“A Republic, if you can keep it.” Donald Trump and the Tyranny of the Mob…

[Mesaclone]

Trump called his supporters stupid when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose support

No, not at all. You just don't understand hyperbole. He used reduction ad absurdam...a time honored means of making a point. Only an idiot takes that literally, and then assumes those who do not take it literally are the real idiots.

[LadyLiberty]

Exactly -- that's what makes it so frustrating when you try to engage them on issues.  As soon as you try applying logic even to ask questions, you get a response that it virtually all emotion.  So there's really no place for disagreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_%28psychology%29

[Mesaclone]

I think that's fair.  However, a willful failure to approach one's beliefs critically is not a sign of intellectualism, or curiosity.   It's not "stupid", but the present circumstances it is something much darker.   

It's a bit like rooting for a sports team.  Loyalty to the team,  and defensiveness toward others fans' criticism,  keeps one from recognizing those flaws which could lead to disaster.   "Fan" of course, is derived from "fanatic",  and Cruzians tend to exhibit traits of fanaticism.   And both the worlds of sports and politics have occasionally been marred by mob violence.

Good gravy, man!!!

You've just PERFECTLY described the Anti-Trump movement.

[Jazzhead]

Trump called his supporters stupid when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose support

I'd agree, although it may be more precise to say that he was boasting of himself as his supporters' shepherd.   

He thinks his supporters are sheep, not stupid.  But of course that begs the question - is it stupid to be a sheep? 

[A-Lert]

Trump called his supporters stupid when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose support

What is it about hyperbole and figures of speech  that you don't understand?

[Hank Rearden]

It is not only the dumbing down of the Republic, but a celebration of dumbing it down.

After the first year or two of using the guillotine on royalty and the upper middle class, the peasants figure out they went too far. By then, it's too late.

[Mesaclone]

I'd agree, although it may be more precise to say that he was boasting of himself as his supporters' shepherd.   

He thinks his supporters are sheep, not stupid.  But of course that begs the question - is it stupid to be a sheep?

Or...alternately. He understands that he is the ONLY one effectively voicing the anger and frustration his supporters feel over the corruption and failure that riddle both our party and our government. As such, he knows he has the loyalty of those supporters.

[A-Lert]

I'd agree, although it may be more precise to say that he was boasting of himself as his supporters' shepherd.   

He thinks his supporters are sheep, not stupid.  But of course that begs the question - is it stupid to be a sheep?

Since you are claiming to know what Trump thinks, please tell us what he thinks of the claims that Hillary is a friend.

[Jazzhead]

Good gravy, man!!!

You've just PERFECTLY described the Anti-Trump movement.

You changed my words while retaining them in quotes under my attribution.  That's dishonest.   

[driftdiver]

And Hitler was a Christian. What's your point?


Here's my point. Pol Pot has as much in common with Trump as Hitler does with Cruz...which in both cases, is nuthin'. So clearly, throwing out a name like Pol Pot is intellectually dishonest, and a rather pathetic way to assert an argument. The Anti-Trumps in this thread are going on and on about how education is looked down on by Trump...and then they make dumbass comparisons like the one I cite here. Hypocrites of the first order.

Pol Pot and all those others initially gained power through the cult of personality.    Trumps supporters don't care what he does and they'll attack anyone who dares to utter a negative word.   Just like you've done here.

Trump talks at a 4th grade level.  Its not because he's dumb.

BTW, I'm not a "dumbass" or a "hypocrite".  I just don't think Trump is a good choice.   But thanks for being the first poster here to call me names because you were too ignorant to stop and think.

[LMAO]

Lol...

Two things will manifest themselves over time assuming Trump wins the presidency

Either those of us who don't support Trump will be proven right about him and the results of us being right will be a disaster for years to come

Or

We will be proven wrong and will be compelled to back his re election and become his biggest defenders at that point while the egg runs down our faces

[truth_seeker]

What bothers me the most is the open disdain Trump and so many of his supporters (not all) seem to have for reasoned argument, and particularly, the vehemence with which some of them attack those who are educated.  One thing I learned in the military is that it is horribly wrong to look down on someone because they lack education -  some of my enlisted Marines were among the sharpest, highest-quality individuals I've ever known.   But it is perhaps even worse to look down on someone precisely because they are educated.  They seem to hate the "fancy-talking elites" with a true passion, as if being able to write a coherent paragraph is evidence of some moral failing.  It is not only the dumbing down of the Republic, but a celebration of dumbing it down.

It is not clear what your point is, but one of the main put-downs of Trump's supporters, is that they are low information, and uneducated.

I can name several that have self-exiled themselves from this site, after being here for years. They grew tired of the put downs. That includes one with a PhD, one a doctor, and others with multiple degrees and professional qualifications.

Cruz and Kasich are now the candidates of the elites, the banks, the political pros, like Rove etc.

[Mesaclone]

You changed my words while retaining them in quotes under my attribution.  That's dishonest.

Nope. It would only be dishonest if I did it without making it clear what I was doing. Thus the bolded word that was changed. So you may dislike it, but it was quite honest and I was quite clear that I changed the name Trump to Cruz. And the larger point stands, that the description is the most apt one yet on this site for the Anti-Trump crowd.

[truth_seeker]

Exactly -- that's what makes it so frustrating when you try to engage them on issues.  As soon as you try applying logic even to ask questions, you get a response that it virtually all emotion.  So there's really no place for disagreement.

