First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch

[DiogenesLamp]

Laws and even constitutional amendments have been interpreted more and more broadly as the times change.  Look at all the 14th Amendment cases that have accumulated since 1868.

*THIS*  is a 14th amendment case.   


The 14th amendment is the worst written amendment in the entire constitution.    It was bungled from the git-go,  and imposed with draconian threats and intimidation against people who were at the time under the Federal gun.   


It is pretty evident that had they not been pointing those Federal guns at the Southern States,  that 14th amendment would never have been able to pass.    Their "ratification"  was coerced at the point of a gun.   


It has been a disaster in it's consequences.   


From the judicial tampering with the excessively broad 14th amendment we have gotten the "ban on prayer in schools."   "Abortion".   "Gay"  Marriage.   "Anchor Babies".   Non-Natural born "President"  Obama.   "Interstate Commerce"  abuses. 


And a whole host of other detrimental policies which originated in the court's deliberate misinterpretation of the purpose and intent of the 14th amendment.   

[DiogenesLamp]

Absolutely.  And big difference in how states and state courts interpret law.  And if the EEOC brings a suit against your business for discrimination, you have every right to fight it vigorously, all the way through the courts.  Many have.

You have every right to fight it all the way through your bankruptcy and the loss of all your property.   

The "State"  has infinite resources and can keep this thing going as long as they need to do so. 

You have the right to fight it until you are completely impoverished and then they can win because you don't have the necessary resources to fight it some more. 


That's what we call "Justice"  in this country.   

[DiogenesLamp]

We agree on Obama anyway.  I'm not aware of any chaplains being court-martialed for refusing to perform a gay marriage.

They were told to perform such marriages,   or prepare to leave the service.   

Do you have a link to that?  I think the Little Sisters case was sent back down to the lower courts to find a solution.  And you're saying a nativity scene cannot be placed on church property?  Do you have a link to that?

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/military-forces-chaplains-to-perform-gay-marriage/

[RedHead]

My point is,   you must look up the people who submit reports claiming there  is a "gay"  gene,   because usually you will find that some or all of the researchers are themselves homosexual,  and this is just them pushing their agenda.

And those who claim it's a choice?  You're saying they have no agenda of their own?

[RedHead]

Bible says two men ought not lay together.

Bible says you shouldn't eat shrimp, get a tattoo, or cut your hair or beard either.

[RedHead]

People have,  or ought to have,  discretion as to how they conduct their business.   Obviously it would be a bad idea for a Black Rope salesman to sell rope to the Klan.   

The Klan are not a protected class in any state I'm aware of.

Christians have a *RIGHT*  to not participate in obscene anti-Christian ceremonies. 

And the homosexuals have the *RIGHT* under the law to sue them for discrimination. 

My own position,  informed by this thing called "natural law",  (which is the what the nation was founded upon)   is that anyone has a right to conduct their business however they chose,  and it is not the government's business to impose a state mandated morality on them.   

And that's kind of what I'm suggesting.  Under my scenario anti-discrimination laws would be repealed and they would have the right to post a sign saying "We do not serve homosexuals".  It would be their right to make that decision.  That removes any suits for discrimination, and confusion or embarrassment on the part of the client.  The market could sort things out; those who want to patronize the business will and those who don't want to won't.  The one caveat is that if the store doesn't display such a sign then they have to take the business of anyone who walks in.

[RedHead]

I object to the requirement to post a sign.   People do not have to justify their position,   nor should they be required to articulate it.   They may do so if they wish,   but again,   no one should be able to compel them to do so. 

I see your point but I also think that people also have the right to know where their business is welcome and where it is not.  If a black person's business is not welcome or a Muslim's or a homosexuals then they should be able to know that ahead of time.

The signs that you propose would be lightning rods for activists to cause them troubles.

I don't think it would for long.  And it becomes the norm then people will make their own decisions and activism wouldn't be necessary.

[MACVSOG68]

They were told to perform such marriages,   or prepare to leave the service.   

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/military-forces-chaplains-to-perform-gay-marriage/

The link is four years old, and so far I've seen nothing that verifies that. The only case I've seen was several months ago when a Navy chaplain counseled against homosexuality and premarital sex and had been in a fight over his views.  Ultimately the Navy caved.  I've seen nothing about any chaplains forced to conduct same-sex marriages or anything that flies against their faith.  But with the subject of this thread being a gay Army Secretary, we'll see if he attempts anything like that.  I doubt it.  Anyway, we should probably try to steer this back on track to the Army Secretary.

