Coulter: Cruz is not a natural born citizen

[DiogenesLamp]

This issue was brought before the courts in a couple of different states and they ruled that he IS eligible to be on the ballot to run for POTUS.

They made no ruling on Ted Cruz.  The Bellei decision would worry me if this ever did get to a federal court. 

Various state courts made various stupid rulings about Barack Obama,  most of which were just dodging the question.   

I highly doubt this issue will ever go before the SCOTUS.  Time to move on.

It may be time to move on,   but it doesn't change anything regarding what is the objective truth. 

[Taxcontrol]

.....

Natural citizens do not need a statute to make them into a citizen.   They are inherently a citizen.   
.....

Incorrect.
Per Title 8 Section 1401 subsection (a)
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

Those born in the US are US citizens because The People via Constitutional Amendment and Congress via the aforementioned says that they are citizens at birth - it is done by an act of Congress.

[DiogenesLamp]

Again, looking at a single case is a mistake as later cases can change them.   No offense but I've read too many reviews from lawyers who are experts in immigration.

Lawyers quote what is accepted as law by the legal community.   They don't go to the trouble to research it themselves and see if certain decisions in history were decided correctly,   or if they have been misinterpreted.   They just don't.   


They will simply tell you what is the modern consensus on a point whether it is factually or historically accurate or not.   They simply tell you what other "experts"  think,  and few if any of these "experts"  know what they are talking about either.   

But they do know how courts are likely to rule,   because the lawyers presiding in these courts got the same wrong information that everyone else did.   

For example,   the Supreme court said the 14th amendment requires the legalization of abortion and homosexuality.    This is now the current consensus on the law.   Is it correct?   Not at all. 

A naval base is not US soil.   Only an embassy is considered US soil.   My son was born overseas and I have a bit of personal experience with this subject.

Whether you follow the Vattel explanation for citizenship,  or the English Common law explanation of citizenship,   both grant natural born citizen/subject status to the children of military born over seas.   


If modern law does not do this,   then this is just another example of how the law has gotten away from it's roots.   

[DiogenesLamp]

Incorrect.
Per Title 8 Section 1401 subsection (a)
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

Those born in the US are US citizens because The People via Constitutional Amendment and Congress via the aforementioned says that they are citizens at birth - it is done by an act of Congress.

What part of the US Constitution is that in?    Because if it is in anything subsequent to the US Constitution,  it cannot override the meaning and intent of what the Constitution itself says.   

The meaning of the US constitution can only be changed through amendment.   Acts of congress can't do it. 

[libertybele]

They made no ruling on Ted Cruz.  The Bellei decision would worry me if this ever did get to a federal court. 

Various state courts made various stupid rulings about Barack Obama,  most of which were just dodging the question.   

It may be time to move on,   but it doesn't change anything regarding what is the objective truth.

Again, the 'truth' of the matter is this issue was decided by the courts ruling that he was eligible to be on the ballot and run for POTUS; it doesn't get much clearer than that.

[Emjay]

You do realize this article is from January 2016.  Yes?

@Emjay

No, I just jumped in on page 108.  But thanx.

[Right_in_Virginia]

No, I just jumped in on page 108.  But thanx.

I only asked @Emjay because your comment "Ann Coulter cannot give up her faded attempt to become relevant again" doesn't make sense if one knows the article being discussed is two years old.   

[kevindavis007]

Cruz is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Obama is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN and BORN IN HAWAII (unless Trump has proof saying otherwise).


Can we stop this birth crap...

[driftdiver]

Cruz is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Obama is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN and BORN IN HAWAII (unless Trump has proof saying otherwise).


Can we stop this birth crap...

As I recall Obamas mother wasn't 18 when he was born.   Which was a requirement under the law at the time.

[libertybele]

As I recall Obamas mother wasn't 18 when he was born.   Which was a requirement under the law at the time.

???? you have to be 18 in order to qualify as a U.S. citizen giving birth?  Link please.