Engage me on an issue. I suggest any or all of the following:

1. Suspending muslim immigration like Trump said, pending better understanding of the situation. San Bernardino, 14 Dead.

2. Better border security like Trump said, so women in San Francisco, sanctuary city, are not gunned down by people that were deported multiple times. One Dead.

3. Abortion exceptions for rape, incest. Cruz expects women to vote for him, yet if they are raped he wants it to be illegal for them to abort the product of rape.

Plenty of Californians will take Trump's side, trust me. (Carly is thus far, a two time loser in politics, and believed by many vocal folks, to have laid off tens of thousands, before she got herself canned at HP--California.)

Engage away.

[Mesaclone]

Pol Pot and all those others initially gained power through the cult of personality.    Trumps supporters don't care what he does and they'll attack anyone who dares to utter a negative word.   Just like you've done here.

Trump talks at a 4th grade level.  Its not because he's dumb.

BTW, I'm not a "dumbass" or a "hypocrite".  I just don't think Trump is a good choice.   But thanks for being the first poster here to call me names because you were too ignorant to stop and think.

You must be joking. After you've compared us to the followers of Pol Pot, and stated that Trump talks down to us at a 4th grade level...the obvious implication being that he does this so we can understand him....and then you complain about name calling? You got a lot of gall.

The continuous stream of Anti-Trump board members proclaiming that Trump followers are dupes, ignorant and angry, blinded by devotion and generally delusional is never ending on the board. So we know all about name calling. We are the ones ATTEMPTING to bring an actual discussion of ACTUAL issues to the board...heck, you folks have chased most of the pro-Trump posters off the board and into the TCG group, and you haven't done it by being polite.

[musiclady]

Hitler was NOT a Christian. He was into pagan ancestor worship and considered Christianity a "gutter religion".

The argument that Hitler was a Christian is a leftist lie.

Consider the source..........

[Mesaclone]

The argument that Hitler was a Christian is a leftist lie.

Consider the source..........

OK. Which part of what I said was incorrect.
1) The part where I said he was baptized in the Catholic Church.
2) The part where I said he was confirmed in the Catholic Church.
3) Hitler repeatedly called for "positive" Christianity in numerous speeches.

I'll await your refutation...or is this just another of your "make it up" and hope its right moments.

[sinkspur]

OK. Which part of what I said was incorrect.
1) The part where I said he was baptized in the Catholic Church.
2) The part where I said he was confirmed in the Catholic Church.
3) Hitler repeatedly called for "positive" Christianity in numerous speeches.

I'll await your refutation...or is this just another of your "make it up" and hope its right moments.

The religious views of Adolf Hitler are a matter of debate, with a consensus of scholars agreeing that Hitler was not a Christian and was skeptical of religion generally. According to Alan Bullock, Hitler was a rationalist and materialist "who believed neither in God nor in conscience".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

[Mesaclone]

"The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Socialist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord.  These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles."

What do you folks think of this Ted Cruz quote?

[Mesaclone]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

And your citation agrees with me as expected...I said later in life he was not a Christian. He was throughout his youth (baptism, confirmation, in WWI)...so yes, he WAS a Christian.  AS I asserted. AND into his early years as Fuhrer, he continued to call for...again as I said..."positive" Christianity. So, you've failed utterly to refute all 3 points I made and highlighted above...you did little more than cite something that is irrelevant as it goes to his later/ultimate perspective on religion, not his earlier Christianity.

[libertybele]

"The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Socialist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord.  These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles."

What do you folks think of this Ted Cruz quote?

...Just right off the bat ...better than anything Trump has stated!

[Chosen Daughter]

And Hitler was a Christian. What's your point?


Here's my point. Pol Pot has as much in common with Trump as Hitler does with Cruz...which in both cases, is nuthin'. So clearly, throwing out a name like Pol Pot is intellectually dishonest, and a rather pathetic way to assert an argument. The Anti-Trumps in this thread are going on and on about how education is looked down on by Trump...and then they make dumbass comparisons like the one I cite here. Hypocrites of the first order.

Hitler was not a Christian.  Where did you get that?  Trump isn't a Christian either

“Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldn’t, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar. We are entering into a conception of the world that will be a sunny era, an era of tolerance.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 343-344

“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 62

“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 51

[Mesaclone]

Hitler was not a Christian.  Where did you get that?  Trump isn't a Christian either

“Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldn’t, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar. We are entering into a conception of the world that will be a sunny era, an era of tolerance.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 343-344

“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 62

“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 51

In his youth, and early adulthood...he was. Catholic, to be precise.

[ArneFufkin]

The Trump get-together in Indianapolis looks like a rousing success:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLvGnro4Cgw

[sinkspur]

And your citation agrees with me as expected...I said later in life he was not a Christian. He was throughout his youth (baptism, confirmation, in WWI)...so yes, he WAS a Christian.  AS I asserted. AND into his early years as Fuhrer, he continued to call for...again as I said..."positive" Christianity. So, you've failed utterly to refute all 3 points I made and highlighted above...you did little more than cite something that is irrelevant as it goes to his later/ultimate perspective on religion, not his earlier Christianity.

He was not a Christian. Lots of Catholics get baptized, confirmed and then never do anything else.   So I  DID refute your SWAG from an actual source.  A source that proves Hitler, in his influential time as leader, was anti-Christianity.

  All we have from you are your assertions.