Ted Cruz drops out of presidential race

[roamer_1]

At about 5:15 into the video:

...this blessed land was set apart in a special way. Men and women who came to this land not in search of gold but of god.

There are many other references to Reagan invoking God that can be seen by searching 'Reagan national prayer speech' in youtube.

What a magnificent speech. How I long for such as this again.

[wolfcreek]

Trump is probably the easiest candidate to vet ever. How he has governed himself in his lifetime is all I need to know.

Economically, seems it would behoove this country to follow his lead.

[MACVSOG68]

roamer_1 wrote"

Wow.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...  -United States Declaration of Independence


Government is to PROTECT our rights, not regulate them.

I think you missed my point.  I agree with that completely.  But governments have not always protected those rights, whether it was a Judeo-Christian based government or not.  As I've said, you can ignore history, but it's still there.  We can learn from it though.

As for the rest of your post, the religious right can go in any direction they choose.  In the end, most will vote to keep Hillary out of office; some won't.  As has been said here before, even no choice is a choice. 

[LonestarDream]

I simply want to ensure that there's a always a place for peaceful religious thought, words and deeds, and that consistent with the Constitution, our laws neither interfere with nor incorporate those beliefs into our legal structure.

Glad you clarified that.  Your prior post implied acceptance of the current attacks on faith and practiced religion.  Even Trump seems to be 'For Christmas'.  One of his consistent, clear positions.


The constitution sits on top of The Declaration.  Abolitionists were deeply faithful Christians that came up short during formation of the Federal Government.  Paid a huge price of 700K + dead Americans out of a population of ~ 26 million a century later.

Out of respect for the board, not going to get into merits of any particular religion.

But there should be no doubt our rights flow directly from Natural Law from our 'Creater' broadly defined, liberty and property rights.

Take away these elements and we end up like Europe or London-- where there is no objective measure any 'positive' law.

At least they are using their former great Cathedrals as discoteks now....

 
 

[A-Lert]

P.S. Romney lost because he was a Mormon.

Romney lost because he didn't show any passion or enthusiasm for the office. He failed to instill excitement in voters. Milquetoast Mitt wasn't a good campaigner.

Texas GOP Starts To Rally Behind Trump As Nominee

By Patrick Svitek Texas Tribune • 22 hours ago

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Economically, seems it would behoove this country to follow his lead.

A lot of them did: Remember the housing bust. People were going bankrupt left right and center.

[roamer_1]

Economically, seems it would behoove this country to follow his lead.

Yes, because crony capitalists have so much to offer. /s

[Bigun]

I wish to make something perfectly clear to all on this forum who might still have misconceptions regarding my #nevertrump position.

My problem is not and never has been with Trump the man. There have always been and there always will be men like Trump on the Earth among us!

My problem is with the thoroughly degenerated state, both morally and educationally, of an American electorate which would allow for even momentary consideration of such a man as Donald J. Trump for high elective office in the first place.  And I have a question for my friends here who support him.

What exactly have you actually won if you do somehow manage to get him elected? 

[MACVSOG68]

Glad you clarified that.  Your prior post implied absence of faith and practiced religion.


The constitution sits on top of The Declaration.  Abolitionists were deeply faithful Christians that came up short during formation of the Federal Government.  Paid a huge price of 700K + dead Americans out of a population of ~ 26 million a century later.

Out of respect for the board, not going to get into merits of any particular religion.

But there should be no doubt our rights flow directly from Natural Law from our 'Creater' broadly defined, liberty and property rights.

Take away these elements and we end up like Europe or London-- where there is no objective measure any 'positive' law.

At least they are using their former Cathedrals as great discoteks now....

 
 

And for those millions who don't believe in a creator, they still nonetheless believe in the inviolability of rights just as the religious do. 

[wolfcreek]

Witness Trump's statement about discounting the debt, which move would tank the bond markets, to see why he has no more support than he does.

He could. Our own IRS does this regularly....getting pennies on the dollar.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/05/donald-trumps-right-the-us-could-partially-default-but-youre-not-supposed-to-say-so/#382d1e3e27aa

It's all about making a deal.