[For-Q-Clinton]

Really?   55 views so far and only one comment by someone other than me? 



I'm beginning to think that I didn't leave the party,   the party has left me.

Not much to say other than SMH at what we have become.

[Cowboyway]

This isn't about cake.   This is about forcing people to "bow"   to the power of "Big Anus."   
 

"Slouching Towards Gomorrah: Modern Liberalism and American Decline"--- Robert Bork

[mirraflake]

e.   

Then along comes some thug "gangbangers"   who have more or less informed you that they plan to use your product for "drive by shootings"   or "revenge killings"   or some other unsavory usage,  of which you morally disapprove.   


Should it not be your decision to run your life in accordance with your own moral preferences?   

If you find the projected usage of your product morally offensive to yourself,   why should you be required to participate in it?   

What the gangbangers are describing is an actual crime and should be reported to the police.  If you sold them the gun and knew what was going to happen you would be charged as an accomplish in the crime/murder.

[DiogenesLamp]

What the gangbangers are describing is an actual crime and should be reported to the police. 

That is a moral judgement.    Homosexuality used to be illegal too.   Were you in favor of reporting them to the police back when it was also illegal?   


Is the law supposed to be our arbiter of morality?   That when the law says something is illegal,  we should obey it,  even if it requires the reporting of Jews or something?  


No.   The law no longer has any moral force,   and I am to a point where I feel no compulsion to obey or to report others illegalities just because something is "the Law."   A system of laws that are at odds with a moral foundation can compel no obedience. 

If you sold them the gun and knew what was going to happen you would be charged as an accomplish in the crime/murder.

You won't be able to prove anyone knew what would happen,   but this is beside the point.    You are demanding law and moral judgement be the exact same thing,   and morality does not stem from law.   It used to be that law stemmed from morality,   but we have left that piece of sanity behind us long ago. 


I have known in my life,   plenty of people who absolutely do not care if a bunch of gangbangers kill each other.   

[mirraflake]

That is a moral judgement.    Homosexuality used to be illegal too.   Were you in favor of reporting them to the police back when it was also illegal?   

Back before my time. I knew gays in  the 70's and none of them were jailed. I really doubt gays were jailed in your day either.


Is the law supposed to be our arbiter of morality?   That when the law says something is illegal,  we should obey it,  even if it requires the reporting of Jews or something?  


You really comparing gangbangers saying they are going to go out and do a revenge drive by and kill  someone the same as turning in Jews?? LOL Dang you sure have lost the argument

No.   The law no longer has any moral force,   and I am to a point where I feel no compulsion to obey or to report others illegalities just because something is "the Law." 

Glad most people don't have the same views as yours.  I bet you would turn in a dirty mooselimb or a gay contemplating a crime though.





You won't be able to prove anyone knew what would happen,   but this is beside the point.   

The guy/neighbor  who bought the guns for the Jihadist in CA  thought the same thing. last I heard he is going to be going to the big house for up to 15 years when his trial starts . If the gangbangers told you they was going to commit  a murder and told this to the authorities(that being you told them the reason for the gun purchase) you would be charged as an accomplice.



I have known in my life,   plenty of people who absolutely do not care if a bunch of gangbangers kill each other.

Just admit this is your view.  Nice Christian you are.

[DiogenesLamp]

And those who claim it's a choice?  You're saying they have no agenda of their own?

Most people do not give a fart about this issue.   They don't care whether it is genetic or whether it is a characteristic of nurture.   


What sort of agenda would they have?   And for what reason?   

[DiogenesLamp]

Bible says you shouldn't eat shrimp, get a tattoo, or cut your hair or beard either.

Bible says the Cities of Sodom,  Gomorrah,   and Benjamin were all destroyed (every living thing that draweth breath)   over homosexuality.   



Do you have an example of any cities getting destroyed over people eating shrimp,   getting a tattoo,   or cutting their hair?


Now i'm not much of a bible reader,  so I may have missed any of those examples.   

[DiogenesLamp]

Back before my time. I knew gays in  the 70's and none of them were jailed. I really doubt gays were jailed in your day either.

You really don't have an understanding of the history of this issue.   You are in way over your head in this argument,  and you are arguing from a position of ignorance. 


