Author Topic: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want  (Read 32909 times)

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Offline ABX

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2016, 03:16:02 pm »
You don't present Trump's policies.  You present twisted fantasies.  I've no desire to engage you in those.

That's exactly what Sink did here, present his policy based on his own words today. That wasn't fantasy.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2016, 03:17:50 pm »
Uh, it's a video of Trump. I didn't alter it in any way.

RIV is a hit-and-run artist.  She refuses to discuss any issue, but screams at anyone who does.

You can post video of Trump and she'll insist you're "twisting" what he himself said.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2016, 03:21:52 pm »
Trump has no core beliefs. He could say the opposite thing tomorrow and not one of his supporters would think ill of him for it. His entire history is one of saying whatever he thinks he needs to say to gain the support of whoever he thinks is listening.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2016, 03:22:42 pm »
Ben Shapiro ‏@benshapiro  11m11 minutes ago

Aren't Trump people insulted by how stupid Trump thinks they are? Or are they too stupid to get it?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2016, 03:24:53 pm »
"Everything is negotiable"

"I am capable of becoming anything I want"

Not a conservative at all, he is a regular liberal Democrat

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2016, 03:27:12 pm »
Trumpism in a nutshell:
 
°•.
‏@timjcar

@benshapiro the thing is nobody gives a shit about traditional conservative values. We just want a candidate who is best for America
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2016, 03:28:09 pm »
And one of Trump's alt-right followers at Trumpbart:


Milo Yiannopoulos ✘
‏@Nero
Establishment conservatism has failed. And now it's lashing out at the newer, younger, cooler kids.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2016, 03:39:04 pm »
Are we seriously going to make transgender bathrooms a bedrock Republican issue in a campaign for the one political office that can do nothing about it -- the POTUS?    Are not our hands already filled to the brim with abortion and same-sex marriage?    :shrug:

I agree, RIV.   I have no objection to Trump's position on this issue.   But I think Republicans in general are going to have to get comfortable with the reality that Trump's a social liberal, like most Manhattan "sophisticates" are.   Some will have no problem with that, and some will.  The GOP coalition consists of both conservatives and libertarians.   
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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2016, 04:07:22 pm »
He anticipated the question, I will tell you.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2016, 04:17:07 pm »
Here is a very good example of the fatal flaw in straight libertarianism.   To allow freedom to one nutcase to pee in the bathroom of his choice, you must infringe on the freedom of the masses to pee in a place provided for their specific gender only.  Women don't want to pee in the same bathroom with strange men.  You can't have both.  Freedom for the abnormal freakshow becomes tyranny to everyone else.  Comfort for one becomes discomfort for millions.

Freedom and equality means everyone has the same God-given rights.  They have freedom to make their case with speech and press, to have due process, to practice their religious duties before God according to their own conscience.   They are not entitled to win every argument.  And if God did not give them female parts they don't have a right to pee in the ladies room.

Exactly. People can evade reality, but not its consequences.

I can pretend to be a golden retriever or a school bus, but in a free society, the state cannot compel others to share my delusions nor expose them to the consequences of those delusions.   
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline musiclady

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2016, 04:20:06 pm »
Here is a very good example of the fatal flaw in straight libertarianism.   To allow freedom to one nutcase to pee in the bathroom of his choice, you must infringe on the freedom of the masses to pee in a place provided for their specific gender only.  Women don't want to pee in the same bathroom with strange men.  You can't have both.  Freedom for the abnormal freakshow becomes tyranny to everyone else.  Comfort for one becomes discomfort for millions.

Freedom and equality means everyone has the same God-given rights.  They have freedom to make their case with speech and press, to have due process, to practice their religious duties before God according to their own conscience.   They are not entitled to win every argument.  And if God did not give them female parts they don't have a right to pee in the ladies room.

Well said!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Bigun

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2016, 04:22:08 pm »
Here is a very good example of the fatal flaw in straight libertarianism.   To allow freedom to one nutcase to pee in the bathroom of his choice, you must infringe on the freedom of the masses to pee in a place provided for their specific gender only.  Women don't want to pee in the same bathroom with strange men.  You can't have both.  Freedom for the abnormal freakshow becomes tyranny to everyone else.  Comfort for one becomes discomfort for millions.

Freedom and equality means everyone has the same God-given rights.  They have freedom to make their case with speech and press, to have due process, to practice their religious duties before God according to their own conscience.   They are not entitled to win every argument.  And if God did not give them female parts they don't have a right to pee in the ladies room.

 :amen:  Well said! Well said indeed!  :beer:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2016, 04:23:12 pm »
Trump has no core beliefs. He could say the opposite thing tomorrow and not one of his supporters would think ill of him for it. His entire history is one of saying whatever he thinks he needs to say to gain the support of whoever he thinks is listening.

The number of people still making excuses for his forked tongue is astounding.

It truly doesn't matter what kind of perversion he says he supports.  His followers reflexive response is to attack those who are simply stating what he said, and not actually rethink their support of him.