[LonestarDream]

And for those millions who don't believe in a creator, they still nonetheless believe in the inviolability of rights just as the religious do.

Never understood the basis of that belief.  Seems arbitrary.

But am sincerely open to being convinced.

[roamer_1]

roamer_1 wrote"

I think you missed my point.  I agree with that completely.  But governments have not always protected those rights, whether it was a Judeo-Christian based government or not.  As I've said, you can ignore history, but it's still there.  We can learn from it though.

I am not denying history. That is why this government, viewed through a prism of Protestant Christianity, was founded as it was. No Protestant American wants the church involved in government. nor government involved in church.

That doesn't negate ethical mores however. There is no law at all without defining right and wrong. and that is inevitably a matter of ethics. Rejecting the Judeo-Christian Ethic for moral relativism will destroy us all. It is unsustainable.

As for the rest of your post, the religious right can go in any direction they choose.  In the end, most will vote to keep Hillary out of office; some won't.  As has been said here before, even no choice is a choice.

Yeah, all y'all have said all that before. Maybe one of these days you'll put up someone we can vote for.

[Mesaclone]

Glad you clarified that.  Your prior post implied acceptance of the current attacks on faith and practiced religion.  Even Trump seems to be 'For Christmas'.  One of his consistent, clear positions.


The constitution sits on top of The Declaration.  Abolitionists were deeply faithful Christians that came up short during formation of the Federal Government.  Paid a huge price of 700K + dead Americans out of a population of ~ 26 million a century later.

Out of respect for the board, not going to get into merits of any particular religion.

But there should be no doubt our rights flow directly from Natural Law from our 'Creater' broadly defined, liberty and property rights.

Take away these elements and we end up like Europe or London-- where there is no objective measure any 'positive' law.

At least they are using their former great Cathedrals as discoteks now....

 
 

No, the Constitution was the distillation of Classical Liberal thought.

It did not "rest" on the Declaration of Independence, being wholly different in purpose and conception. It drew the concepts of Natural Law and Utiliatariansim from the ideas of men like Locke, Malthus and even Adam Smith. As MAC made clear, the founders wanted the freedom to practice religion to be entirely protected...equally so...they did not want religious fervor or institutions to inordinately influence governance. They did not found a Judeo-Christian nation, on the contrary, they deliberately formed a nation in which all religions were left to indivdual matters of conscience...and a nation that was free for of religious interference in governmental rule.

As for the foundation of Western Ethics, and the thoughts of the Founders. You need look no further than Plato, Socrates and Aristotle...this is where our ethics are drawn, even men like Augustine and Eusebius drew from these great men to frame their apologetics.

[LonestarDream]

Essentially saying the same.  Certainly did rest on The Declaration in terms of intent and chronology.

No, the Constitution was the distillation of Classical Liberal thought.

It did not "rest" on the Declaration of Independence, being wholly different in purpose and conception. It drew the concepts of Natural Law and Utiliatariansim from the ideas of men like Locke, Malthus and even Adam Smith. As MAC made clear, the founders wanted the freedom to practice religion to be entirely protected...equally so...they did not want religious fervor or institutions to inordinately influence governance. They did not found a Judeo-Christian nation, on the contrary, they deliberately formed a nation in which all religions were left to indivdual matters of conscience...and a nation that was free for of religious interference in governmental rule.

[debrawiest]

I wish to make something perfectly clear to all on this forum who might still have misconceptions regarding my #nevertrump position.

My problem is not and never has been with Trump the man. There have always been and there always will be men like Trump on the Earth among us!

My problem is with the thoroughly degenerated state, both morally and educationally, of an American electorate which would allow for even momentary consideration of such a man as Donald J. Trump for high elective office in the first place.  And I have a question for my friends here who support him.

What exactly have you actually won if you do somehow manage to get him elected?

Exactly!

[Mesaclone]

Exactly!

1) Vast improvement in our foreign policy and military strength.
2) A border that means something.
3) Supreme Court Justices in the Scalia mold.
4) Better trade agreements.
5) Lower Corporate taxes.

That just a few of the things I expect will be accomplished...but they are, admittedly, of huge importance.

[DCPatriot]

Given the ECONOMY being the number 1 issue in most polls and Trump promising to fix it, you'd think he would have more support.

You'd think.

I'm hoping that once Trump leaks out possible favorites for Cabinet and Foreign Policy wonks on his team, that more support will be forthcoming.

But remember again, it's SMALL business the runs this country.  And they've been smothered.  It's THEM that are standing in line for hours to see and listen to Donald Trump.

I just hope Trump gives real Conservatives a place next to him at the table.

[wolfcreek]

I wish to make something perfectly clear to all on this forum who might still have misconceptions regarding my #nevertrump position.

 

What exactly have you actually won if you do somehow manage to get him elected?

The absence of Hillary R. Clinton from the WH.

To me, it's one hell of a prize.

[wolfcreek]

You'd think.

I'm hoping that once Trump leaks out possible favorites for Cabinet and Foreign Policy wonks on his team, that more support will be forthcoming.

But remember again, it's SMALL business the runs this country.  And they've been smothered.  It's THEM that are standing in line for hours to see and listen to Donald Trump.

I just hope Trump gives real Conservatives a place next to him at the table.

I'm one of those business owners [though I was for Cruz in the beginning] and I believe he will have Conservatives in the mix because he knows that would help unite our side.

[LonestarDream]

Great discussion.  Have not been to have a meaningful thread like that in over 10+ years at TOS.

Speaking of History, do you or the board know of any good books on the Republic of Venice that went from 800 - 1800.  Not even the UK can claim that , they had Cromwell and other messes...

Tough to find good source in English on this republic other than wiki.

You are too kind my friend!  And yes, the anger on both sides is still on high simmer, moving toward a boil on a few threads.  It will eventually pass...   Just hang on for the ride. 

[sinkspur]

You'd think.

I'm hoping that once Trump leaks out possible favorites for Cabinet and Foreign Policy wonks on his team, that more support will be forthcoming.

But remember again, it's SMALL business the runs this country.  And they've been smothered.  It's THEM that are standing in line for hours to see and listen to Donald Trump.

I just hope Trump gives real Conservatives a place next to him at the table.

What is Trump going to do for small business?

Just yesterday, he said that the taxes on upper income Americans will "have to go up."  Most small businesses do not incorporate, so the owners pay taxes as individuals.

Guess who gets slammed if their taxes "have to go up"? 

How is that a help to a small businessman?

[DCPatriot]

Umm no, as a self-employed entrepreneur myself I do not "govern",  I LEAD.    In Trumps case he is more the figure head than a leader.  He is involved in far too many things to provide any real leadership.  His involvement is typically using his name to attract investors in a project.

Let me 'splain, Lucy!

It's common knowledge that he's the hardest working man in any room.  And the nicest.  Diplomacy is just as important as any Master's Degree in business.

His empire didn't get to the level it is today, by itself,... where hand-selected people do his bidding not being cross-checked.  He worked 18 days to build that.

It's called "Governing".

[MACVSOG68]

Never understood the basis of that belief.  Seems arbitrary.

But am sincerely open to being convinced.

It's not that difficult for anyone to believe that as human beings, we have rights that supersede any constitution or government created by man.  It can delve into metaphysical debate, but one that concludes that we have human rights simply by virtue of being human. 

[MACVSOG68]

Incredibly well stated, Mac. You are a true role model for the rest of us in both your reasoning and civility. My gratitude is yours, sir!

Thank you.  ^-^

[sinkspur]

Let me 'splain, Lucy!

It's common knowledge that he's the hardest working man in any room.  And the nicest.  Diplomacy is just as important as any Master's Degree in business.

His empire didn't get to the level it is today, by itself,... where hand-selected people do his bidding not being cross-checked. He worked 18 days to build that.

It's called "Governing".

Yeah.  We know how intensely Trump cross checks.

Like Paul Manafort, who has business ties to the Kremlin while his boss is about to get CIA intelligence briefings (what could go wrong?) and that Mnuchin character as his finance director, who worked for Goldman Sachs for 17 years and ran a hedge fund for George Soros (great friend of Republicans).