Author Topic: No, Donald Trump Won't Win  (Read 1153 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« on: December 04, 2015, 03:44:39 pm »
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/opinion/no-donald-trump-wont-win.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

No, Donald Trump Won’t Win

DEC. 4, 2015 

David Brooks

A little while ago I went rug shopping. Four rugs were laid out on the floor and among them was one with a pink motif that was dazzlingly beautiful. It was complex and sophisticated. If you had asked me at that moment which rug I wanted, I would have said the pink one.

This conviction lasted about five minutes. But then my mentality flipped and I started asking some questions. Would the furniture go with this rug? Would this rug clash with the wall hangings? Would I get tired of its electric vibrancy?

Suddenly a subtler and more prosaic blue rug grabbed center stage. The rugs had not changed, but suddenly I wanted the blue rug. The pink rug had done an excellent job of being eye-popping on its own. The blue rug was doing an excellent job of being a rug I could enjoy living with.


For many Republicans, Donald Trump is their pink rug. He does the job that they want done at this moment. He reflects their disgust with the political establishment. He gives them the pleasurable sensation that somebody can come to Washington, kick some tail and shake things up.

But decision-making is a journey, not an early December snapshot. It goes in stages.

The campaign may seem old, but we are still in the casual attention stage. Every four years pollsters ask Iowa and New Hampshire voters when they made up their minds. Roughly 70 or 80 percent make up their minds in the final month of the race. Up until then they are busy with life and work and just glancing at the campaign. If you ask them which candidate they support, that question may generate an answer, but that doesn’t mean they are actually committed to electing the name they happen to utter.

Over at the FiveThirtyEight blog, Nate Silver looked at campaign-related Google searches in past years in the weeks before the Iowa caucuses. Until a week or two before the caucuses very few people are doing any serious investigations of the candidates. Then just before and after the caucuses voters get engaged and Google searches surge.

Silver produced a chart showing what this year’s polling would look like if we actually took the current levels of casual attention and uncertainty seriously. In that chart “Undecided” had 80 percent support. Trump had 5 percent support; Carson, 4; Cruz, 3; and Rubio, 2.

That’s about the best description of where the Republican race is right now.

Just because voters aren’t making final decisions doesn’t mean they are passive. They’re in the dressing room. They’re trying on different outfits. Most of them are finding they like a lot of different conflicting choices.

Human beings have multiple selves. The mind dances from this module to that module. When Montaigne tried to describe his mind, he wrote, “I cannot keep my subject still. It goes along befuddled and staggering, with a natural drunkenness.” In one mood Trump seems pretty attractive to some people. In another it’s Carson, or Cruz or Rubio.


But in the final month the mentality shifts. The question is no longer, What shiny object makes me feel good? The question is, Who do I need at this moment to do the job? Different sorts of decision-making styles kick in.

For example, there are two contrasting types of decision-making mentalities, maximizing and satisficing. If you’re choosing a marriage partner, you probably want to maximize. You want to find the very best person you are totally in love with. You’ll need that passion to fuse you two together so you can survive the tough times. You want somebody who can inspire and be a messenger to your best future.

But politics is not like that. Politics is a prosaic activity most of the time. You probably want to satisfice, pick the person who’s good enough, who seems reasonably responsible.

When campaigns enter that final month, voters tend to gravitate toward the person who seems most orderly. As the primary season advances, voters’ tolerance for risk declines. They focus on the potential downsides of each contender and wonder, Could this person make things even worse?

When this mental shift happens, I suspect Trump will slide. All the traits that seem charming will suddenly seem risky. The voters’ hopes for transformation will give way to a fear of chaos. When the polls shift from registered voters to likely voters, cautious party loyalists will make up a greater share of those counted.

The voting booth focuses the mind. The experience is no longer about self-expression and feeling good in the moment. It’s about the finger on the nuclear trigger for the next four years. In an era of high anxiety, I doubt Republican voters will take a flyer on their party’s future — or their  children's future.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2015, 03:48:10 pm »
Yawn. Another day, another round of the drama of unhinged obsessed bile and venom.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Scottftlc

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2015, 03:53:44 pm »
NY Times!  They still think it was workplace violence brought on by insults from a Jewish guy.

If it's in the Times, it's not fit to print.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

...Bob Dylan

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2015, 03:59:41 pm »
Yawn. Another day, another round of the drama of unhinged obsessed bile and venom.