[libertybele]

As I recall Obamas mother wasn't 18 when he was born.   Which was a requirement under the law at the time.

???? you have to be 18 in order to qualify as a U.S. citizen giving birth?  Link please.

[DiogenesLamp]

Again, the 'truth' of the matter is this issue was decided by the courts ruling that he was eligible to be on the ballot and run for POTUS; it doesn't get much clearer than that.

Have you read the court rulings?  I have.   They mostly reject plaintiff's claims on the basis of "lack of standing."   Those that did get through the "standing"  obstacle,  lost on numerous ridiculous grounds of made up nonsense. 


In one of the court cases,  (Georgia,  I think)  the Judge ruled that state officials had no obligation to verify the qualifications of a candidate for office.   They could do so if they wished,  but the public could not force them to do so if they didn't want to do so. 


Utter crap.   

[DiogenesLamp]

Cruz is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Obama is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN and BORN IN HAWAII (unless Trump has proof saying otherwise).

This is another data point to reinforce my already decided opinion regarding you.   


Not even wrong.   

[DiogenesLamp]

As I recall Obamas mother wasn't 18 when he was born.   Which was a requirement under the law at the time.

Only if he was born outside the jurisdiction of the United States.   If he was born inside the jurisdiction of the US,  his mother's age is irrelevant.   


Again,  this "age requirement"  is another example of conditional citizenship.   One cannot be a citizen if all these other conditions are not met. 


This is not natural citizenship.   

[Bigun]

Allow me to present a logic flow.

The supreme authority in the United State is the People who, via the Constitution have defined the rules of governance.  As such, the Constitution is the highest legal authority and delegates the authority of governance in very specific manner.  Some authority is given to the courts, others to the legislature, and others still, to the executive (President).

The Constitution requires that the President be a "Natural born citizen", however, the Constitution does not detail what qualifies as an NBC.

The Constitution does however, vest ALL authority over "the rules of naturalization" with Congress, via Article I, section 8.  This authority is exclusive (no authority given to the Courts or to the Executive branch) to Congress AND IS WITHOUT RESTRICTION.

Thus, it is up to Congress to establish the definition of who needs to be naturalized and who does not.  Naturalization is an act that only occurs after birth.  If a person is born a citizen (citizen at birth) they are naturally born a citizen.  One of the first Acts of Congress addresses the fact that children born abroad or over the sea, are citizens at birth and are to be the same as natural born citizens.  That act has been repealed and replaced several times.

The current will of Congress regarding who is born a citizen of the United States is expressed in USC title 8 section 1401 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401.  Under subsection G:

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and

...Sen Cruz was born a US citizen and qualified as such via his mother.

@Taxcontrol @Sanguine @DiogenesLamp

Persons naturalized according to these acts, are entitled to all the rights of natural born citizens, except, first, that they cannot be elected as representatives in congress until seven years, thereafter. Secondly, nor can they be elected senators of the United States, until nine years thereafter. Thirdly, they are forever incapable of being chosen to the office of president of the United States.[/u] Persons naturalized before the adoption of the constitution, it is presumed, have all the capacities of natural born citizens. See C. U. S. Art. 1, 2.

The work from which that is quoted was THE law book in every school of law in the United States for a VERY long time and is still in very wide use to this very day.  The author (St. George Tucker) is talking about all of the Naturalization acts congress had passed up to the publication of this work (6 volumes of it) and what he says there is still just as true today as it was when he said it.

If you need ANY act of Congress to become a citizen then you are not a "Natural Born" Citizen as the founders understood that term.

I will use myself as an example.  I was born in the United States to two citizen parents.  My citizenship is granted (by nature) owing to the place of my birth (jus soli), and the undivided loyalties of my citizen parents (jus sanguinis), under the sole governance of the United States Constitution.  That is, my citizenship does not depend on the existence of any statutory actions taken by the US Congress (nor can it ever be constrained by such); hence I am a natural born citizen.

