Author Topic: #NeverTrumpers: While Hillary is decimating America, they can shriek ‘Don’t blame us!”  (Read 10574 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
#NeverTrumpers: While Hillary is decimating America, they can shriek ‘Don’t blame us!”
As far as the #NeverTrump crowd is concerned, Hillary’s election is apparently a done deal. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy if ever there was one, but they just know Donald Trump can’t possibly beat her, and they wouldn’t help him do it in any event because Trump is so icky to them.

Ask them about this, and they will offer elaborate justifications for why Hillary’s election is not their fault! Here’s Brandon Craig at the Reformed Layman going to quite the lengths to explain why a non-vote or a third-party vote by an otherwise conservative voter is not really a vote for Hillary:

A vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary

    The first and most obvious reason is that a vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary whereas not voting for her is one less vote than she would receive if you did vote for her.  While this is painfully obvious, those who make such accusations seem to not get this.  My first response is “oh so in that case you would be just as okay with me voting for Hillary as you would with me voting third party or just abstaining?”.  To this they either reply with a resounding don’t vote for Hillary or they see where I am going with it and they hem haw around.  No matter how you break it down, not voting for Hillary is always better than voting for Hillary.  So on its face it is clearly not true that a vote for a third party or just not voting is the same exact thing as a vote for Hillary.

There’s more, but you get the idea. The #NeverTrump crowd is going into some real logical gymnastics to make sure everyone knows Hillary’s presidency will not be their fault, and most of it sounds like the paragraph above.

Let me suggest we look at this in a different way. If you’re a conservative voter and you care about this country, it seems to me - for the reasons I went into yesterday and many others - you would have the following very straightforward objective: Prevent Hillary from becoming president.

That’s an important objective for conservatives, yes?
Hillary out of the White House

All right. Let’s test it. If you say no, that’s not an important objective for you, then I’d say you’re either not really conservative or you don’t really care that much about what’s going to happen to the country. But I think I’d like to give people the benefit of the doubt so I’m going to assume that, if you’re conservative, keeping Hillary out of the White House is important to you. Great.

Now, let’s make a list of all the things that could happen that would prevent Hillary from winning:

1. Donald Trump defeats her.

2. Er, OK . . . there is no Number 2.

This is not about you being true to your vaunted “principles,” which might lead you to vote libertarian or stay home or whatever else. If you want to do those things so you can feel better about yourself, that’s your choice, but those things do not assist in the one and only outcome that can keep Hillary out of the White House. Just to remind you, that outcome again would be:

Donald Trump defeats her.
Continued below...
News from dashboard.idealmedia.com
Sleep well, #NeverTrumpers. The rest of us will be too busy trying to stop the nation’s bleeding to care about whether you’re to blame

You either do whatever you can to make that happen, or you can’t really say you were committed to her defeat. Voting for a libertarian doesn’t help defeat Hillary because a libertarian isn’t going to defeat her in the election. If anyone does, it will be Donald Trump. And you know this. You can argue you didn’t help elect Hillary, and you can offer logical contortions to justify that argument, but what you can’t possibly say is what I can say: I will do the most effective thing I can do to defeat Hillary.

By the way, the reason I am so committed to this has nothing whatsoever to do with Donald Trump. I am neither a big fan nor a horrified foe. It has everything to do with what will happen to this country if we lose the Supreme Court, spend another four years racking up debt, continue turning our backs on our allies while appeaing our enemies, continue sicking the IRS on the political opponents of Democrats, impose even more regulatory burdens on business, keeping letting the NLRB tip the scales in favor of unions, use “climate change” as an excuse to do all kinds of foolhardy things, intentionally put coal miners out of business - and worst of all, concentrate executive power in the hands of the woman who propagated the Benghazi lie, sold international influence for Clinton Foundation donations and tried to hide it all with a schlock, homebrew e-mail server kept in someone’s bathroom.

I would really like all this not to happen because it would decimate this nation. So I’m going to do the one thing I can do that offers the best chance of stopping it. I’m going to vote for Donald Trump.

If the effort of me and others committed to stopping Hillary fails, we’re going to go through a terrible time in this nation - even worse than what we’ve experienced under Barack Obama. Apparently you will be fine with all this because you protected your vain sense of principle by remaining #NeverTrump to the end. What you will not have done, however, is your best to stop this woman.

