Author Topic: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks  (Read 2530 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-nomination-gop-crisis-2016-5

The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks

Josh Barro
 
2h


Donald Trump is going to be the Republican nominee for president, and this alarms ideological conservatives for several reasons:

1. They think he will lose badly to Hillary Clinton, perhaps so badly that Republicans lose control of both houses of Congress.

2. They are afraid that he will damage the brand of the Republican Party, making it harder to win future elections.

3. They believe that he lacks the temperament and character to serve as president.

These are all good reasons to be alarmed, but there is also a fourth reason for alarm that is perhaps the most alarming of all for conservatives: His nomination could signal the death of orthodox conservatism as one of the two main forces in American public policy, since he is running away with the nomination despite being exposed as a nonconservative.

Trump is the candidate who finally figured out how to exploit the fact that much of the Republican voter base does not share the policy preferences of the Republican donor class, and that it is therefore possible to win the nomination without being saddled with their unpopular policy preferences.

He will not be the last candidate to understand this.

Future candidates will seek to rebuild Trump's coalition, and they will follow in his footsteps by opposing free trade, promising to protect entitlements from cuts, questioning the value of America's commitment to military alliances, and shrugging at social changes like the growing acceptance of transgender people.

All three of the supposed "legs" of the Republican coalition stool — libertarian economics, social conservatism, and militarism — are at risk from Trump and the populist-imitator candidates he will spawn.

But it gets worse.

It is easy to find examples of parties where ideologically orthodox members felt sold out by moderate leaders who softened party platforms. Think of Tony Blair in the UK or Dwight Eisenhower in the US.

But at least those moderate leaders tend to be broadly popular with the public and to win elections. That allows those ideologically orthodox party members to get half a loaf — in the form of implementation of a watered-down version of a party platform.

Trump has somehow found a way to throw away the ideologically extreme ideas that orthodox conservatives cared about while actually making the party less popular. His nomination is a recipe for conservatives to sell out and lose anyway.

There is a missed opportunity for the Republican Party hiding somewhere within this train wreck. Nonwhite voters are much more likely than white voters to tell pollsters that they favor a larger government providing more services, so some version of the Trump economic agenda should actually help Republicans do better with more diverse voters, who have long been turned off by Republican antigovernment rhetoric.

But because Trump has swapped out calls for Social Security privatization for overt appeals to racism, he won't be able to do that. But maybe — maybe — some future Trump imitator could find a way to keep the broadly popular parts of his platform while dropping the ones that have caused him to rack up the highest "very unfavorable" ratings of any party nominee since the start of the data in 1980.

But do not hold your breath for any faction of the Republican Party to take that lesson from their impending, devastating loss. Instead, three different factions will each have their own story of why Republicans lost the 2016 election — and each of them will be wrong.

Ted Cruz and his allies will say that the loss was the predictable result of failure to nominate a true conservative. Faced with two essentially similar candidates like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, conservatives chose to stay home. To win in 2020, they will say, Republicans must abandon moderation and the desire for "deals" and nominate a stalwart, no-compromise conservative like Cruz.

Establishment Republicans will say the problem is that the party let the clowns take over, and must return power to the adults in the room like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, instead of toxic candidates like Trump and Cruz. They will not address the problem that orthodox Republican policy prescriptions are unconvincing even to voters in the Republican primary, let alone the general electorate.

Trump and his fans will say that the Republican establishment sabotaged Trump by withholding their support, hoping they could quash his insurgency by manufacturing a wide loss to Hillary Clinton. They will not go away quietly.

This campaign has been compared to a number of television shows, including "Veep." But maybe the best comparison is "Seinfeld." After the Republicans lose, there will be no hugging and no learning. And that means the 2020 nominating campaign could be another circular firing squad similar to the one we are witnessing now.

