Author Topic: Cruz: Those who bolstered Trump 'will bear that responsibility going forward'  (Read 122245 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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I heard no doubletalk, and he was dead-on right. He blamed the perpetrators. He then went on to accuse Trump of fomenting their reaction by the sort of campaign environment he was encouraging..

Exactly true.

Like blaming a woman in a "little black dress" for her own rape, like muslims do.

Defend him if you must, but his response hurt him politically. Straight condemnation period is best.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Sanguine

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I cant find the link anymore ,but there was a big uproar over it (tuson riot at trump rally )

Cruz came on the TV later   and basically said the riot in Arizona was trumps fault


stuff like this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HGsR49EGw

this cop was there as well



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Bt6b8PPP0


was not a fan of trump  but the way the MSM and the GOPe was justifying that crap  turned me off

@Charlespg, you can't find it because it doesn't exist.  I remember Cruz' remarks and they were very reasonable.  You might want to find them because you will find that is the case.

Thanks for answering me though. 

Offline Sanguine

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When 40% of America gets its 'news' from Facebook and Twitter, and, unfortunately, that gets recirculated ad infinitum, it is a small wonder that so much misinformation gets circulated as "fact", even if it isn't. Some issues can't be reduced to the length of a bumper sticker. Life and politics are more complex than that.

It is the electronic equivalent of the grade school exercise with the teacher whispering something in the ear of the first student in class, and the students passing it on to the one behind them until the message gets to the last kid in line. What was heard at the end bears little, if any, resemblance to the original message.

Yes, and Mr. Reality TV is the perfect candidate in that kind of environment!

Offline WAC

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Trump's whole style revolves around Alinsky tactics. He whittled down the field like an objecting Board of Directors, peeling off the weak ones first, and ever attacking the strongest positions.
Part of the fractionation of the field in this primary was the full court press against Cruz, from twitter attacks, to the National Enquirer articles his buddy Packer put out, to all sorts of other nonsense including attacking Cruz for the actions of a PAC and claiming victimhood--then using that 'status' to viciously attack Cruz' wife.

Apparently, that worked in America's current angry political arena (other more prosperous times, it likely would not have), but it has caused rifts in the Party, and resentments at the level formerly reserved for at least 1 term Democrats.

It won't work in negotiations with people who would just as soon smuggle in a nuke and blow up a city to the glory of their deity. He can't bluster the Chinese to a halt. And he can't order American business to return to a country with a hostile environment (be that EPA, OSHA, Unions, economy, or whatever).

Hillary is just a crook who would sell her mother for personal gain. She is in it for herself, and the devil take the hindmost.

Neither is acceptable to me.

 :bullie smokin:

The "full court press" against Cruz began while he was just a Senator....the press rarely gave him more than a footnote even when he had victories.......also even before  the Party knew he might run, Representatives in the Senate got very nasty as they doubled down  on anything he presented ...They tried to suffocate him at every turn.....those battles were fierce! But the press rarely spoke of.

Cruz  did and still does have a sizable team working with him still in Washington.....and you can bet if there's anyway they can keep Trump form this they'll do so...I recall Cruz saying clearly that Trump is not going to be President. And that had nothing to do with the fact Cruz was running. Those who opposed Trump in the beginning have not been idle.....they were aware early on this could move. And there's a reason Cruz bowed out when he did.....and not as most would like to believe. It's not over til it's over!.....

Trump will do poorly in negotiations because if you note everywhere he sits down to do business regarding his deals it's with a team of Attorneys who do the talking for him when he can't do more than mumble and storm as he does....they step in to form sentences those he's negotiating with can understand.. He certainly cannot... He's out of his league big time and he knows it, just because he sits at the table doesn't mean he knows how to deal with any degree of civility...he doesn't.   Which is also why he won't debate the issues....he can't articulate the in a debating atmosphere ..and then plead he's never debated as an excuse.

There's no easy way out of this mess as we all know, that doesn't mean there aren't some plays possible ahead between now and convention as well, and probably more importantly at the convention.  People are not sitting still on the issue of Trump. The fights not over until he's officially declared the President....and he's not.  If it ends up he is...Hillarys the winner you can be sure.

Course I don't want Hillary in there either ....so those who have the power and influence need to give us all another option.....otherwise I'm voting for my candidate and down ticket.



Offline DCPatriot

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Trump's supporters are the proverbial "low-information" voters.

:whistle:
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Offline the_doc

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:whistle:

GREAT POST!   BTTT.  Man, that guy the_doc has the Trumpsters figured out!