You can claim all day long it’s “not your fault,” but you can’t claim you were truly committed to stopping Hillary, because there was something you could have done that would have made a real difference - and you refused to do it. No matter how well you manage to rationalize your choice, you will never be able to get away from that fact. And the rest of us will never be able to get away from the consequences of our mission’s failure - a failure brought about, by definition, because not enough people were willing to support it.

Sleep well, #NeverTrumpers. The rest of us will be too busy trying to stop the nation’s bleeding to care about whether you’re to blame.

http://canadafreepress.com/article/how-nice-for-the-nevertrumpers-while-hillary-is-decimating-america-they-can
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Ghost Bear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,417
  • Gender: Male
  • Not an actual picture of me
Aren't you cute.

 **nononono*
Let it burn.

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
Aren't you cute.

 **nononono*

Wassamatta? Hit a little too close to home?

Offline don-o

  • Worldview Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,280
  • FR Class of '98
Lesson needs to be learned that a rejection of Conservatism has real consequences.

But, why worry? Trump ain't worried. He makes it clear that he doesn't need Conservatives.

Or has he changed his mind on that in the last 15 minutes?

Offline montanajoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,324
I'm NeverTrump and damn proud of it. In my view the election of Trump will permanently destroy Conservatism in this Country. Its the lesser of two evils thing. Hilliary will be in lockstep with the left but she cannot destroy Conservatism. Trump as president can and will destroy the Conservative movement. I'm more than happy for others to blame me and people like me for stopping Trump from destroying Conservatism

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
So let's understand the argument:

The primary objective is to stop Hillary

And to stop Hillary, 40% of GOP primary voters decided to saddle the other 60% of the GOP with a candidate whose unfavorable ratings are the highest in the history of polling.

Have I got that right?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
So let's understand the argument:

The primary objective is to stop Hillary

And to stop Hillary, 40% of GOP primary voters decided to saddle the other 60% of the GOP with a candidate whose unfavorable ratings are the highest in the history of polling.

Have I got that right?

Now why is it that the 40% was able to dictate the outcome?

Why is it when the saddling was done the other way around, the mantra was unite behind the candidate to stop the Dem du jour?

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
I don't like Hillary.  But Trump is worse.   

I don't need to apologize or prove my bona fides .   I'm one of the few here who supported Kasich, precisely because he was best positioned to defeat Hillary in the general.   I would have supported any of the other candidates in the general, except for Trump.

It's not a matter that Trump may possibly be less liberal than Clinton.  It's that Trump is far more dangerous - he's unstable, short-tempered, holds grudges and has an ego the size of an elephant.  I know full well what damage the Dems will do.   But the damage that Trump would cause will be far worse.   I cannot as a patriot support him,  and indeed I feel obligated to do what I can to defeat him.   And that means, to my regret, that I may have to vote for Clinton if it turns out that my vote may matter in Pennsy.   

You Trumpsters can stick it.  Clinton's election is at your feet, not mine.  I worked to defeat Trump before the convention;  you on the other hand knew full well that your candidate would be historically unpopular, with every poll showing him easily defeated in the general.  Yet you ignored that evidence.   I do not respect such foolishness, and it pisses me off to have to vote against my own best interest and principles just to undo the damage YOU have caused.   

 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline outofsalt

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18
Trump is not a conservative.  I don't see how anyone can argue that.  He is not a constitutionalist based on his history like his support of things like the second amendment and states rights.  I will not vote for Hillary because she is the Devil I know.  Trump is the devil I don't.   This is perhaps the first time in my life where I'm sure the devil I know is NOT better than the devil I don't.  I will vote for Trump and I will pray for him and our nation.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 08:24:49 pm by outofsalt »

Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
So let's understand the argument:

The primary objective is to stop Hillary

And to stop Hillary, 40% of GOP primary voters decided to saddle the other 60% of the GOP with a candidate whose unfavorable ratings are the highest in the history of polling.

Have I got that right?
#nevertrump = #alwaysHillary
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Now why is it that the 40% was able to dictate the outcome?

Why is it when the saddling was done the other way around, the mantra was unite behind the candidate to stop the Dem du jour?

I don't care why the 40% dictated the outcome.  So now they have to live with the consequences.

Make no mistake:  a Hillary presidency is on THEIR heads.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
I don't care why the 40% dictated the outcome.  So now they have to live with the consequences.