Yes,  Homosexuals were tossed in Mental Asylums prior to the 1970s. 


For most of the 20th century,   if you were homosexual,   you got sent to a nuthouse.   Involuntary confinement.   The legal term was "non compos mentis".   Not of sound mind.   

You really comparing gangbangers saying they are going to go out and do a revenge drive by and kill  someone the same as turning in Jews??

I am pointing out that you do not have to obey "the law"  just because it's "the Law",   and I used an example in which it was so clearly wrong to obey "the law"   that I thought even you could grasp that it was wrong to obey "the law." 


I am pointing out that there is a distinction between what is right and what is "the law",  and that we should do what is right,  and not necessarily what is "lawful."   

Just admit this is your view.  Nice Christian you are.

And this is what passes for an "argument"  at your level of skill.    You attempt to make the issue about me,   just so you can avoid acknowledging the validity of the point made. 


Right and Wrong  are not the same thing as "Legal"  and "Illegal."   Laws which compel wrong things have no moral compulsion to be obeyed.   


In fact it is our duty to disobey them whenever we are able to do so.   

[RedHead]

Do you have an example of any cities getting destroyed over people eating shrimp,   getting a tattoo,   or cutting their hair?

Sometime before that God saw that "the wickedness of mankind was great upon the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was evil continually" so He sent a flood to destroy all of mankind and all the animals except for Noah, his family, and the animals in the ark.  How do you know shrimp, tattoos, and shaving didn't play a part?

[For-Q-Clinton]

Sometime before that God saw that "the wickedness of mankind was great upon the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was evil continually" so He sent a flood to destroy all of mankind and all the animals except for Noah, his family, and the animals in the ark.  How do you know shrimp, tattoos, and shaving didn't play a part?

Really?  That's the logic you're going to try to use? To prove a negative is impossible.

He asked for an example where it is confirmed the bible said it...not a part of the bible that could be open ended.  Hell I could say god thought taking care of your family at that time was wicked and he wanted more men raping women to have more children to populate the earth and since they weren't doing that he killed them all.  See how stupid that logic is?  That's basically what you tried to say.

[DiogenesLamp]

The Feminization of the US Military is Nearly Complete

The US military is dying by a death of a thousand feminized cuts. From lactating female soldiers in the field to women pushing around baby strollers, while donning 101st Airborne/Air Assault combat patches, to an openly gay Secretary of the Army; it all creates an atmosphere of a corporation, rather than a military organization.

http://usdefensewatch.com/2016/05/the-feminization-of-the-us-military-is-nearly-complete/

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

How do we stop it?

[DiogenesLamp]

How do we stop it?

The same way we stop Cancer.   Root out the Cancer Stem cells and eradicate them,  then concentrate on the Cancer daughter cells and eradicate them.   


But we aren't yet ready to do anything like that,   and we won't be until we've suffered enough misery to the point that it is unendurable. 


Fortunately,   or Unfortunately,  depending on your perspective,    that's coming. 

[The Bat Lady]

To start on the topic and I have only made it to page 4... I do not know much of the man but was against stopping DADT because of privacy in the shower and bunk room for straights. 

I know many military who have been gay (my friends) and they served the county well.  And then I have read of the rapes of men going up and wondered have the many, many suicides lately been because war... or molestation.

I following this thread here are some of my comments.  I'm a new Freeper here but I believe this is info that needs to be out, since our media won't.

To get an idea of how this works in practice,   imagine you are a normal horny young male,   and then imagine that you have no moral inhibitions and that there are thousands of beautiful young girls who are eager to have sex with you the first time you meet them.    In other words,  Females with strong male sex drive,  instead of the more normal  less aggressive female sex drive.   


Well most young males would go crazy.   

They will literally have thousands of partners in their lifetime.   Not 10 or 20,   Thousands.    Studies of the San Francisco bath houses (during their heyday)  demonstrated that they were having on average,  10  sexual encounters per night.   


You want to discuss this topic like adults?   Let's get into it.   I always encourage people to look up reliable sources of information regarding this topic.   The reality is far uglier than the fantasy story that has been pedaled by activists and the media.   (Same thing nowadays.)   

I lived in Austin, TX when AIDS 1st came out.  A friend of a friend was in our group one night at a bar.  His partner was diagnosed with AIDS and very sick at home.  The friend of a friend was in denial and went out EVERY night having encounters with other males as fast as he could.  He considered it partying, I considered him a murderer. 