I truly have never seen anything like this on the R side of the aisle.  Dem, yes, but never, ever Republican.....

THIS is the sign that America is failing and will continue to descend.   

The small minority of Americans who demand integrity of its leaders seems to be diminishing by the day.  I don't see how we recover from the state we're in if all the Dems and a third of the Republicans don't give a rip who a politician is or what he/she does.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 04:25:53 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2016, 04:28:17 pm »
Some FReepers seem to be in shock. lol.

Jim Rob now has a choice, will he embrace the real liberal Donnie. Can a man who can't keep pervs out of the girls toilet keep illegals out of the country...  :silly: :silly:
Yep... pretty amazing how Trumpette Nation over in freeperland is trying to spin this.

Offline ABX

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2016, 04:33:53 pm »
Here is a very good example of the fatal flaw in straight libertarianism.   To allow freedom to one nutcase to pee in the bathroom of his choice, you must infringe on the freedom of the masses to pee in a place provided for their specific gender only.  Women don't want to pee in the same bathroom with strange men.  You can't have both.  Freedom for the abnormal freakshow becomes tyranny to everyone else.  Comfort for one becomes discomfort for millions.

Freedom and equality means everyone has the same God-given rights.  They have freedom to make their case with speech and press, to have due process, to practice their religious duties before God according to their own conscience.   They are not entitled to win every argument.  And if God did not give them female parts they don't have a right to pee in the ladies room.

Just because it was brought up, I think the Libertarian case would be along the lines of, it isn't the government's business in the first place. That would be up to the specific business to make the decision for their business, or, at most, the local municipality.  The government's involvement would only start if someone actually interfered with the rights of another (peering, molestation, recording, etc)- and in that case, it wouldn't regard anyone's sex, identity, or orientation- that crossing the line of another's rights would be opposed even if it was a perv woman in a women's bathroom- it doesn't need to be a tranny man.

Now back to the flip flop at hand.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2016, 04:37:39 pm »
hit-and-run . 

If you're going to use my words as your own, shouldn't you first ask?   :nono:
 

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2016, 04:39:21 pm »
It started with Bill Clinton.  When he was given a pass on his libertinism in the Oval Office, it was inevitable that we would end up with a thrice-married serial adulterer with no core principles or values running for the highest office in the land.

Trump is gutter trash, yet he's made a living selling swill to people who will believe every slick marketing gimmick.  Now that he's hooked his marks, they'll move with him as he trends left on every position.

The sad thing is, his supporters were formerly conservative Republicans who have thrown all previous convictions over the side in the service of a carnival barker who appeals to their basest emotions.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2016, 04:39:37 pm »
Here is a very good example of the fatal flaw in straight libertarianism.   To allow freedom to one nutcase to pee in the bathroom of his choice, you must infringe on the freedom of the masses to pee in a place provided for their specific gender only.  Women don't want to pee in the same bathroom with strange men.  You can't have both.  Freedom for the abnormal freakshow becomes tyranny to everyone else.  Comfort for one becomes discomfort for millions.

Freedom and equality means everyone has the same God-given rights.  They have freedom to make their case with speech and press, to have due process, to practice their religious duties before God according to their own conscience.   They are not entitled to win every argument.  And if God did not give them female parts they don't have a right to pee in the ladies room.

Understood, but what about Trump's point, which I think is accurate,  that in the real world this simply isn't a problem?    I am quite unaware of women being molested in bathrooms by transgenders.  Are there truly examples of this?   

In my own life,  I can't say I've ever encountered a transgendered person.  On the other hand,  I know plenty of gays - they include family members, neighbors and work colleagues.   What aggravates me about the North Carolina law is its prohibition against communities from extending non-discrimination protection to sexual orientation.   That's protection that lots of people I know could truly use,  and if, say, the city of Charlotte wants to extend such protections, why should the state say it can't?   And yes, it angers me that this pernicious aspect of the law has been sold to the public by ginning up panic over a manufactured bathroom "crisis" with transgenders.   
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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2016, 04:40:20 pm »
Here is a very good example of the fatal flaw in straight libertarianism.   To allow freedom to one nutcase to pee in the bathroom of his choice, you must infringe on the freedom of the masses to pee in a place provided for their specific gender only.  Women don't want to pee in the same bathroom with strange men.  You can't have both.  Freedom for the abnormal freakshow becomes tyranny to everyone else.  Comfort for one becomes discomfort for millions.

Freedom and equality means everyone has the same God-given rights.  They have freedom to make their case with speech and press, to have due process, to practice their religious duties before God according to their own conscience.   They are not entitled to win every argument.  And if God did not give them female parts they don't have a right to pee in the ladies room.

Very well stated.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2016, 04:41:18 pm »
Just because it was brought up, I think the Libertarian case would be along the lines of, it isn't the government's business in the first place. That would be up to the specific business to make the decision for their business, or, at most, the local municipality.  The government's involvement would only start if someone actually interfered with the rights of another (peering, molestation, recording, etc)- and in that case, it wouldn't regard anyone's sex, identity, or orientation- that crossing the line of another's rights would be opposed even if it was a perv woman in a women's bathroom- it doesn't need to be a tranny man.

Makes sense to me.   :beer:
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2016, 04:44:28 pm »
Josh Barro ‏@jbarro  10m10 minutes ago

If Trump were governor of North Carolina, there'd be so much peeing, people of all genders would be bored of peeing.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline ABX

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2016, 04:45:26 pm »
Makes sense to me.   :beer:

The Libertarian position may even be more complex than that. Some like Austin Petersen (or Ron Paul) would argue it is a 10th Amendment issue left up to the states.  On the other extreme, you also have the Sovereign Citizen or Anarchist extreme leaning wing that wouldn't even let a local municipality decide.

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2016, 04:49:53 pm »
Of Course Donald Trump Is the Most Pro-Gay Republican Presidential Candidate
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/12/18/donald_trump_is_obviously_the_most_pro_gay_gop_candidate.html

HAPPY2BME

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2016, 04:53:22 pm »
http://time.com/3734626/gay-marriage-supreme-court-republicans/

More Than 300 Republicans Call on Supreme Court to Recognize Gay Marriage Nationally

THE FULL LIST

Signers include former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Sens. Susan Collins and Mark Kirk and Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker

More than 300 veteran Republican lawmakers, operatives and consultants have filed a friend of the court brief at the Supreme Court in support of same-sex marriage late Thursday.

The amicus brief, organized by former Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman, was filed for the four same-sex marriage cases the Court will hear on April 28 that could legalize the unions nationwide. In 2013, Mehlman marshaled a similar effort for the case that overturned California’s Proposition 8, which had banned same-sex marriage in the state.

Among the signatories are 23 current and former Republicans members of the House of Representatives and Senate and seven current and former Governors. Sens. Susan Collins and Mark Kirk have signed onto the brief, as has Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker and former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman. Other notables include former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal and billionaire GOP mega-donor David Koch.

The 2013 brief included 131 signatures, featured many former top aides to Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, including his general counsel and two senior advisors. The list has now grown to 303 signatories.

In an interview with TIME, Mehlman pointed to the growing national consensus and within the GOP on the issue. “There’s been an increase since the last time in public support for marriage equality across all ideological, racial, and political groups,” he said.

The brief makes a conservative case for the court to strike down same-sex marriage bans in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee, arguing they are “inconsistent with amici’s understanding of the properly limited role of government.”

“Although amici hold a broad spectrum of socially and politically conservative, moderate, and libertarian views, amici share the view that laws that bar same-sex couples from the institution of civil marriage, with all its attendant profoundly important rights and responsibilities, are inconsistent with the United States Constitution’s dual promises of equal protection and due process,” the brief states.

Some aides to Republican presidential candidates are hoping that if the Court’s rules in favor of the unions it will provide cover for their bosses, who are hoping to avoid talking about the issue. After the party’s 2012 electoral defeat, its autopsy found that gay rights issues are a gateway subject not just for LGBT voters, but also for young voters of all stripes. “We need to campaign among Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate we care about them, too,” the Growth and Opportunity Project report stated.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie both dropped opposition to same-sex unions in their state after court rulings forced their hand, but they remain personally opposed. After marriages began in his state in January, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush called for respect from all sides. “I hope that we can show respect for the good people on all sides of the gay and lesbian marriage issue — including couples making lifetime commitments to each other who are seeking greater legal protections and those of us who believe marriage is a sacrament and want to safeguard religious liberty,” he said.

More conservative Republicans may seek to cater to Iowa and South Carolina’s large evangelical primary blocks in order to attract votes, setting the stage for potential clashes. But the political ground is shifting. According to an NBC/Marist survey last month, roughly half of likely GOP caucus and primary voters in Iowa, South Carolina, and New Hampshire find opposition to same-sex marriage “mostly” or “totally” unacceptable.

Mehlman said he was not concerned that the Court’s ruling could prompt a backlash among conservative voters that might alienate moderates.

“Republicans traditionally have great respect for court decisions, particularly the Supreme Court,” he said. And pointing to rapid shifts in public opinion in states that have legalized same-sex marriage, he predicted Republicans wouldn’t drum up the base against the Court should it overturn the marriage bans. “The data shows that public acceptance increases very quickly, and very significantly.”

geronl

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Re: Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2016, 05:01:16 pm »
I agree, RIV.   I have no objection to Trump's position on this issue.   But I think Republicans in general are going to have to get comfortable with the reality that Trump's a social liberal, like most Manhattan "sophisticates" are.   Some will have no problem with that, and some will.  The GOP coalition consists of both conservatives and libertarians.   

Trump is 100% liberal. he is a Clintonite.

This will become very painfully obvious (about two years ago) to anyone with eyeballs.

and no Conservatives will have to get comfortable staying home and letting the liberal GOPers lose again. Because that is what will happen.