You had better stock up on popcorn.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Chosen Daughter

  • For there is no respect of persons with God. Romans 10:12-13
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,890
  • Gender: Female
  • Ephesians 6:13 Stand Firm in the face of evil
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 02:21:02 am »
At this point I will say I am no longer Republican.  They tried to force feed us Romney.  Then McCain and now a flat out progressive liberal.  Reminds me of when my mother used to force the fork of liver into my mouth and I would choke.  It happened the same every time.  First FOX News would get the fork and put the liver on it.  Then they would keep coming at you for months with the bad meat.  Thinking that if they could keep you at the table long enough they could force it down your throat.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Chosen Daughter

  • For there is no respect of persons with God. Romans 10:12-13
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,890
  • Gender: Female
  • Ephesians 6:13 Stand Firm in the face of evil
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 02:29:36 am »
And I realized today.  I have never been a Republican.  They don't care about me or my family.  They gave us massive bailouts and HIB Visas,  Amnesties excusing themselves with the popular meme that illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans won't. They insult and they push and they do everything contrary to serving the American people.   They are greedy politicians who cater to the Trumps and the Gates and every corporation with their hands out.  They make secret deals in smoky stinking offices like Boehner.  Or on the golf course with Clinton or Obama.  Trump too!  Is there really a difference?  You get the same thing every time.  Something that really should be flushed down.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 02:30:34 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2016, 02:30:14 am »
#NeverTrump

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,134
  • Gender: Female
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2016, 02:51:58 am »
Actually, the crisis is in both parties.  We just lost our country.  America will no longer be the country as we now know it. Washington is beyond repair.  Our only hope now is a Convention of States, though I see it as very risky.  Hopefully we will be able to retain our conservative governors and hopefully seat more as well as placing more conservative state Congressmen.

#NeverTrump
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,233
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 10:53:32 am »
Actually, the crisis is in both parties.  We just lost our country.  America will no longer be the country as we now know it. Washington is beyond repair.  Our only hope now is a Convention of States, though I see it as very risky.  Hopefully we will be able to retain our conservative governors and hopefully seat more as well as placing more conservative state Congressmen.

#NeverTrump

Another constitutional convention could be disastrous. Remember that Obama was elected with a 51% majority, that means the next Constitutional Convention would be representing that same 51%. We'd end up with a liberal constitution, essentially. No checks on power whatsoever.

Offline MBB1984

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 853
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 12:23:30 pm »
Trump is a far superior candidate to Hillary Clinton period.

Offline RetBobbyMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,543
  • Gender: Male
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 12:42:16 pm »
The major problem with this article, is that is is still based on the premiss that the CURRENT two party system is the ONLY way for this country to function.  I would disagree.  Nothing in the constitution mandates a limitation to a TWO party system.  It only requires a majority for affirmation of votes in the Congress and in the Electoral College.

It is time for a new party to be born (or rather supported) based on conservative principles.  Maybe the Cruz supporters should migrate to the Conservative Party USA and shore up votes for its slate of candidates.  It is a false premiss to state that they can never win a MAJORITY of seats.  They don't need to.  If they were to win only 5 to 8 seats in the Senate, as an example, they would prohibit either the Dems or the Repubs from a majority and have a YUGE say in the process. A slightly larger number would have the same effect on the House.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,134
  • Gender: Female
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 12:43:51 pm »
Trump is a far superior candidate to Hillary Clinton period.

That's quite a blanket statement and that is the whole problem with Trump.  He has laid out no plans and has failed to speak on any issue in depth.  His candidacy is reliant upon attacking others and groups of people while giving people a list of things he'll do without going into any detail...just believe him.  In other words, he's a very liberal hollow drum. Secondly, he doesn't know the Constitution, nor does he know the functions of the three branches of government, especially the executive branch. Hillary knows how the government operates and functions; she's been a part of it.  So..we have a choice between a liberal criminal and a liberal narcissist.  I won't be voting for either one of them.

#NeverTrump
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,134
  • Gender: Female
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 12:44:55 pm »
Another constitutional convention could be disastrous. Remember that Obama was elected with a 51% majority, that means the next Constitutional Convention would be representing that same 51%. We'd end up with a liberal constitution, essentially. No checks on power whatsoever.

Calling a Convention of States is definitely risky.  Unfortunately we are now faced with electing a liberal criminal or a liberal narcissist who in essence would 'liberalize' or side step the Constitution anyways. One of the objectives of a Convention of States from a conservative standpoint is to propose amendments to the Constitution to curb federal power and its control over the states; certainly not to amend the entire Constitution. The risk of course is amending the Constitution beyond curbing federal power. The Convention of States would consist of our State legislators ... risky yes, but I don't see that we have any other choice. IMHO the longer we wait, the riskier it becomes.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,134
  • Gender: Female
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 01:02:48 pm »
The major problem with this article, is that is is still based on the premiss that the CURRENT two party system is the ONLY way for this country to function.  I would disagree.  Nothing in the constitution mandates a limitation to a TWO party system.  It only requires a majority for affirmation of votes in the Congress and in the Electoral College.

It is time for a new party to be born (or rather supported) based on conservative principles.  Maybe the Cruz supporters should migrate to the Conservative Party USA and shore up votes for its slate of candidates.  It is a false premiss to state that they can never win a MAJORITY of seats.  They don't need to.  If they were to win only 5 to 8 seats in the Senate, as an example, they would prohibit either the Dems or the Repubs from a majority and have a YUGE say in the process. A slightly larger number would have the same effect on the House.

There are two fairly large 3rd parties; the Constitution Party and the Libertarian Party.  With the way that our electoral system is structured it is nearly impossible for a 3rd party to win.  Yes, we could try to place members of 3rd parties in Congress, but keep in mind, one of the problems that Cruz encountered as vice chairman of the National Senatorial Committee is he was expected to support incumbents in primaries against conservative challengers. He refused and that is one reason why he is so despised.

I believe we really no longer have a two party system.  As Cruz pointed out, the leader in the Senate panders to the left every chance he gets so, there is no two-party system.  The House leadership isn't much better.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,233
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 02:03:57 pm »
the leader in the Senate panders to the left every chance he gets so, there is no two-party system. 

This is just empty talk radio pablum. The same idiotic nonsense that got us Trump in the first place. I typed up reasons why this is completely horseshit, but don't have the energy to again.

Offline RetBobbyMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,543
  • Gender: Male
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2016, 03:50:15 pm »
There are two fairly large 3rd parties; the Constitution Party and the Libertarian Party.  With the way that our electoral system is structured it is nearly impossible for a 3rd party to win.  Yes, we could try to place members of 3rd parties in Congress, but keep in mind, one of the problems that Cruz encountered as vice chairman of the National Senatorial Committee is he was expected to support incumbents in primaries against conservative challengers. He refused and that is one reason why he is so despised.

I believe we really no longer have a two party system.  As Cruz pointed out, the leader in the Senate panders to the left every chance he gets so, there is no two-party system.  The House leadership isn't much better.

As was my point, we need more of the 3rd Party(s) candidates (not independents) in Congress to wrest control from the Dems or Repubs (or uni-party).  At least that would alter the policy is DC.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline don-o

  • Worldview Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,280
  • FR Class of '98
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2016, 03:56:54 pm »
Another constitutional convention could be disastrous. Remember that Obama was elected with a 51% majority, that means the next Constitutional Convention would be representing that same 51%. We'd end up with a liberal constitution, essentially. No checks on power whatsoever.

Are you really THAT uninformed about the convention of states for proposing amendments actually IS?

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2016, 03:57:30 pm »
Trump is a far superior candidate to Hillary Clinton period.

Neither deserve the presidency. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

HAPPY2BME

  • Guest
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2016, 04:32:50 pm »
The crisis is only happening among the neocons.

Everyone else is having a revolution.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,134
  • Gender: Female
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2016, 04:41:54 pm »
As was my point, we need more of the 3rd Party(s) candidates (not independents) in Congress to wrest control from the Dems or Repubs (or uni-party).  At least that would alter the policy is DC.