If the media would tell the truth, as the above poster about:
Biology - it is not safe to have sex in an orifice not built for it...

Age appropriate sex info not be given esp.  homosexual sex to kindergartners...

Propaganda not allowed in TV, movies and books above the 2% levels of true Homosexuals and

Child molesters were executed quickly...

 would the USA be so homosexual friendly?


Recently I had a talk with a friend who as a young man questioned LOTS of gay men for a psyche project.  All of them admitted to having fantasies of women, they weren't really gay  (this was at a gay retreat).

There was a girl in the project and she showed up in short, short skirt and low cut blouse.  Every eye was on her and the younger ones said she would figure in their next fantasy and the older men were outraged that she showed up like that.

My friend started his project looking into drug and alcohol addiction, his conclusion was that being Homosexual was an addiction more than "chosen lifestyle" or "born" like that. 

That the sexual high was so much more intense than with a woman (I'm assuming for the "bottom") they were unable to quit. It is a theory that should be considered I believe.  I also believe this is why they must get to the kids before they develop hetero urges.

...  take a look at that video  (Women and Civilization)   that I posted up above.   It is insightful and profound,   though not politically correct at all.

I took a look and saved it to my computer, VERY profound.  When the women (and I am one) got the right to vote you can see how USA went down from there.  Do not believe me, check it out yourselves.  I do want to vote but if it would have saved America I would give it up right now!

So was this: 




So was appointing a "gay"  ambassador to a Muslim country.   They ended up killing him.   Now who would have predicted something like that might happen?

Wow, I was NOT surprised when the GAY ambassador was killed ... and WHERE WAS HILLARY?  She who loves the gays?  Where was she?  I think it was a deliberate insult to the muslims.  She sent him to his death.  I hope it wasn't as bad a death as I heard on the news.  He didn't deserve that!

And I'm back to reading which could take days.....
But my last comment to end of page 4...... if the conservatives do not have the courage to tell the truth... what will happen to the county? 

[Bigun]

To start on the topic and I have only made it to page 4... I do not know much of the man but was against stopping DADT because of privacy in the shower and bunk room for straights. 

I know many military who have been gay (my friends) and they served the county well.  And then I have read of the rapes of men going up and wondered have the many, many suicides lately been because war... or molestation.

I following this thread here are some of my comments.  I'm a new Freeper here but I believe this is info that needs to be out, since our media won't.


I lived in Austin, TX when AIDS 1st came out.  A friend of a friend was in our group one night at a bar.  His partner was diagnosed with AIDS and very sick at home.  The friend of a friend was in denial and went out EVERY night having encounters with other males as fast as he could.  He considered it partying, I considered him a murderer. 

If the media would tell the truth, as the above poster about:
Biology - it is not safe to have sex in an orifice not built for it...

Age appropriate sex info not be given esp.  homosexual sex to kindergartners...

Propaganda not allowed in TV, movies and books above the 2% levels of true Homosexuals and

Child molesters were executed quickly...

 would the USA be so homosexual friendly?


Recently I had a talk with a friend who as a young man questioned LOTS of gay men for a psyche project.  All of them admitted to having fantasies of women, they weren't really gay  (this was at a gay retreat).

There was a girl in the project and she showed up in short, short skirt and low cut blouse.  Every eye was on her and the younger ones said she would figure in their next fantasy and the older men were outraged that she showed up like that.

My friend started his project looking into drug and alcohol addiction, his conclusion was that being Homosexual was an addiction more than "chosen lifestyle" or "born" like that. 

That the sexual high was so much more intense than with a woman (I'm assuming for the "bottom") they were unable to quit. It is a theory that should be considered I believe.  I also believe this is why they must get to the kids before they develop hetero urges.
I took a look and saved it to my computer, VERY profound.  When the women (and I am one) got the right to vote you can see how USA went down from there.  Do not believe me, check it out yourselves.  I do want to vote but if it would have saved America I would give it up right now!

Wow, I was NOT surprised when the GAY ambassador was killed ... and WHERE WAS HILLARY?  She who loves the gays?  Where was she?  I think it was a deliberate insult to the muslims.  She sent him to his death.  I hope it wasn't as bad a death as I heard on the news.  He didn't deserve that!

And I'm back to reading which could take days.....
But my last comment to end of page 4...... if the conservatives do not have the courage to tell the truth... what will happen to the county?

