guy on the right concepts.  But instead, it seems to be a somewhat reflexive urge to justify everything he says or does, with no critical component to try to make him a better candidate.

Extremely insightful. It also says Trump is not a conservative. One of a number of reasons why I voted for Cruz, and will likely vote for him again in the general.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #112 on: May 27, 2016, 06:58:17 pm »
Extremely insightful. It also says Trump is not a conservative. One of a number of reasons why I voted for Cruz, and will likely vote for him again in the general.

The Third Position, Third Way or Third Alternative is a political position that emphasizes its opposition to both communism and capitalism. Advocates of Third Position politics typically present themselves as "beyond left and right", while syncretizing ideas from each end of the political spectrum, usually reactionary right-wing cultural views and radical left-wing economic views.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

Third Positionists often seek alliances with separatists of ethnicities and races other than their own, with the goal of achieving peaceful ethnic and racial coexistence, a form of segregation emphasizing self-determination and preservation of cultural differences. They support national liberation movements in the least developed countries, and have recently embraced environmentalism.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

The term Third Position was coined in early 20th century[citation needed] Europe, and the main precursors of Third Position politics were National Bolshevism, a synthesis of nationalism and Bolshevik communism, and Strasserism, a radical, mass-action and worker-based form of Nazism, advocated by the left-wing of the Nazi Party until it was crushed by the Night of the Long Knives.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

Political scientist Roger Griffin dismisses Third Positionist claims of being "beyond left and right" as specious. He argues that Third Positionism is an ideological mutation of the far right, which rejects both Marxism and liberalism for a synthesis of palingenetic ultranationalism with either socialism, distributism, corporatism or anarchism.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position

For further reading see Italian Fascism
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Offline wolfcreek

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #113 on: May 27, 2016, 07:00:06 pm »
Stupid. Canada has its own army. We have NEVER had to "protect" Canada.

Canada in under our nuclear shield. So wrong...

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #114 on: May 27, 2016, 07:12:16 pm »
Trump said something to the effect of "the deal to get the Keystone pipeline was bad, I will negotiate a new deal, and we will get some of the profits from the pipeline. To me that doesn't sound like collecting easement and right of way fees.

Offline kik5150

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #115 on: May 27, 2016, 07:20:18 pm »

Great.  The Gold Standard for buffoonery is listening to the Gold Standard for scatter-brain.

LOL!
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Offline RedHead

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #116 on: May 27, 2016, 07:44:23 pm »
That kind of stinks.  The Canadians have ante'd up with troops whenever asked.  As good a neighbor as we could want.

Trump's foreign policy can by summed up in four words, "Show me the money."  And his loyal minions are no less clueless than he is.

Offline RedHead

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #117 on: May 27, 2016, 07:49:58 pm »
You are wrong. we have a negative birth rate in America with cities becoming emptied. Our primary growth is from outside imports and immigrants. And they fall into the same pattern after the first generation. Stop giving us Ministry of information propaganda please .

Search terms "US Birth Rate Falls"

OK so I did.  And I also searched "US Death Rate".  From what I saw, the death rate in the US is 821.5 per 100,000.  The Birth rate is 13.42 per 1,000.  OR 1342 per 100,000.  That means live births exceeds deaths by 520.5 per 100,000.  That is a positive birth rate by any definition of the term. 

Except in Trumpland, of course.  Where you and your candidate feel that you can throw anything out there, no matter how idiotic and no matter if it's completely wrong, and expect people to believe it. 

Offline RedHead

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #118 on: May 27, 2016, 07:51:45 pm »
Yeah they can keep Russia, et'al  from taking their oil without America's help...

 :mauslaff:

Really?  And America had to jump in and defend the Canadian oil fields when exactly?

Offline RedHead

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #119 on: May 27, 2016, 07:54:00 pm »


You make less and less sense with each post.

But more and more sense in Trumpland. 

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #120 on: May 27, 2016, 07:59:57 pm »
Except in Trumpland, of course.  Where you and your candidate feel that you can throw anything out there, no matter how idiotic and no matter if it's completely wrong, and expect people to believe it.

He seems to think that he can just make up, from blue sky, whatever complex and detailed assertions are needed to justify the latest non-sequitur.  "Yeah, that's the ticket."
James 1:20

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #121 on: May 27, 2016, 08:03:51 pm »
OK so I did.  And I also searched "US Death Rate".  From what I saw, the death rate in the US is 821.5 per 100,000.  The Birth rate is 13.42 per 1,000.  OR 1342 per 100,000.  That means live births exceeds deaths by 520.5 per 100,000.  That is a positive birth rate by any definition of the term. 

Except in Trumpland, of course.  Where you and your candidate feel that you can throw anything out there, no matter how idiotic and no matter if it's completely wrong, and expect people to believe it.
Did you see my caveat? Our growth is in imports and immigrants.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/whites-will-soon-be-a-minority-of-the-u-s-population/ 
This is because of negative birth rates of traditional Americans
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/22/opinion/anderson-white-minority/index.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2341066/Whites-soon-minority-American-children-age-5.html
http://business.time.com/2012/10/04/why-the-falling-u-s-birth-rates-are-so-troubling/
When the Border closes and the Muslim surge coming in stops the negative birth rate is going to be felt big time. Right now its covered up by the massive influx of people from 3rd world countries.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 08:05:21 pm by Mechanicos »
Trump is for America First.
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Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #122 on: May 27, 2016, 11:52:00 pm »
Trump's style of speaking leaves it wide open for misunderstanding. He is a businessman and salesman. He employs a "presumptive close" in his manner of speaking.

When he states "we are going to....." it should be understood as his statement of the objective.

I got a brother-in-law from New Jersey. Rough around the edges, but a solid guy. Tony. He and Trump would understand each other.

Trump does not say he has the power to do this and that. He implies he has the will to do so.

Political junkies, can find plenty to pick on, if they spend all of their time in the policy weeds, instead of on big pictures.

As I stated earlier on this, the pipeline WAS a very popular item with conservatives. Now it is a topic for #nevertrumps to join with democrats to oppose Trump..

Bizarre, but apparently true nonetheless. 

So maybe it is for the better, to use the #nevertrumps as practice for the democrats to come later. It is very difficult to tell the difference.

Well t_s, I'm not a #nevertrump, and when he speaks about things he doesn't appear to understand, it gives me some pause.  I'm honestly not sure yet what the big picture on him is.  Of course the pipeline was and AFAIK, still an important issue.  I've heard a lot of conservative policy-makers discussing it.  I would love to understand his big picture and try to translate that into practical solutions.  He does need to work on that.  I'm sure just like your brother-in-law, Trump's a solid guy.  But it's getting to that point where he needs to begin that transition to an understandable guy.  He's great at rallies, but leaves a lot to be desired for those of us who aren't particularly impressed with one-liners at rallies and want something more.  With all due respect of course.   ^-^
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #123 on: May 28, 2016, 12:15:46 am »
Sorry, but caveat included, we do not have a negative birth rate. Now, I see you throw in the word traditional Americans????? Which means what?
which means America is turning 3rd world in more then economy.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval
« Reply #124 on: May 28, 2016, 12:23:49 am »
Sorry, but caveat included, we do not have a negative birth rate. Now, I see you throw in the word traditional Americans????? Which means what?

Too many blacks, Hispanics, Asians and other non-white immigrants.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.