Offline Norm Lenhart

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:whistle:

It is what it is. Millions of them believed Cruz lied and lied and lied. One of the first threads I posted on off the welcome thread here had one such Trump fan telling me what a liar Cruz was.. When asked to produce an actual lie with proof, much less lie after lie after lie, that Trump fan was wholly unable and went off rambling about teddy bears in Texas.

You want to know why Trump supporters are seen as LIV? Because they show themselves to be. All of them? No. Most of them? Absolutely.  Actions speak louder than words. It's not my fault, our fault or Ted Cruz' fault if they give people the impression they do based on their actions.


Offline Charlespg

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@Charlespg, you can't find it because it doesn't exist.  I remember Cruz' remarks and they were very reasonable.  You might want to find them because you will find that is the case.

Thanks for answering me though.


I may be confusing it with his comments on the Chicago rally shut down

 I was supporting cruz up until that point
 
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Online libertybele

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I may be confusing it with his comments on the Chicago rally shut down

 I was supporting cruz up until that point

It's a good thing that it wasn't Cruz who said "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," you would have stopped supporting him a lot sooner!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Smokin Joe

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I may be confusing it with his comments on the Chicago rally shut down

 I was supporting cruz up until that point
Sad that you didn't listen more carefully to just what Cruz said. ..and didn't say.

I believe that was the moment that critical listening (and thinking) pretty much stopped at FR. It went downhill from there, fast.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Did he even mention Trump in the clip?


Nope... IIRC, it was couched in the third person - so no direct accusation...

However, everyone knows who he was talking about...

Offline Smokin Joe

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Nope... IIRC, it was couched in the third person - so no direct accusation...

However, everyone knows who he was talking about...
Sure they do. There was only one candidate behaving like a petulant schoolyard bully on a rant.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Sure they do. There was only one candidate behaving like a petulant schoolyard bully on a rant.

ZACKLY. And it was 2legit to call him on it too.

Offline txradioguy

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Like blaming a woman in a "little black dress" for her own rape, like muslims do.

Calm down.  I'd switch to decaff if I were you.  Your wayyyyy over the top in trying to compare this to what Cruz said.

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other...unless you're a Donald Trump  or a supporter and make it a habit of saying really outrageous things.



Quote
Defend him if you must, but his response hurt him politically. Straight condemnation period is best.

And yet you jump in and defend and spin every moronic thing Orange Jesus says and does.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline RetBobbyMI

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:bullie smokin:

The "full court press" against Cruz began while he was just a Senator....the press rarely gave him more than a footnote even when he had victories.......also even before  the Party knew he might run, Representatives in the Senate got very nasty as they doubled down  on anything he presented ...They tried to suffocate him at every turn.....those battles were fierce! But the press rarely spoke of.

Cruz  did and still does have a sizable team working with him still in Washington.....and you can bet if there's anyway they can keep Trump form this they'll do so...I recall Cruz saying clearly that Trump is not going to be President. And that had nothing to do with the fact Cruz was running. Those who opposed Trump in the beginning have not been idle.....they were aware early on this could move. And there's a reason Cruz bowed out when he did.....and not as most would like to believe. It's not over til it's over!.....
The national GOP made an irreversible error when they backed Trump over Cruz. Just like McConnell, Cornball, and their cronies did in the senate. They slammed Cruz for his conservative views and really showed how they don't have those values. By doing what they did, they made true conservatives more resolute and stronger. The national GOPe has abandoned its base and will now pay the price. All the begging now for party unity is useless hype.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
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"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Online libertybele

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The national GOP made an irreversible error when they backed Trump over Cruz. Just like McConnell, Cornball, and their cronies did in the senate. They slammed Cruz for his conservative views and really showed how they don't have those values. By doing what they did, they made true conservatives more resolute and stronger. The national GOPe has abandoned its base and will now pay the price. All the begging now for party unity is useless hype.

Very true.  Cruz was and is a direct threat to the Kingmakers aka Washington cartel. The GOP abandoned its base a long time ago and they are now paying the price with Donald Trump.  I am still of the belief that Hillary will suit them just fine she will conduct the corruption in Washington as usual...all courtesy of Trump.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Sanguine

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Very true.  Cruz was and is a direct threat to the Kingmakers aka Washington cartel. The GOP abandoned its base a long time ago and they are now paying the price with Donald Trump.  I am still of the belief that Hillary will suit them just fine she will conduct the corruption in Washington as usual...all courtesy of Trump.

Yes, but obviously they would rather roll the dice on the Donald instead of getting what they know they don't want in Cruz (reform and revolution against the entrenched political class).

Online Bigun

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Very true.  Cruz was and is a direct threat to the Kingmakers aka Washington cartel. The GOP abandoned its base a long time ago and they are now paying the price with Donald Trump.  I am still of the belief that Hillary will suit them just fine she will conduct the corruption in Washington as usual...all courtesy of Trump.