What a great post!  Welcome aboard!  Long time no see!

[DiogenesLamp]

I lived in Austin, TX when AIDS 1st came out.  A friend of a friend was in our group one night at a bar.  His partner was diagnosed with AIDS and very sick at home.  The friend of a friend was in denial and went out EVERY night having encounters with other males as fast as he could.  He considered it partying, I considered him a murderer. 

Believe it or not,   there have developed these groups of people called "Bug Chasers"   who are trying to catch AIDS.   There are also people who have "roulette sex"  parties where one person is infected with AIDS,  and people get to take a chance on whether or not he will infect them.   

If the media would tell the truth, as the above poster about:
Biology - it is not safe to have sex in an orifice not built for it...

Age appropriate sex info not be given esp.  homosexual sex to kindergartners...

Propaganda not allowed in TV, movies and books above the 2% levels of true Homosexuals and

Child molesters were executed quickly...

 would the USA be so homosexual friendly?

No it would not be,  but that is exactly why they do what they do.   Believe it or not,  Hollywood created a "Gay Censorship Committee"  to regulate how gays are portrayed in movies and televisions.  Scripts which did not portray them as wonderful are rejected.

I think I covered this somewhat earlier in the thread.   

Recently I had a talk with a friend who as a young man questioned LOTS of gay men for a psyche project.  All of them admitted to having fantasies of women, they weren't really gay  (this was at a gay retreat).

There was a girl in the project and she showed up in short, short skirt and low cut blouse.  Every eye was on her and the younger ones said she would figure in their next fantasy and the older men were outraged that she showed up like that.

My friend started his project looking into drug and alcohol addiction, his conclusion was that being Homosexual was an addiction more than "chosen lifestyle" or "born" like that. 

That the sexual high was so much more intense than with a woman (I'm assuming for the "bottom") they were unable to quit. It is a theory that should be considered I believe.  I also believe this is why they must get to the kids before they develop hetero urges.

That is a very interesting theory,   and it dovetails nicely with much of what I have learned about their habits and behavior.   The incidence of molestation among people who later claim that they are "gay"  is simply too high to ignore as a factor.   

My own thinking was more along the lines of "gayness"  being "impressed"  upon them in the manner that baby ducks will recognize as their "mother"  whatever creature happens to be taking care of them when they emerge from the egg.   

From my own experience,   I didn't notice girls until I turned about 12.   I simply paid little attention to them until puberty kicked in.   Had I been  molested by an older male,  I might have grown up believing that sort of sex was "normal" and so it might have steered my sexual drive in that direction instead of the normal one. 

I took a look and saved it to my computer, VERY profound.  When the women (and I am one) got the right to vote you can see how USA went down from there.  Do not believe me, check it out yourselves.  I do want to vote but if it would have saved America I would give it up right now!

There are many rational and sensible women who's ability to vote is an asset to the nation.   Most married women vote similar to most males,   while the unmarried women tend to vote in favor of emotional appeals and for more government charity. 

I think the difference is in levels of responsibility.   More responsible women vote wisely,  and women with no responsibilities tend to vote foolishly.   
 

Wow, I was NOT surprised when the GAY ambassador was killed ... and WHERE WAS HILLARY?  She who loves the gays?  Where was she?  I think it was a deliberate insult to the muslims.  She sent him to his death.  I hope it wasn't as bad a death as I heard on the news.  He didn't deserve that!

When I first heard they were sending a homosexual Ambassador to a Muslim country I thought "You got to be kidding me!   Do they not think the Muslim country might regard it as an insult? "   

You want to send a homosexual ambassador somewhere,  send him to Europe or Asia,   where they will not feel like you are mocking them.   Sending him to a Muslim nation is just begging for trouble. 

And I'm back to reading which could take days.....
But my last comment to end of page 4...... if the conservatives do not have the courage to tell the truth... what will happen to the county?

Here is another article which I consider profound.   It makes the very same point that you do.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434827/individual-cowardice-killing-american-culture

Nobody has courage to stand up against liberals in all the small daily battles,   and so therefore they simply keep taking ground inch by inch and consolidating their gains.   

This is why we have moved so far to the left as a nation. 

[Bigun]

 @Bat Lady
@DiogenesLamp

Take a look at the list at the link below.  Pay particular attention to item #26


http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm