Author Topic: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race  (Read 68113 times)

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A-Lert

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #650 on: May 06, 2016, 10:55:25 pm »
I don't defend Lindsey Graham, but this kind of childishness makes Trump look like a sore winner.  He can't rise above anything.

I'm more embarassed by this MOFO everyday.

That seems impossible! :silly:

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #651 on: May 06, 2016, 11:00:14 pm »
We don't erase history for the sake of the present.  I love this Country and its heritage, but I won't make excuses and ignore the bad times to better accept today.  And yes, the Founders wanted freedom of religion, and from it, if that is the choice.  There is not one mention of God in the Constitution, and that's also what the Founders did. 

after Article. VII.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Quote
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,


Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #652 on: May 07, 2016, 12:07:15 am »
after Article. VII.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

AD or Anno Domini has been around for what...1000+ years until recently when I believe BC and AD were changed to remove Christian references.  The Constitution didn't prevent the signers from having their faith, but they kept all references to God out of it for a reason.  Interestingly the earlier Articles of Confederation did make mention of a Great Governor of the World, and of course in the Declaration of Independence.  Perhaps it was the deists who kept any reference out.   :pondering:
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #653 on: May 07, 2016, 12:21:12 am »
Natural law comes from a 'Creator'.  But you are right to point out that for 98% plus of human existence, these rights were not practiced.  Hence American Exceptionalism. 

That they might have existed in the abstract is little comfort for lives crushed under brutality .

Those who don't believe in a 'Creator' still accept natural law as the basis for rights.  Hard to argue with a belief system either way.  It does get into metaphysical debate.  And I agree that a right not protected isn't of much comfort to those who suffer and have suffered.  Interesting to note that even today in this great Nation, many debates on the national stage concern not who created our rights, but defining rights themselves. 
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #654 on: May 07, 2016, 12:25:45 am »
Great discussion.  Have not been to have a meaningful thread like that in over 10+ years at TOS.

Speaking of History, do you or the board know of any good books on the Republic of Venice that went from 800 - 1800.  Not even the UK can claim that , they had Cromwell and other messes...

Tough to find good source in English on this republic other than wiki.

Sorry, didn't see this post earlier.  Enjoyed the discussion a lot.  Currently I'm reading a book on British history, but have not ever read one on Venice. 
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #655 on: May 07, 2016, 12:47:14 am »
AD or Anno Domini has been around for what...1000+ years until recently when I believe BC and AD were changed to remove Christian references.  The Constitution didn't prevent the signers from having their faith, but they kept all references to God out of it for a reason.  Interestingly the earlier Articles of Confederation did make mention of a Great Governor of the World, and of course in the Declaration of Independence.  Perhaps it was the deists who kept any reference out.   :pondering:

You better reread post 661.

That is an unconditional reference to Jesus Christ mentioned.

You are flatly incorrect that God is not mentioned.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline LonestarDream

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #656 on: May 07, 2016, 01:20:35 am »
Those who don't believe in a 'Creator' still accept natural law as the basis for rights.  Hard to argue with a belief system either way.

Well that belief does have a weaker tendency, but it is great that we can agree on a discover-able natural law.  But the key point and concern for those of us in the 'Never Trump' or 'Trump Realist' camps is that selected judges believe both in original intent of the constitution and natural law as a basis for evaluating laws.

Not to be snarky, but I wonder how Trump would define 'Natural Law'  ( image of the jungle comes to mind, remember his concept of 'Conservative').

So the nub of our sincere and deeply seated worry is that Trump would ditch the natural law/originalist doctrines when selecting judges.

After that is ditched, then we get international law incorporated into our legal precedent tree.   Continental Roman based laws or ANY law from any tradition.  The liberals have been pushing this doctrine for some time.  After foreign law has been incorporated into our precedence tree, it take decades to overturn because of Stare Decisis or fixed precedent-- Dread Scott / Roe v Wade.

Trump never seems to be briefed on the high points, like above.  Moreover, we dont have his list of judges, so that gives us pause.

Luttig, Thomas, Scalia, Douglas Ginsberg and others had these principles.  We remember the intense Senate battles that Reagan and Bush had in getting these guys through or Not.  Harriet Miers was also a debacle from W, so Roberts SEEMED like a miracle at the time.

It is therefore critical to have both a strong President AND Senate to maintain the real intent of the constitution.  Which brings in the thread of Trump helping tea party type Senate candidates (one just lost in IN, what will happen against McCain in Arizona?)

There may be additional issues from the 'Never Trump/Trump Realist' camps but this is an attempt to synthesize the key themes in this thread.




« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 01:22:06 am by LonestarDream »
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #657 on: May 07, 2016, 01:37:54 am »
You better reread post 661.

That is an unconditional reference to Jesus Christ mentioned.

You are flatly incorrect that God is not mentioned.

You hang onto that thought.  Not sure the Deists at the time would agree.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #658 on: May 07, 2016, 01:41:52 am »
Well that belief does have a weaker tendency, but it is great that we can agree on a discover-able natural law.  But the key point and concern for those of us in the 'Never Trump' or 'Trump Realist' camps is that selected judges believe both in original intent of the constitution and natural law as a basis for evaluating laws.

Not to be snarky, but I wonder how Trump would define 'Natural Law'  ( image of the jungle comes to mind, remember his concept of 'Conservative').

So the nub of our sincere and deeply seated worry is that Trump would ditch the natural law/originalist doctrines when selecting judges.

After that is ditched, then we get international law incorporated into our legal precedent tree.   Continental Roman based laws or ANY law from any tradition.  The liberals have been pushing this doctrine for some time.  After foreign law has been incorporated into our precedence tree, it take decades to overturn because of Stare Decisis or fixed precedent-- Dread Scott / Roe v Wade.

Trump never seems to be briefed on the high points, like above.  Moreover, we dont have his list of judges, so that gives us pause.

Luttig, Thomas, Scalia, Douglas Ginsberg and others had these principles.  We remember the intense Senate battles that Reagan and Bush had in getting these guys through or Not.  Harriet Miers was also a debacle from W, so Roberts SEEMED like a miracle at the time.

It is therefore critical to have both a strong President AND Senate to maintain the real intent of the constitution.  Which brings in the thread of Trump helping tea party type Senate candidates (one just lost in IN, what will happen against McCain in Arizona?)

There may be additional issues from the 'Never Trump/Trump Realist' camps but this is an attempt to synthesize the key themes in this thread.

Would love to continue, but I think we've led this thread astray far enough.  I sense we'll have a number of opportunities to revisit the Constitution.    :beer:
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline LonestarDream

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #659 on: May 07, 2016, 02:03:45 am »
Would love to continue, but I think we've led this thread astray far enough.  I sense we'll have a number of opportunities to revisit the Constitution.    :beer:

Think we have brought some some unstated themes together. 
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Offline LonestarDream

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #660 on: May 07, 2016, 02:12:38 am »
Exactly.  To say 'loser lindsey' is redundant .  Trump did not need to respond at all.



Or if he did respond, do it without the ad-hominem attack.  Like 'Perry, Carson and Christie are all united behind my campaign and the chair has asked the rest to as well, given that we all signed the pledge'.

This is just fodder for the never trump camp.
 
I don't defend Lindsey Graham, but this kind of childishness makes Trump look like a sore winner.  He can't rise above anything.

I'm more embarassed by this MOFO everyday.
(?) Trump Realist    (*) Trump believer   (?) Never Trump,   Which are you ?

Offline wolfcreek

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #661 on: May 07, 2016, 03:48:07 pm »
It's all over his business dealings.  Come on, you know that, Wolfcreek.

I'm not the one concerned over his POLITICAL record. There is no way to compare the two.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 03:48:40 pm by wolfcreek »

Offline wolfcreek

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #662 on: May 07, 2016, 03:50:36 pm »
I don't defend Lindsey Graham, but this kind of childishness makes Trump look like a sore winner.  He can't rise above anything.

I'm more embarassed by this MOFO everyday.

Being embarrassed over someone you don't even support sounds like you haven't made up your mind.


Offline sinkspur

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #663 on: May 07, 2016, 04:03:10 pm »
Being embarrassed over someone you don't even support sounds like you haven't made up your mind.

Oh, I have.  It's just that he's associated with my old party and I hate it. 

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

A-Lert

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #664 on: May 07, 2016, 08:13:22 pm »
Oh, I have.  It's just that he's associated with my old party and I hate it.

The party of "MOFOs" as you put it?

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #665 on: May 07, 2016, 08:18:40 pm »
Oh, I have.  It's just that he's associated with my old party and I hate it.

I could not care less for party. It's that the SOB is wrapped in the Conservative mantle that goads me. Call it what you will, but this is not, by any definition, Conservatism.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 08:19:10 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #666 on: May 07, 2016, 08:21:53 pm »
Lindsey Graham is history.  If he were a lion, he'd be banished and hyenas would eat him alive.

But alas, he's merely a GOPe Queen.

...and right now apparently Trump is the GOPe King.  Looks like our prom King and Queen deserve each other!   :silly:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

A-Lert

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #667 on: May 07, 2016, 08:54:35 pm »
...and right now apparently Trump is the GOPe King.  Looks like our prom King and Queen deserve each other!   :silly:

Hopefully the "King" can straight-en out the Republican party.

Offline wolfcreek

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #668 on: May 08, 2016, 02:28:28 am »
Oh, I have.  It's just that he's associated with my old party and I hate it.
 

IMO, he can only bring renewed credibility to the party. They haven't shown much over the last few years.

A-Lert

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #669 on: May 08, 2016, 02:30:37 am »
 

IMO, he can only bring renewed credibility to the party. They haven't shown much over the last few years.

BULLSEYE!

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #670 on: May 08, 2016, 02:33:40 am »
 

IMO, he can only bring renewed credibility to the party. They haven't shown much over the last few years.

Really? A consummate liar, a big government liberal, anti-1st amendment, in favor of raising taxes on all imported goods, raising taxes on job creators, defaulting on the debt, and insulting his way to the presidency.

Trump is unfit for the presidency.  Period.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #671 on: May 08, 2016, 02:38:26 am »
Really? A consummate liar, a big government liberal, anti-1st amendment, in favor of raising taxes on all imported goods, raising taxes on job creators, defaulting on the debt, and insulting his way to the presidency.

Trump is unfit for the presidency.  Period.

You forgot number one one my hit parade (using the EPA to the fullest extent of the law to enforce the renewable fuels mandate)!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 02:40:50 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

A-Lert

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #672 on: May 08, 2016, 02:40:12 am »
Really? A consummate liar, a big government liberal, anti-1st amendment, in favor of raising taxes on all imported goods, raising taxes on job creators, defaulting on the debt, and insulting his way to the presidency.

Trump is unfit for the presidency.  Period.

 :bsflag:

Offline austingirl

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #673 on: May 08, 2016, 02:42:01 am »
Now Trump is rethinking raising taxes on the middle class-he can see that happening.  Deceptive Donald. Credibility??  :silly:
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Online Bigun

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Re: Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race
« Reply #674 on: May 08, 2016, 02:52:01 am »
Now Trump is rethinking raising taxes on the middle class-he can see that happening.  Deceptive Donald. Credibility??  :silly:

Try this one on for size. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/07/us/politics/donald-trumps-idea-to-cut-national-debt-get-creditors-to-accept-less.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien