Donald Trump: You have to take out terrorists families

[libertybele]

I can see both sides of the argument. But in this case, I think you have identified the situation, and the only possible outcomes. Either fight them, with all we have, or capitulate and eventually be extinguished. I'm old, but I once promised to give this country my all, up to and including my life. I am in for this fight, when it comes to pass.

   I for one love this Country, support its Constitution and am willing to defend it against all enemies.

[aligncare]

  I for one love this Country, support its Constitution and am willing to defend it against all enemies.

Exactly. Not all cultures are equal. American (and western) culture is far superior to all comers.

Political correctness is dangerous to American freedom and human equality.

[Scottftlc]

Political correctness will literally destroy this nation. We are seeing some of that today...and when Obama speaks, he will drive the dagger a bit deeper.

[Relic]

Political correctness will literally destroy this nation. We are seeing some of that today...and when Obama speaks, he will drive the dagger a bit deeper.

Obama is merely a symptom. The self censoring, fawning media is more to blame.

We all have some culpability in abandoning our schools and allowing leftists to indoctrinate huge numbers of American young.

[EC]

We all have some culpability in abandoning our schools and allowing leftists to indoctrinate huge numbers of American young.

Why I rarely complain about millenials/Gen Xers. After all, we raised them.

[Relic]

Why I rarely complain about millenials/Gen Xers. After all, we raised them.

Exactly. My kids, 3 of them, are grown, and pretty level headed. However, I saw the school system drifting left, and figured I'd get my kids through it safely. I didn't recognize the bigger threat.

[Bigun]

I apologize, Relic.

Wow! SO heartfelt an apology! /s

[aligncare]

Wow! SO heartfelt an apology! /s

We are all basically anonymous here. I don't understand why some are so invested in their egos.

[EC]

Exactly. My kids, 3 of them, are grown, and pretty level headed. However, I saw the school system drifting left, and figured I'd get my kids through it safely. I didn't recognize the bigger threat.

Same. Even became a teacher for 10 years, but the rot had spread too far. 

[andy58-in-nh]

andy wrote above:
"We did not specifically target residential civilian neighborhoods. Our bombers targeted rail lines, bridges, roadways, government buildings, power stations, troop and material transport vehicles. Many of these were co-located in civilian areas. But as a matter of historical record, America manifestly did not set about to indiscriminately bomb civilian targets, for example the way that Germany did to London and Coventry in 1940."

One word, one city:
Dresden.

I cited both Dresden and Tokyo in my previous post; perhaps you missed it.

We bombed the living crap out of both, but the purpose was not to terrorize and wantonly target civilians. There were numerous legitimate targets of vital military importance co-located within civilian population centers, with whose governments we happened to be at war.  The Nazis, on the other hand, aimed bombers and V2 rockets directly at civilian targets in England because they, like ISIS, were indiscriminately evil bastards.

So, I am entirely in favor of doing whatever we have to do to kill as many jihadis as possible, as quickly as possible. But the first step has to be the recognition on the part of our government that we are in fact at war with them. And that of course will never happen as long as Obama is President.

[Relic]

I cited both Dresden and Tokyo in my previous post; perhaps you missed it.

We bombed the living crap out of both, but the purpose was not to terrorize and wantonly target civilians. There were numerous legitimate targets of vital military importance co-located within civilian population centers, with whose governments we happened to be at war.  The Nazis, on the other hand, aimed bombers and V2 rockets directly at civilian targets in England because they, like ISIS, were indiscriminately evil bastards.

So, I am entirely in favor of doing whatever we have to do to kill as many jihadis as possible, as quickly as possible. But the first step has to be the recognition on the part of our government that we are in fact at war with them. And that of course will never happen as long as Obama is President.

I watched WWII in HD on H2 last night. We did bomb Berlin, and according to this program, the purpose of the bombing of Berlin was to scare and kill Germans. Not military targets, per se, but Germans.

[Carling]

andy wrote above:
"We did not specifically target residential civilian neighborhoods. Our bombers targeted rail lines, bridges, roadways, government buildings, power stations, troop and material transport vehicles. Many of these were co-located in civilian areas. But as a matter of historical record, America manifestly did not set about to indiscriminately bomb civilian targets, for example the way that Germany did to London and Coventry in 1940."

One word, one city:
Dresden.

Two more cities

Hiroshima
Nagasaki

[andy58-in-nh]

I watched WWII in HD on H2 last night. We did bomb Berlin, and according to this program, the purpose of the bombing of Berlin was to scare and kill Germans. Not military targets, per se, but Germans.

That's a tremendous program - I've seen only a few parts but it was visually stunning. I am surprised at the conclusion about the purpose of the Berlin bombing, since my recollection (fuzzy though it may be) was that our crews targeted the Reichstag as well as every other Nazi government building they could reach from altitude.

[Relic]

That's a tremendous program - I've seen only a few parts but it was visually stunning. I am surprised at the conclusion about the purpose of the Berlin bombing, since my recollection (fuzzy though it may be) was that our crews targeted the Reichstag as well as every other Nazi government building they could reach from altitude.

It was very interesting. There was a bombing run before Berlin that split off in 2 directions, one to get a ball bearing plant, and another to get manufacturing in another city. The real reason for the bombing raid was not so much the stated targets, but to draw out the Luftwaffe and destroy planes to deplete German airpower in advance of D-Day. So, the bombers were bait.

The attack on Berlin, whatever targets were given, was meant to scare and kill Germans. To demoralize them, also in advance of D-Day. The anti-aircraft fire was so intense, it was unlikely specific targets would be hit. There was no fighter engagement, our fighters couldn't make it that far. 

[GAJohnnie]

Same. Even became a teacher for 10 years, but the rot had spread too far. 

