Author Topic: Natural-born mess: What would it take to kick Ted Cruz off the ballot? (Read 3526 times)

truth_seeker · « **Reply #25 on:** February 04, 2016, 07:22:25 pm »

Cruz is a very bad choice for the GOP nominee, for several reasons.

1. His "Natural Born Citizenship" is not definitive, as even Bigun stated a few days ago.

2. His issue positions are too far away from mainstream voters' views.

3. He is showing a propensity to fight dirty.

In large complex organization, airing one's differences in public is not considered good form. Yet Cruz insists on a reputation for such behavior.

To date no fellow Senators have supported him, so he must resort to clowns and entertainment professionals like Beck and Levin.

NavyCanDo · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2016, 07:30:57 pm »

Quote from: truth_seeker on February 04, 2016, 07:22:25 pm

Cruz is a very bad choice for the GOP nominee, for several reasons.

1. His "Natural Born Citizenship" is not definitive, as even Bigun stated a few days ago.

2. His issue positions are too far away from mainstream voters' views.

3. He is showing a propensity to fight dirty.

In large complex organization, airing one's differences in public is not considered good form. Yet Cruz insists on a reputation for such behavior.

To date no fellow Senators have supported him, so he must resort to clowns and entertainment professionals like Beck and Levin.

Careful, with that logic then, we should support Marco Rubio instead.

1. Born in the US
2. Appeals to mainstream voters. Very likable, and a young attractive Kennedy-like family.
3. No stories of him fighting dirty.

(and I do support Cruz and Rubio, and will be happy with either)

Bigun · « **Reply #27 on:** February 04, 2016, 07:54:26 pm »

Quote from: truth_seeker on February 04, 2016, 07:22:25 pm

Cruz is a very bad choice for the GOP nominee, for several reasons.

1. His "Natural Born Citizenship" is not definitive, as even Bigun stated a few days ago.

And Bigun also said that If Cruz is found ineligible then Rubio most certainly is ineligible. Donald Trump as well could be.

And the reason this is going to go exactly nowhere is that it would reek havoc with the entire Obama term if Cruz was ruled ineligible.

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2. His issue positions are too far away from mainstream voters' views.

Says who? Are you the fellow who get's to determine what is or is not main stream now?

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3. He is showing a propensity to fight dirty.

NO! He is just engaging in in politics the way it has always been done in this country albeit with modern means that did not exist even a few years ago.

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In large complex organization, airing one's differences in public is not considered good form. Yet Cruz insists on a reputation for such behavior.

Your opinion only! I have worked in VERY large organizations where candor and clarity of positions was very much a feature of the culture and it worked VERY well for us!

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To date no fellow Senators have supported him, so he must resort to clowns and entertainment professionals like Beck and Levin.

You see that as a negative but others, myself included, see it as very much a positive!

Bigun · « **Reply #28 on:** February 04, 2016, 07:56:46 pm »

Thanks Katz for the excellent summation!

You and I both know what is going on here and that is all I intend to say on the matter in this thread.

flowers · « **Reply #29 on:** February 04, 2016, 08:05:01 pm »

Quote from: alicewonders on February 04, 2016, 02:53:51 am

May I put my two cents worth in?

Cruz is being left alone on this issue right now because the establishment is using him to try to take Trump out. He should understand that if that were to happen - HE would be enemy #1 just like he was during the last Fox debate with Megyn asking the gotcha questions and then backtracking after the debate when the damage was already done.

Of course, Cruz is happy to do this - he is running to win, after all.

But, should he become the nominee - and I'm sure the Democrats are giggling about this - THEN - an all out assault will be launched in the courts of every state in this country - challenging his eligibility. This will take him down and we will have to bow at the throne of Hillary! the Whore of Babylon.

Anyone disagree with me?

I agree...notice how it is off the radar of msm of late. they never stop with anything they do.

Bigun · « **Reply #30 on:** February 04, 2016, 08:10:25 pm »

Quote from: alicewonders on February 04, 2016, 02:53:51 am

May I put my two cents worth in?

Cruz is being left alone on this issue right now because the establishment is using him to try to take Trump out. He should understand that if that were to happen - HE would be enemy #1 just like he was during the last Fox debate with Megyn asking the gotcha questions and then backtracking after the debate when the damage was already done.