There's no bile or venom in this article.  It is considered and thoughtful.

And, hopefully, true.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline aligncare

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2015, 04:02:18 pm »

Well, at this point, it is wishful thinking. Shall we review?

Donald Trump entered the race 6 mos ago on top of the GOP field and has never fallen from that position.

Every GOP candidate who was in the lead the summer before election year has gone on to win the nomination.

36% in a field of 12 is an overwhelming lead.

Donald Trump's support is coalescing, picking up support from other candidates' supporters as those candidates lose their mojo.

Marco Rubio doesn't stand a chance to catch up; Jeb Bush is finished as a serious candidate.

In conclusion, Donald Trump is not fading from the scene, he is only growing stronger.

And that, folks, is your reality lesson for today.

Offline Relic

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2015, 04:08:21 pm »
I used to think Trump had no chance. That, as with most elections, the fringe candidate would fade as the real election came into focus.

If these terror attacks continue, Americans will seek out someone who promises to defend us. Whether or not Trump is the right guy for that, he has been most vocal about defending America.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2015, 04:12:34 pm »
There's no bile or venom in this article.  It is considered and thoughtful.

And, hopefully, true.

But not very well reasoned. He doesn't understand the body politic, certainly not the GOP side, particularly at the moment. His assumptions sound great, but are not real world.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 04:13:03 pm by Free Vulcan »
The Republic is lost.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2015, 04:20:55 pm »
Well, at this point, it is wishful thinking. Shall we review?

Donald Trump entered the race 6 mos ago on top of the GOP field and has never fallen from that position.

Every GOP candidate who was in the lead the summer before election year has gone on to win the nomination.

36% in a field of 12 is an overwhelming lead.

Donald Trump's support is coalescing, picking up support from other candidates' supporters as those candidates lose their mojo.

Marco Rubio doesn't stand a chance to catch up; Jeb Bush is finished as a serious candidate.

In conclusion, Donald Trump is not fading from the scene, he is only growing stronger.

And that, folks, is your reality lesson for today.

Every GOP candidate who was in the lead the summer before election year has gone on to win the nomination.

Not true. Rudy Guiliani led in the summer of 2007 and did not win the nomination.

Each of the top four candidates are benefitting from erosion at the bottom, not just Trump. 

As to the latest poll, the margin of error is 4.5%, which is huge.  The reason the margin of error is huge is because the number of Republicans and Republican leaning independents is 445, which is a very small sample.  With a margin that high, Cruz could be as high as 21% and Trump could be as low as 31%, which is a 10 point spread and is much more in line with other polls.

It is also not true that Rubio has no chance. In some polls, he's number 2. 

So, Trump has a lead, it's not near as big as CNN says it is, and he is not inevitable as the nominee.

THAT is your instruction in reality today.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2015, 04:21:54 pm »
When you live in the Leftist Media bubble world of "Imaginary", you can make up any reality you chose to believe.

Pity for the poor deluded Leftists, and their water carriers around the internet, is the real world does not work the way their bubble world of "Imaginary" does.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2015, 04:23:15 pm »
But not very well reasoned. He doesn't understand the body politic, certainly not the GOP side, particularly at the moment. His assumptions sound great, but are not real world.

LOL.  He understands the "body politic" as well or better than you, I'm sure.

Trump supporters assume that as other candidates fade, he will pick up their supporters.  That's not true; if these people were inclined to Trump, he would already have them.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2015, 04:27:09 pm »
LOL.  He understands the "body politic" as well or better than you, I'm sure.

Trump supporters assume that as other candidates fade, he will pick up their supporters.  That's not true; if these people were inclined to Trump, he would already have them.

He does NOT understand Iowa Republicans better than me, I can guarantee you that.

As far as Trump picking up supporters of faded candidates, that's 50/50 at worst.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 04:30:40 pm by Free Vulcan »
The Republic is lost.

Offline ABX

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2015, 04:31:33 pm »
I used to think Trump had no chance. That, as with most elections, the fringe candidate would fade as the real election came into focus.

If these terror attacks continue, Americans will seek out someone who promises to defend us. Whether or not Trump is the right guy for that, he has been most vocal about defending America.

My opinion of Trump hasn't changed, but I do believe that a lot of people are looking for someone who is basically a big middle finger, society isn't ready for a statesman right now, they want President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.




Offline Relic

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2015, 04:35:30 pm »
My opinion of Trump hasn't changed, but I do believe that a lot of people are looking for someone who is basically a big middle finger, society isn't ready for a statesman right now, they want President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.

I agree. Idiocracy has gone from being an odd movie to becoming prophesy.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2015, 04:36:58 pm »
He does NOT understand Iowa Republicans better than me, I can guarantee you that.

As far as Trump picking up supporters of faded candidates, that's 50/50 at worst.

The winner of Iowa caucuses does not always go on to win the nomination.  Iowa is predictive of nothing.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2015, 04:39:24 pm »
My opinion of Trump hasn't changed, but I do believe that a lot of people are looking for someone who is basically a big middle finger, society isn't ready for a statesman right now, they want President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.



I think you're not too far from right about that! 

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2015, 04:53:50 pm »
Well yes, it is idiocy to look at the economic, social, political mess the USA is in today and then decide "gee we need to send another bought and paid for career political drone to DC in 2016 to keep doing the same things the rabidly corrupt, defiantly incompetent DC crowd has been doing for the last 27 years that created this current cesspool."

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2015, 05:11:51 pm »
The winner of Iowa caucuses does not always go on to win the nomination.  Iowa is predictive of nothing.

Which is a pointless statement, and does not address anything I said. Even so, Iowa does two things: picks out the conservative favorite, and weeds out the wannabes. New Hampshire picks out the establishment candidate and highlights those candidates which have real financial legs beyond Iowa.

South Carolina is where the contest starts for real, but that doesn't negate Iowa's and New Hampshire's role in the process. You don't understand the process, which is why you jump the shark so much.
The Republic is lost.

Offline aligncare

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2015, 05:12:19 pm »
Well yes, it is idiocy to look at the economic, social, political mess the USA is in today and then decide "gee we need to send another bought and paid for career political drone to DC in 2016 to keep doing the same things the rabidly corrupt, defiantly incompetent DC crowd has been doing for the last 27 years that created this current cesspool."

Exactly. Read the Robert Gates editorial. He calls for more of the same political pablum. Just what we need one more pliable candidate groomed by establishment puppet masters. This is the year people are voting against that.

Despite the bold prediction in the headline, Donald Trump is on the way to the nomination.

Offline ABX

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2015, 06:28:26 pm »
Well yes, it is idiocy to look at the economic, social, political mess the USA is in today and then decide "gee we need to send another bought and paid for career political drone to DC in 2016 to keep doing the same things the rabidly corrupt, defiantly incompetent DC crowd has been doing for the last 27 years that created this current cesspool."

Yep, we'll send the bought and paid for politicians a message by electing the guy buying and paying for politicians.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2015, 06:34:48 pm »
If Trump is just another Donor Class scion, why is the GOP Establishment in such utter fear of him? They all should be welcoming him with open arms as one of their own.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 06:35:27 pm by GAJohnnie »

Offline aligncare

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2015, 06:36:20 pm »
Yep, we'll send the bought and paid for politicians a message by electing the guy buying and paying for politicians.

Could you be more specific with this charge you are making?

Otherwise, this is just artful but meaningless hyperbole.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 06:41:47 pm by aligncare »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2015, 06:38:35 pm »
Which is a pointless statement, and does not address anything I said. Even so, Iowa does two things: picks out the conservative favorite, and weeds out the wannabes. New Hampshire picks out the establishment candidate and highlights those candidates which have real financial legs beyond Iowa.

South Carolina is where the contest starts for real, but that doesn't negate Iowa's and New Hampshire's role in the process. You don't understand the process, which is why you jump the shark so much.

I understand the process. What happened to Rick Santorum, Pat Buchanan and Pat Robertson, former Iowa caucus winners?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2015, 06:40:16 pm »
Yep, we'll send the bought and paid for politicians a message by electing the guy buying and paying for politicians.

That about sums up Trump. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2015, 06:45:53 pm »
The winner of Iowa caucuses does not always go on to win the nomination.  Iowa is predictive of nothing.
On that I agree. The last two winners of Iowa were Huckabee and Santorum.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline alicewonders

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Re: No, Donald Trump Won't Win
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 06:46:23 pm »
If Trump is just another Donor Class scion, why is the GOP Establishment in such utter fear of him? They all should be welcoming him with open arms as one of their own.

That's a very good point you make, Johnnie.

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!