My two are in High School. That was a real eye opener. Even at a high school on the very edge of the Atlanta suburbs, I was stunned at how pervasive, and all encompassing, the rot has become. The average citizen has no idea how far down the rabbit hole our country is. The current hysterics on college campuses are merely the very tip of a large, ugly, growing iceberg.

[andy58-in-nh]

It was very interesting. There was a bombing run before Berlin that split off in 2 directions, one to get a ball bearing plant, and another to get manufacturing in another city. The real reason for the bombing raid was not so much the stated targets, but to draw out the Luftwaffe and destroy planes to deplete German airpower in advance of D-Day. So, the bombers were bait.

The attack on Berlin, whatever targets were given, was meant to scare and kill Germans. To demoralize them, also in advance of D-Day. The anti-aircraft fire was so intense, it was unlikely specific targets would be hit. There was no fighter engagement, our fighters couldn't make it that far.

Imagine being a crew member on one of those B-17s, going into a boiling sea of flak like that? Brave beyond words. I do know that we had fighter cover, especially once the P-51's came into wide service, and once our staging areas drew nearer to Berlin. At that point, our fighters had sufficient range and also the speed, maneuverability, and armament (six .50 cals) to take on what remained of the Luftwaffe.

I knew a few guys who were there, through my dad. Like most of their generation, they didn't talk about it much, but every now and then they'd give you little bits and pieces of the story and the look in their eyes told you everything else they weren't saying.

[Relic]

Imagine being a crew member on one of those B-17s, going into a boiling sea of flak like that? Brave beyond words. I do know that we had fighter cover, especially once the P-51's came into wide service, and once our staging areas drew nearer to Berlin. At that point, our fighters had sufficient range and also the speed, maneuverability, and armament (six .50 cals) to take on what remained of the Luftwaffe.

I knew a few guys who were there, through my dad. Like most of their generation, they didn't talk about it much, but every now and then they'd give you little bits and pieces of the story and the look in their eyes told you everything else they weren't saying.

Bravery, a sense of a greater purpose, and raw fear. It's why I find it so fascinating.

At the time of the first bombing run on Berlin, the P51s couldn't escort the bombers, we weren't close enough yet.

On the bombing run to hit the bearing plant, I'm straining to remember the numbers, but we lost something like 30 bombers. The Luftwaffe had 400 planes that they sent to engage, and the P51s downed over 150 of them.

They said that the Air Force lost 26,000 men in those battles, more than the Marines lost in all of WWII.

[Longiron]

You have a sick, and distorted imagination, and your lies are just stupid.

Yeah! And just what happened in CA was workplace violence? :patrio

[kevindavis007]

Yeah! And just what happened in CA was workplace violence? :patrio

Which was done by an American citizen who was born in Illinois. So if an American citizen commits an terrorist act, so it will be OK for this Government to kill family members who are also American citizens as well?

[Bigun]

Imagine being a crew member on one of those B-17s, going into a boiling sea of flak like that? Brave beyond words. I do know that we had fighter cover, especially once the P-51's came into wide service, and once our staging areas drew nearer to Berlin. At that point, our fighters had sufficient range and also the speed, maneuverability, and armament (six .50 cals) to take on what remained of the Luftwaffe.

I knew a few guys who were there, through my dad. Like most of their generation, they didn't talk about it much, but every now and then they'd give you little bits and pieces of the story and the look in their eyes told you everything else they weren't saying.

I have in my possession a copy of the hand written diary of one of those men. Can't get beyond the third page before my eyes are so clouded with tears I can read no further.  I am a Vietnam vet who has seen his share of horror and know that I have no concept of what REAL fear is!

[Free Vulcan]

Bluster.  Bullshit, like most of what he says.

Are you saying Trump is all talk and no do? He has a record of doing and not just talking about it, so what's the basis of your argument?

[andy58-in-nh]

Bravery, a sense of a greater purpose, and raw fear. It's why I find it so fascinating.

At the time of the first bombing run on Berlin, the P51s couldn't escort the bombers, we weren't close enough yet.

On the bombing run to hit the bearing plant, I'm straining to remember the numbers, but we lost something like 30 bombers. The Luftwaffe had 400 planes that they sent to engage, and the P51s downed over 150 of them.

They said that the Air Force lost 26,000 men in those battles, more than the Marines lost in all of WWII.

Among the remarkable achievements of our nation during WWII (back when we still believed we were a remarkable nation) was the ability to mount a thousand plane raid on Germany. That fact has always staggered me. You've seen a B-17, I imagine. It's a big bastard; not as big as the B-29 Superfortress that followed it into service, but big nonetheless. Now imagine craning your neck to look up at a sky filled with hundreds and hundred of those beasts, accompanied by fighter escorts. Imagine the sound. Just blows my mind.  And so as not to neglect our British allies, the RAF managed to pull off some pretty incredible raids over Berlin, primarily in late 1943, including many hundreds of Lancaster bombers.

[musiclady]

Yeah! And just what happened in CA was workplace violence? :patrio

Your ignorance and deceitful personal attacks are astounding.

Read what I said on the live thread on the shootings, you bald faced liar, and shut up.

You're an ignorant fool.

(And you may be a "patrio" but you certainly are NOT a patriot).

[Carling]

Which was done by an American citizen who was born in Illinois. So if an American citizen commits an terrorist act, so it will be OK for this Government to kill family members who are also American citizens as well?

You're purposely leaving out his new immigrant bride from Saudi Arabia.

You're now defending terrorists in order to bash Trump.

Have Trump Haters finally reached the sewer?  Is there going any lower than this garbage?

[Carling]

Since it was ignored the first time.

Hiroshima
Nagasaki