I understand.  What I am saying is that incumbents are very will insulated. Washington is broken.  We cannot fix it.  The only way to make change is from the bottom up. 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Ghost Bear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Gender: Male
  • Not an actual picture of me
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2016, 04:46:32 pm »
The thing is...

Mr. Trump's candidacy has succeeded because he has said things that appeal to the people. For a long time the stance of the Republican party has been that what is good for business is good for America; but they have forgotten that America is the people, and what is good for business is not always good for the people. For example, cheap labor, whether in the form of illegal immigrants, H1B visas, or sending jobs overseas, may be great for business, but it is not great for the people who make up this country, and the people know this. It should be no surprise that the people jumped to vote for a candidate who seemed to finally be taking their side.

As another example, "America First" as a phrase has a really bad history, but most people don't know that (remember, "history" is barely taught in our schools anymore.) To the average person, it only makes sense that government policy should put "America First"; why should we, as a country, be promoting policies that benefit other countries over America? The average person doesn't understand the intricacies of trade policy, they just see the Chinese economy outperforming America; they don't understand the intricacies of global alliances and strategy, they just see America providing the bulk of military effort all over the world, and our allies in Europe and Asia providing token contributions at best.

The ultimate solution is to better educate the populace, but that would take 40+ years of effort before seeing positive results, if then. For now, I think it would be smarter for conservatives to more closely align themselves with policies that more obviously favor the country and the people, and not "big business" or foreign powers.
Let it burn.

Offline RetBobbyMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,543
  • Gender: Male
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2016, 11:16:08 pm »
I understand.  What I am saying is that incumbents are very will insulated. Washington is broken.  We cannot fix it.  The only way to make change is from the bottom up.

Exactly. We need a group of conservatives in the US Congress and well as state houses and governorships of some other party than Dems and Repubs. Another party is the only way to break the uniparty problems in our government, state or federal
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

geronl

  • Guest
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2016, 11:18:06 pm »
The GOP is dead.

I really do not care.

geronl

  • Guest
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2016, 11:19:15 pm »


The ultimate solution is to better educate the populace, but that would take 40+ years of effort before seeing positive results, if then. For now, I think it would be smarter for conservatives to more closely align themselves with policies that more obviously favor the country and the people, and not "big business" or foreign powers.

Trump is definitely not that guy.

geronl

  • Guest
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2016, 11:20:44 pm »
Trump is a far superior candidate to Hillary Clinton period.

Child Raping Pimp Trump is a corrupt con-man from the bottom to the top.

Offline Ghost Bear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Gender: Male
  • Not an actual picture of me
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2016, 12:00:00 am »
Trump is definitely not that guy.

I agree, he definitely isn't that guy. But the point I was trying to make is that conservatives need to take some lessons from what worked to win Mr. Trump the support that he got, and use that to fine-tune the conservative message and make it more acceptable to the populace at large.
Let it burn.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,233
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2016, 12:15:30 am »
I agree, he definitely isn't that guy. But the point I was trying to make is that conservatives need to take some lessons from what worked to win Mr. Trump the support that he got, and use that to fine-tune the conservative message and make it more acceptable to the populace at large.

Trump lied, acted like a belligerent bleep towards real conservatives like Cruz and Walker, and acted like a braggart. For all this he was actually rewarded by the GOP electorate. If that is what it takes to win these days... no thanks.

Offline Ghost Bear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Gender: Male
  • Not an actual picture of me
Re: The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2016, 01:24:30 am »
Trump lied, acted like a belligerent bleep towards real conservatives like Cruz and Walker, and acted like a braggart. For all this he was actually rewarded by the GOP electorate. If that is what it takes to win these days... no thanks.

I wasn't referring to his style, but to some of his talking points. Stop talking about keeping the border open and giving amnesty to illegals, start talking about closing the border and enforcing existing law. Stop appearing to promote big business over the little guy. Things like that.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 01:25:11 am by Bear_in_RoseBear »
Let it burn.