Of course, Cruz is happy to do this - he is running to win, after all.

But, should he become the nominee - and I'm sure the Democrats are giggling about this - THEN - an all out assault will be launched in the courts of every state in this country - challenging his eligibility. This will take him down and we will have to bow at the throne of Hillary! the Whore of Babylon.

Anyone disagree with me?

Yes! I strongly disagree that the democrats will go after Cruz on this because they KNOW if they do that and win it reeks havoc with the entire 8 year Obama reign!

flowers · « **Reply #31 on:** February 04, 2016, 08:19:42 pm »

Quote from: Bigun on February 04, 2016, 08:10:25 pm

Yes! I strongly disagree that the democrats will go after Cruz on this because they KNOW if they do that and win it reeks havoc with the entire 8 year Obama reign!

obama is golden. nothing will touch him or his legacy.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #32 on:** February 04, 2016, 08:34:56 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 04, 2016, 03:48:56 pm

And, we still have squat re: 0bama.

Irrelevant.

Sanguine · « **Reply #33 on:** February 04, 2016, 08:42:01 pm »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on February 04, 2016, 08:34:56 pm

Irrelevant.

If you think that, you missed the point.

alicewonders · « **Reply #34 on:** February 04, 2016, 08:42:18 pm »

Quote from: Bigun on February 04, 2016, 08:10:25 pm

Yes! I strongly disagree that the democrats will go after Cruz on this because they KNOW if they do that and win it reeks havoc with the entire 8 year Obama reign!

They don't play by the same rules we have to.

Jazzhead · « **Reply #35 on:** February 04, 2016, 09:05:59 pm »

This is just a silly issue. There are plenty of reasons to oppose Cruz but this isn't one of them.

American citizen mother = natural born son.

MACVSOG68 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 04, 2016, 09:20:29 pm »

Quote from: Bigun on February 04, 2016, 08:10:25 pm

Yes! I strongly disagree that the democrats will go after Cruz on this because they KNOW if they do that and win it reeks havoc with the entire 8 year Obama reign!

FWIW, there is a difference between the two. Obama was born in the US, while Cruz was born outside of US jurisdiction. Obama is a NBC by definition, while Cruz has to depend on the 1790 Act. Having said that, I believe Cruz meets the requirements because of the intent of the Founders and the usage of NBC at the time.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #37 on:** February 04, 2016, 09:20:59 pm »

Quote from: Jazzhead on February 04, 2016, 09:05:59 pm

This is just a silly issue. There are plenty of reasons to oppose Cruz but this isn't one of them.

American citizen mother = natural born son.

May I suggest that you read the (US) Constitution and existing law on this subject? The Internet is chock full of good resources. Why not read first and post declarative legal opinions second? This way we could have a real conversation, or dare I say "debate" on the issue.

Jazzhead · « **Reply #38 on:** February 04, 2016, 09:29:08 pm »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on February 04, 2016, 09:20:59 pm

May I suggest that you read the (US) Constitution and existing law on this subject? The Internet is chock full of good resources. Why not read first and post declarative legal opinions second? This way we could have a real conversation, or dare I say "debate" on the issue.

MACVSOG68's post above reflects my view as well. I don't think this is a serious Constitutional issue, just a not-so-serious political distraction for Cruz which is being pushed by his enemies. I'm not a Cruz supporter, so I have no dog in this hunt.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #39 on:** February 04, 2016, 09:37:33 pm »

Quote from: katzenjammer on February 04, 2016, 06:00:46 pm

Having read through the bulk of the Illinois Board of Elections Hearing

That is A LOT of information---wow, thanks.

But one question, Katz--does a board of elections render a legal declaratory judgment? (Really don't know)

Thanks.

NavyCanDo · « **Reply #40 on:** February 04, 2016, 09:47:35 pm »

After Trump drops out, and I predict he will, but it may not be until we know the delegate distribution at the convention, that this will not be an issue here. I don't think anyone here, even the most hardened Trump supporter will be still posting internet stories after July 21st that Cruz is not being qualified to run for President.
I may be wrong. There are a few who seem to be wishing for the demise of the Republican party, even if it means losing the election.

katzenjammer · « **Reply #41 on:** February 04, 2016, 10:28:13 pm »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on February 04, 2016, 09:37:33 pm

That is A LOT of information---wow, thanks.