Make no mistake:  a Hillary presidency is on THEIR heads.
#neverTrump = #alwaysHillary
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
I don't care why the 40% dictated the outcome.  So now they have to live with the consequences.

Make no mistake:  a Hillary presidency is on THEIR heads.

Nope. Can't have it both ways. The system that's been in place for many years produced an outcome.

As a wise philosopher once sang:

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." - Geddy Lee

Offline GAJohnnie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,866
Dear #Never Trumps

You do realize you painted yourselves into a lose-lose position.

If Trumps wins you are seen as politically impotent and irrelevant. If Trump loses, everyone on our side is going to be pointing at you people as the cause.

There is no upside for you morons here. Perhaps you should just finally be honest and call yourselves what you are. The Petulance Party. Your party symbol will be a Crying Baby.

Offline GAJohnnie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,866
I don't care why the 40% dictated the outcome.  So now they have to live with the consequences.

Make no mistake:  a Hillary presidency is on THEIR heads.

Action have consequences. Make no mistake, you all will be held to account. You do not get to play the fool then blame everyone else for your actions. Real Life doesn't work that way

Offline ScottinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,509
  • Gender: Male
The biggest, most effective boost Hillary will ever receive is the nomination of Donald Trump.  The dems have long dreamed of facing such a weak opponent.  The ONLY ones deserving of that blame are Trump's supporters and Trump himself.



Offline montanajoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,324

You Trumpsters can stick it.  Clinton's election is at your feet, not mine.  I worked to defeat Trump before the convention;  you on the other hand knew full well that your candidate would be historically unpopular, with every poll showing him easily defeated in the general.  Yet you ignored that evidence.   I do not respect such foolishness, and it pisses me off to have to vote against my own best interest and principles just to undo the damage YOU have caused.

 :hands:

Offline Ghost Bear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,417
  • Gender: Male
  • Not an actual picture of me
Wassamatta? Hit a little too close to home?

Not at all. I learned in 1992 that I don't have the power to stop someone from getting elected. That was the last time I voted for a Democrat: I voted in the Texas Democrat Primary for Paul Tsongas, in an attempt to keep Bill Clinton from getting the Democrat nomination. It didn't work of course, Mr. Clinton won Texas and the nomination in general. So I learned my lesson, my vote is only one among millions, as influential as a drop in the ocean.

So I no longer vote against people; I vote for people. You see, I'm a citizen in the representative republic called the United States of America. I feel that my sole obligation when it comes to voting is to vote for the person running who I feel will best represent me, my beliefs, and my positions on the matters of the day. I have no obligation to back a winner. I have no power to elect anyone, or prevent anyone from being elected. I just have one vote.

Mr. Trump does not best represent me, my beliefs, nor my positions on the matters of the day. Neither does Hillary Clinton. And so I won't be voting for either one in November, should they be among the choices offered to me. I'm not sure yet whom I will be voting for, as I haven't fully researched all of the candidates yet. But I will, and choose one of them to represent me.

Will my choice win? Probably not. But I will have spent my one vote the best way I can, to support someone whom I believe best represents me and what I believe.
Let it burn.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Nope. Can't have it both ways. The system that's been in place for many years produced an outcome.

As a wise philosopher once sang:

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." - Geddy Lee

I have made a choice not to vote for Trump or Hillary. That's my choice.  And you will not guilt me into voting for a man I despise.

I'm joining the 60 million other voting-age Americans who will not cast a vote for president this year.   Are they all choosing Hillary?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
The biggest, most effective boost Hillary will ever receive is the nomination of Donald Trump.  The dems have long dreamed of facing such a weak opponent.  The ONLY ones deserving of that blame are Trump's supporters and Trump himself.
Yep hes so weak he defeated 16 of the GOP Strongest and already has more votes then Romney did. Oh and the fact his America first theme is the one Americans prefer the most makes him really weak...
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
I have made a choice not to vote for Trump or Hillary. That's my choice.  And you will not guilt me into voting for a man I despise.

I'm joining the 60 million other voting-age Americans who will not cast a vote for president this year.   Are they all choosing Hillary?

They are choosing whoever is elected. They are allowing someone else to make their decision for whatever convoluted reason they choose.

Offline flowers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,798
How would Cruz beat Hillary when he couldn't even beat Trump?