Further, SCOTUS has never applied the term "natural born citizen" to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

"The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens."[/I]

Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)

"At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, "

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

"(A)ll children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

[Sanguine]

Cruz is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Obama is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN and BORN IN HAWAII (unless Trump has proof saying otherwise).


Can we stop this birth crap...

And, we have circled back to the beginning:  was Barack Hussein 0bama born in Hawaii?

[Bigun]

Cruz is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Obama is a natural born citizen since his mother was an AMERICAN CITIZEN and BORN IN HAWAII (unless Trump has proof saying otherwise).

@kevindavis

Nope!

Can we stop this birth crap...

Absolutely!  As soon as you get it right!

[jpsb]

@DiogenesLamp

McLame was born in Panama, is he a NBC?

At the time of McCains' birth the Panama Canal zone was a US Territory so McCain had an American
citizen father and was born on US soil. Natural born citizen. Notice I made no mention of the mothers'
citizenship. Up until 1936 (1922 in certain cases) females could not pass citizenship only males could.

[jpsb]

This issue was brought before the courts in a couple of different states and they ruled that he IS eligible to be on the ballot to run for POTUS.  I highly doubt this issue will ever go before the SCOTUS.  Time to move on.

The courts no longer follow our constitution. Abortion, same sex marriage, property forfeitures, warrantless
searches, etc. In practical terms yes Cruz can probably run. But those of us that still believe in our
Constitution will never vote for another Obama. (Not an NBC).

[aligncare]

This issue was brought before the courts in a couple of different states and they ruled that he IS eligible to be on the ballot to run for POTUS.  I highly doubt this issue will ever go before the SCOTUS.  Time to move on.

Yes, that would be nice.

However, if a future Senator Cruz should declare a run for president it’s guaranteed the democrats will not move on regarding this sticky NBC issue.

The dems will make plenty of hay and frankly I’m not willing to take a chance on Ted Cruz winning that argument.

Why would we knowingly choose a handicapped candidate going in? I’m just not that into him to take that chance.

[Sanguine]

Yes, that would be nice.

However, if a future Senator Cruz should declare a run for president it’s guaranteed the democrats will not move on regarding this sticky NBC issue.

The dems will make plenty of hay and frankly I’m not willing to take a chance on Ted Cruz winning that argument.

Why would we knowingly choose a handicapped candidate going in? I’m just not that into him to take that chance.

Your solicitude is noted. 

 

[jpsb]

Incorrect.
Per Title 8 Section 1401 subsection (a)
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

Those born in the US are US citizens because The People via Constitutional Amendment and Congress via the aforementioned says that they are citizens at birth - it is done by an act of Congress.

So prior to the 14th there were no US citizens? And it takes a lot more then just Congress
to amend the constitution. The 14th was NOT an act of Congress.

[driftdiver]

At the time of McCains' birth the Panama Canal zone was a US Territory so McCain had an American
citizen father and was born on US soil. Natural born citizen. Notice I made no mention of the mothers'
citizenship. Up until 1936 (1922 in certain cases) females could not pass citizenship only males could.

@jpsb
At the time of his birth the Panama Canal Zone was a UN-incorporated US territory.   Which means it was not subject to the US constitution.  Otherwise every person born in the zone would have been a US citizen.

No he is a citizen because his father was a citizen and was in the military assigned to the canal zone.

[txradioguy]

So prior to the 14th there were no US citizens? And it takes a lot more then just Congress
to amend the constitution. The 14th was NOT an act of Congress.

By your twisted interpretation...Trump shouldn't be President.

[txradioguy]

Thank you for that brilliant insight into this discussion on American citizenship law.   We look forward to your future contributions on the topic and we expect they will meet and possibly exceed your currently displayed mastery of the material.

Considering the fact that this thing has been dissected and autopsied 6 ways from Sunday...and given the predictable knee jerk response from some quarters here...my comment on this whole stupid mess is about what this stupid thread deserves.