But one question, Katz--does a board of elections render a legal declaratory judgment? (Really don't know)

Thanks.

No, their scope in this case is limited to ruling on whether a candidate can, or cannot, appear on a ballot (for a whole host of reasons).

In this case, they ruled that Mr. Cruz can appear on their presidential primary ballot.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #42 on:** February 05, 2016, 12:40:48 am »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 04, 2016, 08:42:01 pm

If you think that, you missed the point.

Hmmm..I may have. What was it?

Thanks.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #43 on:** February 05, 2016, 12:41:21 am »

Quote from: katzenjammer on February 04, 2016, 10:28:13 pm

No, their scope in this case is limited to ruling on whether a candidate can, or cannot, appear on a ballot (for a whole host of reasons).

In this case, they ruled that Mr. Cruz can appear on their presidential primary ballot.

Thanks.

Sanguine · « **Reply #44 on:** February 05, 2016, 01:20:15 am »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on February 05, 2016, 12:40:48 am

Hmmm..I may have. What was it?

Thanks.

The point being that we seem to have fairly easily accepted the 0bama creation myth, but if it's a conservative Republican we're going to tear him down ourselves.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #45 on:** February 05, 2016, 01:51:59 am »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 05, 2016, 01:20:15 am

The point being that we seem to have fairly easily accepted the 0bama creation myth, but if it's a conservative Republican we're going to tear him down ourselves.

I understand it feels that way .... but I don't think it was "accepted". People by and large are still angry that he's POTUS without proving his eligibility --especially considering the damage he's done.

The issue was buried...by all sides. The easy way out of the issue was chosen and embraced by democrat voters and lawmakers on both sides of the aisle.

I suspect the same route will be traveled for Cruz. And this troubles me deeply.

Fishrrman · « **Reply #46 on:** February 05, 2016, 02:32:59 am »

NavyCanDo wrote above (re Marco Rubio):
"1. Born in the US"

That alone isn't enough.
I could be wrong and am willing to be called on this, but I believe that neither of Rubio's parents were naturalized at the time of his birth. NOT CITIZENS of the United States.

This, too, disqualifies him as as "natural born citizen" in my opinion (which is of course worth nothing, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it).

Fishrrman · « **Reply #47 on:** February 05, 2016, 02:37:27 am »

Bigun wrote above:
"I strongly disagree that the democrats will go after Cruz on this because they KNOW if they do that and win it reeks havoc with the entire 8 year Obama reign!"

Bigun, you've been around in the political realm 'way more than I have, but of one thing I'm certain:

The democrats have no shame.
No matter how dirty their hands may be regarding a particular issue, they'll go after their opponents accusing them of the same dirt. And throwin' it in heaps of mudpies!

I predict that if Senator Cruz is on the ticket, in either position, the 'rats will launch ballot challenges in all fifty states with the District of Columbia thrown in for good measure.

Bigun · « **Reply #48 on:** February 05, 2016, 02:41:28 am »

Quote from: Fishrrman on February 05, 2016, 02:37:27 am

Bigun wrote above:
"I strongly disagree that the democrats will go after Cruz on this because they KNOW if they do that and win it reeks havoc with the entire 8 year Obama reign!"

Bigun, you've been around in the political realm 'way more than I have, but of one thing I'm certain:

The democrats have no shame.
No matter how dirty their hands may be regarding a particular issue, they'll go after their opponents accusing them of the same dirt. And throwin' it in heaps of mudpies!

I predict that if Senator Cruz is on the ticket, in either position, the 'rats will launch ballot challenges in all fifty states with the District of Columbia thrown in for good measure.

They had better be REALLY carefully with any such move or they will take down the entire 8 year reign of Obama in the process!

Sanguine · « **Reply #49 on:** February 05, 2016, 02:45:07 am »

Quote from: Bigun on February 05, 2016, 02:41:28 am

They had better be REALLY carefully with any such move or they will take down the entire 8 year reign of Obama in the process!

Yeah, that's my thought too.