If you pay attention they will ALWAYS tell you who they are really afraid of! ALWAYS!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Online Bigun

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Yes, but obviously they would rather roll the dice on the Donald instead of getting what they know they don't want in Cruz (reform and revolution against the entrenched political class).

They have actually said that very thing many times and the comments were posted here with links when they said it!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Yes, but obviously they would rather roll the dice on the Donald instead of getting what they know they don't want in Cruz (reform and revolution against the entrenched political class).
That was and is my point. They (the GOPe) rolled the dice and came up snake eyes and bit themselves. Just like they did with McCain and Romney, they are trying to run by moving to the left, against their base, and are trying to compete on traditional left grounds were they will ALWAYS lose. By going away from their base they show they stand for nothing, other than just an attemp to get get elected. They need to make a stand. Are they conservative or not? Are they with the conservative base or not? Do they want what was, probably still is, the Tea Party conservatives or not? This is why the #NeverTrump are so adamant.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Yes, but obviously they would rather roll the dice on the Donald instead of getting what they know they don't want in Cruz (reform and revolution against the entrenched political class).

Maybe we were watching different campaigns, but when the race came down to Cruz and Trump, it looked to me like the overwhelming majority of the establishment sided with Cruz.  So I don't see them as having preferred Trump at all.

The national GOP made an irreversible error when they backed Trump over Cruz.

Again, that's exactly the opposite of how I saw the race -- they backed Cruz over Trump.  The problem was by the time the anti-Trump elements of the party rallied around Cruz, it was too late.  Didn't help that Kasich was still in the race either.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 02:24:23 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I heard what you did: The rioters were responsible for their own actions. Then he basically said that the candidate sets the tone of his campaign.

I can't stand Trump, and preferred Rubio, then Cruz.  Still do.

But I didn't like the comments either of them made after Chicago.  And to illustrate why I didn't...why did both Cruz and Rubio mention the "tone" of Trump's campaign at all in relation to the rioting in Chicago?  What was the relevance of Trump's "tone" to the rioting?

As soon as you try to answer the question of why they said it, you can see why their responses ticked off some people, including (just as one example), me.  As far as I'm concerned, the "tone" of Trump's campaign is something that all Republicans should have argued was completely irrelevant to the actions of the rioters.  It detracts from the focus on the people who were actually to blame, and invites people to conclude that blame should somehow be shared between the rioters and Trump.

And at the point, the rioters win.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 02:37:06 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I can't stand Trump, and preferred Rubio, then Cruz.  Still do.

But I didn't like the comments either of them made after Chicago.  And to illustrate way...why did both Cruz and Rubio mention the "tone" of Trump's campaign at all in relation to the rioting in Chicago?  What was the relevance?

As soon as you try to answer the question of why they said it, you can see why their responses ticked off some people, including (just as one example), me.  As far as I'm concerned, the "tone" of Trump's campaign is something that all Republicans should have argued was completely irrelevant to the actions of the rioters.  It detracts from the focus on the people who were actually to blame, and invites people to conclude that blame should somehow be shared between the rioters and Trump.

And at the point, the rioters win.

 :thumbsup:

Offline Sanguine

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Maybe we were watching different campaigns, but when the race came down to Cruz and Trump, it looked to me like the overwhelming majority of the establishment sided with Cruz.  So I don't see them as having preferred Trump at all.

Again, that's exactly the opposite of how I saw the race -- they backed Cruz over Trump.  The problem was by the time the anti-Trump elements of the party rallied around Cruz, it was too late.  Didn't help that Kasich was still in the race either.

Wow.  I didn't see it that way at all.  You're telling me that the Paul Ryans, McConnells, Romneys, Bushs, etc. were openly supporting Cruz over Trump? 

Offline Sanguine

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I can't stand Trump, and preferred Rubio, then Cruz.  Still do.

But I didn't like the comments either of them made after Chicago.  And to illustrate why I didn't...why did both Cruz and Rubio mention the "tone" of Trump's campaign at all in relation to the rioting in Chicago?  What was the relevance of Trump's "tone" to the rioting?

As soon as you try to answer the question of why they said it, you can see why their responses ticked off some people, including (just as one example), me.  As far as I'm concerned, the "tone" of Trump's campaign is something that all Republicans should have argued was completely irrelevant to the actions of the rioters.  It detracts from the focus on the people who were actually to blame, and invites people to conclude that blame should somehow be shared between the rioters and Trump.

And at the point, the rioters win.

Probably the same "tone" that tends to stir things up here.